Article: Thought Exercise: What Would You Give For Cano & Diaz?

[mikelink45]

 

Sure, but the reliever on his own probably costs Kirilloff or Lewis. Cano+Diaz costs maybe Nick Gordon.

I understand, but I would trade potential before being stuck with obvious and expensive regression in Cano.

[caninatl04]

I just want to point out that, per Bleacher Report, the Mariners have the worst farm system:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2794480-re-ranking-all-30-mlb-farm-systems-at-the-end-of-2018-milb-season

 

So, if their fire sale continues, the Twins would be a good partner.

[ChrisKnutson]

Still have a hard time believing that a 1-2 inning guy like Diaz (and Cano’s contract) is worth any of Kirilloff, Graterol, Lewis, or Romero. Hypothetically, my highest offer to Dipoto would’ve been Gonsalves, Arraez, Celestino, and Duran. And depending on how the talks are progressing, I might make Javier, Gordon, and Enlow available too.

[jkcarew]

Well, an aging first-baseman/DH who costs 24M and OPS+'s 115 (realistic expectation for Cano in 2019) is better than what we've had. And I'd love to have Diaz...so, I would have liked a shot at doing that deal. I would have given up about what the Mets did. Which is not much. (I assume, once named, the prospects will be of the Thorpe/Gordon/Gonsalves/Stewart/Rooker ilk...if not, I think they gave up more than they needed to.)

 

Coming off an 89-win season, the Mariners part ways with one of their best young players...for the sole purpose of getting out from under a long-term contract.  Not a great look for the game.

[mikelink45]

Here is the roto projection for Cano in 2019 - and remember he will be going down from here on.  http://rotoprofessor.com/baseball/?p=34410

[ahart10]

Not sure what a Twins package would’ve looked like. I do believe they could’ve sent lesser prospects than what the Mets did, with Twins not needing to send back a bad contract like Bruce or Swarzy. But here it goes; Kepler + Reed + Gordon + Stewart.

Cave makes Kepler expendable, Reed = Swarzy , Arraez > Gordon, and Stewart = meh.

[ewen21]

 

The Twins absolutely should stay away from players with talent and big salaries and pin their hope on prospects, that way the fans always have hope for future.

Being against silly deals for guys like Cano is as dumb as hoping every prospect pans out.  You are playing both ends against the middle.

 

It is stunning how many of these threads have surfaced lately...

Bumgarner, Cano, Grienke???

It almost feels like people want big names just to say we got a big name

[Winston Smith]

 

Being against silly deals for guys like Cano is as dumb as hoping every prospect pans out.  You are playing both ends against the middle.

 

It is stunning how many of these threads have surfaced lately...

Bumgarner, Cano, Grienke???

It almost feels like people want big names just to say we got a big name

I'm old enough to remember the Sears Christmas catalog. When it came it was I want that and that and that.... 

[ashbury]

You can never fail when your goal is always three years from today.

You can never fail when your goal is always three years from today.

You said that three years ago, too.

[USAFChief]

You said that three years ago, too.

To the minute, apparently.

 

Consistency....the hobgoblin of small minds.

[ashbury]

To the minute, apparently.

I worked hard to achieve that.

 

So, yes, about hobgoblins.

[TFRazor]

The fact that the Mets are all hot and heavy for this tells me that it’s a terrible deal so hard pass

[108Stitches]

Cano has always struck me as lazy and non caring; Someone with immense talent but cares no further than his own interests. I’d trade no one for him.

[Doctor Wu]

Zero interest in any trade that involves Cano. He's an over-the-hill and overrated "all star," and now one with questionable baggage. I hope the Twins aren't even thinking about trades like that, even if it brings us another phenom closer.

[ashbury]

Cano has always struck me as lazy and non caring; Someone with immense talent but cares no further than his own interests.

He's an above average offensive player and he plays well at an up the middle position on defense. Regardless of talent, how can someone be lazy and do that?

 

The PED suspension gives one pause. But PEDs do little unless the athlete is willing to work hard.

 

Using PEDs could indicate a certain degree of caring, albeit misguided, rather than non-caring.

 

As for his own interests, those coincide with his team's interests where it comes to results - what other interests are you implying? What harm to the team are you implying?

 

Age, and length/magnitude of remaining contract, are the big negatives. Innuendo is not needed.

[Squirrel]

 

I love how Carole and nick liked my post as I completely changed it......

Thanks for alerting me ... I took my like away.

[ewen21]

 

He's an above average offensive player and he plays well at an up the middle position on defense. Regardless of talent, how can someone be lazy and do that?

 

Moreover, how can he be called lazy when he had played in over 150 games per season for 11 straight years up until his suspension last year?

 

That said, a deal for Cano would be utterly insane.  If we got him I might stop watching baseball.  Can't stand him.

[Aerodeliria]

I wouldn't give up a ballpark frank for Cano. There is a reason to juice at 35. I wonder what their fans think.

[Mike Sixel]

I assume all the anti juicers want Polanco gone?

[Aerodeliria]

I went over to the Mets blogosphere. The consensus seems to be that they hashed it.

 

Here is one such post:

 

Kelenic and Dunn are two top 100 prospects. I think that is roughly what Diaz is worth. Maybe slightly more, but not McNeil more (as I said elsewhere I don’t think I’d do Diaz for McNeil straight up).

 

I also think Cano would probably get 5 years 50-60 million on the open market (although a lot of reporters have been speculating ~30 million). That is 60-70 million in negative value. I think Bruce and Swarzak are probably ~25 million under water. So, if we get Cano and Diaz for Kelenic, Dunn, Bruce, Swarzak and Gerson (which I think is what is being reported) and they chip in ~40 million I think that is a fair deal.

 

But, just because it is fair value doesn’t mean it makes sense for the Mets to do. We are giving up a lot of future talent for an elite RP when the market for good RP is flooded and RP are very volatile. We are also buying high on Diaz, he will most likely never put up a season like the one he just did. I think full assessment of the deal needs to wait until we see the $$ and what other moves they make. If they then go out and sigh Miller, Ottavino and Grandal + I can maybe get behind it. Although, I also know some people are very high on Kelenic as a prospect.

[ashbury]

I assume all the anti juicers want Polanco gone?

Moderator's Note: While I doubt it's your intent, let's (all collectively) not turn this into another "PEDs: Pro Or Con" thread, nor draw lines putting every poster in either one camp or the other. Cano was suspended for violating the league's drug policy^*, and that may or may not be a factor in whether one would wish to acquire him. But let's not expand it beyond Cano.

 

^{* _{As a point of information, he was suspended for use of a diuretic that is banned because it can mask PED use. He denied PED use, admitting only to the banned diuretic which he ascribed to a misunderstanding. OTOH people in the industry have been quoted as lacking in surprise he ran afoul of the rules.}}

[Aerodeliria]

I assume all the anti juicers want Polanco gone?

Not me, but Polanco is 25, not 35. It was good for him to get busted and that it happened when it did. Cano's case is much different--10 years older and unless he was super good at the cover up, clean up untl last year.

[ChrisKnutson]

I know we’re talking about hypotheticals, but since this is reality, what are the chances we make a trade as impactful as this?

 

And if so, for who???

 

Carlos Santana’s still an obvious candidate (move Cron to DH), Eugenio Suarez might be available, Gary Sanchez(???), ATL might wanna move on from Julio Teheran, or perhaps ARI could attach Ketel Marte to Greinke’s contract for a sizable return.

[Mike Sixel]

Moderator's Note: While I doubt it's your intent, let's (all collectively) not turn this into another "PEDs: Pro Or Con" thread, nor draw lines putting every poster in either one camp or the other. Cano was suspended for violating the league's drug policy^*, and that may or may not be a factor in whether one would wish to acquire him. But let's not expand it beyond Cano.

 

^{* _{As a point of information, he was suspended for use of a diuretic that is banned because it can mask PED use. He denied PED use, admitting only to the banned diuretic which he ascribed to a misunderstanding. OTOH people in the industry have been quoted as lacking in surprise he ran afoul of the rules.}}

Apologies. Certainly not my intent. Want it deleted?

[ashbury]

Want it deleted?

No. And anyway I know how.

[howieramone2]

 

You can never fail when your goal is always three years from today.

Whose goal is that? Cano's contract may be the worst in baseball. Darvish's contract, which if memory serves, you were quite fond of, may be close.

Edited December 1, 2018 by howieramone2

[Mr. Brooks]

I assume all the anti juicers want Polanco gone?

It's not just on principle.

Polanco makes the minimum.

I don't want to pay huge guaranteed money to a guy who may not be able to hit without PED's.

[USAFChief]

Whose goal is that? Cano's contract may be the worst in baseball. Darvish's contract, which if memory serves, you were quite fond of, may be close.

I think your argument should be with Falvey/Levine, no? They told us they were trying to sign Darvish.

[jkcarew]

Deal remains on hold...maybe administrative...maybe the cash?

 

As of now, the Mets parting ways with their 4 and 5 prospects (one of which was a #6 overall pick), plus another high-velocity young arm. That's too much, IMO...almost no matter the cash. It's not like the contract won't look horrible 2-3 years from now just because you got $60M back in 2018 as part of the transaction.

 

But this falls under the category of a reasonable 'win now' move, IMO...the Met's being a team that automatically has a chance in the NL give their starting pitching. However, I would think this would end any speculation that the Mets would trade any of the top starters?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Whose goal is that? Cano's contract may be the worst in baseball. Darvish's contract, which if memory serves, you were quite fond of, may be close.

 

The Twins clearly disagree, as they were the 2nd bidder on Darvish, so they wanted him (just for 1 year less).......

Edited December 2, 2018 by Mike Sixel