Jim Pohlad with Sid - is it really not about the money?

[Mike Sixel]

 

First off... I don't think this is simple PR as suggested by some.

 

I think Hartman called him, asked him questions and he answered those questions and then Hartman put the responses in a column. 

 

PR suggests that his message was crafted and circulated intentionally. I think it might be as simple as agreeing to talk with Sid. I'd be willing to bet that Sid has a little cred with the Pohlad's. 

 

I don't think anything surprising or outlandish was stated.

 

I fully believe that Money won't be the issue when it comes to trading for (example) Stroman... I Fully believe that the prospect price to acquire (example) Stroman will be the primary issue. The front office will have to be as prudent as possible while under pressure to upgrade and that will be a delicate dance. 

 

Regardless of where they rank specifically in payroll... The Twins will be in the same range as other clubs like Milwaukee and Cleveland. They will spend more when they are competing and less when they are not but there will be a certain range that all these teams belong to that will pull them forward and backward to the center as the years go by. 

 

Was Houston overly prudent the last couple years?

 

What is the point of minor league players and building a system that is deep, if you won't trade them when you are serious contenders?

 

And, it isn't to stay in contention forever, no team is built to be great without trading good to great prospects when they are competitive.

[darin617]

I'm too lazy to read the article. Simple facts are teams make a ton of money off of the playoffs. Look what KC's run did for them.

 

The old simple fact it takes money to make money as well as making trades to improve yourself. Look back at the last 5-8 years and look at any teams top 10 prospects from each year. How many of them turned out to be as great as everyone thought they would.

 

If you can get established players with more than 1 year of control it would be great.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Bingo. Groundhog's Day came early this year. Every year Pohlad says there's no budget constraints, and every year there's a new reason not to add to the budget. 2014-17 there were no budget constraints, but they were rebuilding so no reason to add to the budget. Now that they're rebuilt, there's no budget constraints but they don't want to trade prospects. There's always an underlying BUT after they say money is available.

You forgot that they can't spend right now because they need all that bankrolled $$ for extensions. The can is constantly being kicked down the road. 

 

I have to assume assume they'll do something at the deadline, and they obviously have no choice but to address the rotation in the offseason, but withholding cynicism or critique when it comes to the Pohlads spending to win reads as a coping mechanism in this thread. 

[Vanimal46]

You forgot that they can't spend right now because they need all that bankrolled $$ for extensions. The can is constantly being kicked down the road.

 

I have to assume assume they'll do something at the deadline, and they obviously have no choice but to address the rotation in the offseason, but withholding cynicism or critique when it comes to the Pohlads spending to win reads as a coping mechanism in this thread.

That's one of my favorites too... Gotta save that money for 2 years from now when (insert stud pitcher here) opts out of his contract*

 

*He does not opt out

[Battle ur tail off]

 

It's a business, it is about money. Now, whether that means there is money still to be spent, we'll see in three weeks or so. And this off season

 

And therein lies the problem with the Twins. To most every other other, it's not a business. It is a toy, a plaything for them to do as they wish. Of course they don't want to lose money all the time, but when there is a chance to win, most all teams go for it. Twins never have and likely never will. 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

I didn't catch that the first read. Who cares about the scoreboard? Yeah, I don't like that, why bring it up at all? It has nothing to do with payroll or the playoff push.

 

Well it shouldn't anyway. Maybe it was out of context, Syd was the interviewer after all.

 

An excuse. A reason for them to act as if they don't have money to spend when it is needed like now. Snakes. That the main reason people are still down on this club. Players are great, team is great. Ownership is, was, and always will be Penny pinching misers. 

[Don Walcott]

 

You forgot that they can't spend right now because they need all that bankrolled $$ for extensions. The can is constantly being kicked down the road. 

 

I have to assume assume they'll do something at the deadline, and they obviously have no choice but to address the rotation in the offseason, but withholding cynicism or critique when it comes to the Pohlads spending to win reads as a coping mechanism in this thread. 

Many of us need the coping mechanisms provided on TD. It's like free group therapy for otherwise anxious fans.

[nicksaviking]

 

An excuse. A reason for them to act as if they don't have money to spend when it is needed like now. Snakes. That the main reason people are still down on this club. Players are great, team is great. Ownership is, was, and always will be Penny pinching misers. 

 

But that's still not a reason, because there aren't financial issues at the deadline. Not this one anyway.

 

To me it sounds more like Pohlad doesn't understand the situation and is preemptively preparing his 'You get a scoreboard instead' consolation speech even though no one has clued him in that giving that quote was as irrelevant as giving Rutgar Hauer's 'Tears in the Rain' quote from Blade Runner instead.

[gunnarthor]

 

First off... I don't think this is simple PR as suggested by some.

 

I think Hartman called him, asked him questions and he answered those questions and then Hartman put the responses in a column. 

 

PR suggests that his message was crafted and circulated intentionally. I think it might be as simple as agreeing to talk with Sid. I'd be willing to bet that Sid has a little cred with the Pohlad's. 

 

I don't think anything surprising or outlandish was stated.

 

I fully believe that Money won't be the issue when it comes to trading for (example) Stroman... I Fully believe that the prospect price to acquire (example) Stroman will be the primary issue. The front office will have to be as prudent as possible while under pressure to upgrade and that will be a delicate dance. 

 

 

I disagree. I agree that Pohlad won't care if we make any trades where payroll doesn't go up and the FO itself will care a great deal about prospect cost for Stroman and maybe even explain that to Pohlad. But there is no way Pohlad won't let money be an issue for us to get a guy like DeGrom or Greinke or any other stud pitcher that isn't under a friendly team deal. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I didn't catch that the first read. Who cares about the scoreboard? Yeah, I don't like that, why bring it up at all? It has nothing to do with payroll or the playoff push.

 

Well it shouldn't anyway. Maybe it was out of context, Syd was the interviewer after all.

I didn't see it as a response to "you're not spending" but just another thing the team is working on regularly.

 

Whatever you say about the Twins and Pohlads, their continual upgrade and improvement of Target Field has been top-notch.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

I disagree. I agree that Pohlad won't care if we make any trades where payroll doesn't go up and the FO itself will care a great deal about prospect cost for Stroman and maybe even explain that to Pohlad. But there is no way Pohlad won't let money be an issue for us to get a guy like DeGrom or Greinke or any other stud pitcher that isn't under a friendly team deal. 

Yeah, that's how I read it too - Money isn't an issue if you trade for Boyd or Stoman because they make peauts, so it won't be an issue because they won't free up the dough for trading for Grienke, DeGrom, or Sale. It's not an isue if you don't ask

[Platoon]

http://www.startribune.com/twins-owner-jim-pohlad-fired-up-and-fearful-of-playoff-push/512687682/?refresh=true

 

It's a good read, and kind of a relief that if a newspaper with an editorial staff and a seasoned veteran pro writer can spell Thad Levine two different ways in the same article, I don't feel so bad if i screw it up every now and then....

 

On to the business of baseball: Is this just a PR piece? Or does the money really not matter as much in the second half of the year?

 

I would not have to even read it to know that this would be some form of butt kissing by Sid. That's all he has ever done, and all he will ever do!

[mickeymental]

i wish my name was daniel ponce de leon.

[nicksaviking]

 

I didn't see it as a response to "you're not spending" but just another thing the team is working on regularly.

 

Whatever you say about the Twins and Pohlads, their continual upgrade and improvement of Target Field has been top-notch.

 

I agree, it's a great field. But I'd rather they play in a dump if it meant they'd invest that scoreboard money on the roster instead.

 

I don't actually think it's an either or situation, I'm quite confident payroll and TF upgrades are under completely different auspices. But Pohlad doesn't do himself any favors by bringing it up when Hartman is asking him questions about the trade deadline and the playoffs.

 

Or maybe Syd just isn't doing Pohlad any favors by adding that blurb in an article he decided to title: Twins owner Jim Pohlad fired up - and fearful - of playoff push

 

But regardless where the failure of context lies, I think it brings up a fair point. Why do the Twins think they have to stay within their payroll lane in terms of market size, but are OK to join the elite organizations when it comes to facilities?

[Vanimal46]

Why do the Twins think they have to stay within their payroll lane in terms of market size, but are OK to join the elite organizations when it comes to facilities?

That describes 75% of start up companies here in Austin... We'll pay you poorly, but hey, we have ping pong and a beer tap available! When do you want to start?

[darin617]

 

And therein lies the problem with the Twins. To most every other other, it's not a business. It is a toy, a plaything for them to do as they wish. Of course they don't want to lose money all the time, but when there is a chance to win, most all teams go for it. Twins never have and likely never will. 

 

People need to give them a break. You know how much money they spent to buy this franchise...

 

 

Or wait, they didn't spend anything they inherited it and are doing their father proud being so cheap. It's sad with the payroll where it's at they are still most likely clearing $100M a year. Spend a little more and you would get more fans in the state's stadium that was built and paid for you. You could make even more money if the team would keep making the playoffs and going further than just 1 round every time.

[darin617]

 

I didn't see it as a response to "you're not spending" but just another thing the team is working on regularly.

 

Whatever you say about the Twins and Pohlads, their continual upgrade and improvement of Target Field has been top-notch.

Does that mean they found a way to get the taxpayers to pay for the improvements, or do they need a massive tax write off everytime they upgrade somthing???

[Riverbrian]

 

Was Houston overly prudent the last couple years?

 

What is the point of minor league players and building a system that is deep, if you won't trade them when you are serious contenders?

 

And, it isn't to stay in contention forever, no team is built to be great without trading good to great prospects when they are competitive.

 

Question #1 - Yes Houston has been. They've hung on to Tucker and Whitley. Traded others down the list. I think Minnesota will do the same. Hang on to Lewis, Kiriloff, Maybe even Graterol and trade players from 4 on down. But, who knows... we will have to see what they do.  

 

Question #2 - I think they will trade prospects. I think they will be prudent but they will trade prospects. 

 

Sentence #3 - Many ways to skin a cat. I don't think prudence means they can't go for it. There are varied degrees between hot and cold. 

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Does that mean they found a way to get the taxpayers to pay for the improvements, or do they need a massive tax write off everytime they upgrade somthing???

It doesn't matter. They're maintaining the ballpark and improving it at a level most other franchises don't even bother to think about, much less accomplish.

 

Give credit where it's due. The team is doing a wonderful job of managing one of the better parks in baseball.

[nicksaviking]

That describes 75% of start up companies here in Austin... We'll pay you poorly, but hey, we have ping pong and a beer tap available! When do you want to start?

The Twins would be thrilled if we all considered them a start up company in need of grants, pro bono work and every bit of public financial assistance available.

[Riverbrian]

 

I disagree. I agree that Pohlad won't care if we make any trades where payroll doesn't go up and the FO itself will care a great deal about prospect cost for Stroman and maybe even explain that to Pohlad. But there is no way Pohlad won't let money be an issue for us to get a guy like DeGrom or Greinke or any other stud pitcher that isn't under a friendly team deal. 

 

Forget Pohlad... I'm not sure that I would want the Twins acquiring Greinke when you consider the contract that comes with it. So Yeah... if you want to go to the extreme end of the salary scale... Yeah... Money will be a consideration. If this was the last year of Greinke's contract... It may not be such an issue. 

 

Greinke would be scare the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers at this moment in time. Depending on how much money the D-Backs will eat. 

 

The nature of free agent contacts means you have to be willing to outbid the other teams comfort level. Greinke is already paid more than 29 other teams are willing to spend. This isn't a rental... this contract has a long length of term. 

[adorduan]

 

Keuchel was the obvious get in your opinion. Big difference there. Lots of us were lukewarm at best on Keuchel, myself included.

And if ownership is telling the baseball guys to go get a specific player, this franchise operates bass-ackwards. None of us should want that to happen.

 

I'm pretty confident the Keuchel decision was 100% Falvey and Levine. It aligns with their general modus operandi, especially because they didn't even make a half-assed offer to him. Everything points to them just not wanting him at all.

Don't look now, but he's been pretty good for the Braves and trending in the right direction...

[howeda7]

 

The money generally doesn't matter much in the second half. For example, Bumgarner, Smith, Stroman, Giles, and Wheeler are due only about 4, 1.5, 2.5, 2.1, and 2 million, respectively, over the last 2 months of this season.

Fortunately for Pohlad, there doesn't seem to be any big contracts on the trade market this year, like past cases of Verlander, Hamels, etc. The closest appears to be Greinke, and he already did Pohlad the favor of putting us on his no-trade list.

This. Anyone who thinks the Pohlads are going to stop Falvine from making a trade over these amounts is not being reasonable. It's on Falvine to pull the trigger.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Don't look now, but he's been pretty good for the Braves and trending in the right direction...

I'm not saying the guy won't be an okay pitcher but he's not the type of guy we've seen this front office pursue.

 

Also, his peripherals aren't good. Don't put too much stock in ERA, especially over a SSS.

[howeda7]

 

People need to give them a break. You know how much money they spent to buy this franchise...

 

 

Or wait, they didn't spend anything they inherited it and are doing their father proud being so cheap. It's sad with the payroll where it's at they are still most likely clearing $100M a year. Spend a little more and you would get more fans in the state's stadium that was built and paid for you. You could make even more money if the team would keep making the playoffs and going further than just 1 round every time.

You think the Pohlads are making $100 million per year off of the Twins? I assure you they're not. I don't know about their other businesses.

[amjgt]

You think the Pohlads are making $100 million per year off of the Twins? I assure you they're not. I don't know about their other businesses.

I think the original poster using the words “clear $100M per year” certainly makes it incorrect, but if you factor in that the value of the franchise likely goes up by more than 50M annually, you can get much closer to that 100M number.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm not saying the guy won't be an okay pitcher but he's not the type of guy we've seen this front office pursue.

 

Also, his peripherals aren't good. Don't put too much stock in ERA, especially over a SSS.

 

Plus, your ERA doesn't take a hit when your groundballs are routinely butchered by the left side of your infield.

[Vanimal46]

Plus, your ERA doesn't take a hit when your groundballs are routinely butchered by the left side of your infield.

What are you talking about?

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/33890-article-jorge-polanco’s-defensive-transformation/

[bird]

 

Keuchel was the obvious get in your opinion. Big difference there. Lots of us were lukewarm at best on Keuchel, myself included.

And if ownership is telling the baseball guys to go get a specific player, this franchise operates bass-ackwards. None of us should want that to happen.

 

 

1. If your MLB talent is bottom third, your payroll expenditures will be the same unless you're an absolute idiot as an owner...

 

2. ... or you have an out of control ego and are not financially accountable to anyone like the pizza guy in Detroit. Which I guess can turn you into an absolute idiot, I suppose.

 

3. The FO is accountable for exercising prudence. Perhaps Keuchel was viewed as imprudent?

 

4. Why do people insist on framing things as either/or? What proof are people sharing that ownership (it's not just Jim Pohlad) has or will reject a proposal to either spend more cash OR trade away prospect capital? That it has not happened is not proof that it won't. Past history is not always predictive of future results. Past reasons for financial restraint may be less relevant. We'll see.

 

5. Why the persistent cynicism? Why ignore facts about the significant player and infrastructure investments that ARE happening?

 

6. Carl was a controlling, narcissistic, autocratic man. His sons were grown men, but with zero authority and minimal influence, at the time of Carl's contraction craziness. The boys were ambivalent in general at the time about the baseball business. They dreaded having their own kids go through life hearing the "Cheap Carl" stuff turn into "the cheap Pohlads" garbage (and it IS total garbage IMO). It's little known that at that time, all three of the boys were urging Carl to either have a bowel movement or exit the lavatory. None of them wanted same old same old.

 

7. Jim Pohlad, for years, dealt with the Twins the same way they dealt with Pepsi Bottling or any other business. Put people in place, practice standard governance procedures (including expenditure oversight), and let your management manage. It just so happened that Ryan was frugal and risk-averse and St. Peter was not up to the task. Jim finally felt compelled to become more engaged, and is now fairly well-engaged. Took the guy awhile.

 

8. Jim Pohlad wouldn't know a PR strategy if it bonked him upside the noggin.

[Major League Ready]

 

People need to give them a break. You know how much money they spent to buy this franchise...

 

 

Or wait, they didn't spend anything they inherited it and are doing their father proud being so cheap. It's sad with the payroll where it's at they are still most likely clearing $100M a year. Spend a little more and you would get more fans in the state's stadium that was built and paid for you. You could make even more money if the team would keep making the playoffs and going further than just 1 round every time.

 

According to Statista five teams made less than the Twins last year. Three of them (Orioles / Blue Jays / Marlins) lost money. According to them your estimate, at least for 2018, is about 7X too high. Over the years I have looked at Forbes data every year. Their estimates average around $25M in profit. $100M is dramatically different tan any number I have ever seen, not to mention that estimate would suggest they can pay for every employee + payroll tax for players + travel + equipment + promotion, etc for around $30M for 2018. The payroll taxes alone (just players) are around $15M.  What source are you using to come up with $100M? It sounds like a number you plucked out of the air.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193650/operating-income-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/