Affiliate Reshuffle?

[amjgt]

With the first year or so under their belts, the organization analyzed, and changes starting to happen (scouting and analytics), I got to thinking what other major(ish) changes might Falvey and Levine be interested in implementing.

 

The Twins farm system is pretty East Coast heavy do we think there might be any interest in getting an affiliate west of the Mississsippi (ok... CR technically counts)?

 

How would that even happen?

 

Seems like with the changes within the scouting department, now might be the optimal time for that to take place.

 

Maybe I ignored the main question... do we think there is even an advantage to having a more geographically diverse footprint?

[Lonestar]

No. There are so many parks and leagues that are too hitter friendly in the California League, Texas League, and PCL.

[rujellis]

Spreading out your affiliates also ups your travel costs for scouts, front office peeps, minor league coordinators and players. 

 

I can see some benefit to having your teams more co-located around MIN, but you aren't moving out of Florida given the footprint they have invested in down there.  So that leaves Chattanooga and Rochester. 

 

I can see benefits of swapping Rochester(A) and Cedar Rapids(AAA).  If for no other reason than a shorter trip for the team that is feeding your major league club.  

 

I also have longed wish for the St. Paul Saints to be an affiliate for the Twins.  I do think it makes the Saints a far more interesting product(for me).  But I know its been shot down in the past.  

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm a bit selfish, but I'd love to see them dump Rochester and pick up Indianapolis.

[amjgt]

Rochester MN would be a good AAA affiliate, but there's no league that makes sense.

[amjgt]

Colorado Springs or OK City in the PCL could be moved to Rochester and have it make some geographic sense. (Des Moines and Omaha in the same division)

 

Not that their current affiliated MLB teams have any interest in this... but geographically it's feasible

[TNTwinsFan]

Move the AAA affiliate to Nashville!

[nicksaviking]

It looks tough for the Twins geographically to get a closer AAA team. 

 

It looks to me like Gwinnett, the Braves affiliate is easily the worst drawing team, maybe that'a the opportunity for a more local team for the Twins. If the IL would kick Gwinnett out due to attendance, then I'd think Charlotte and Durham would probably fight over getting the Braves which would cause other team's to  have to reshuffle. One team would be left without a home and even though I'm sure the IL would have final say over which city is added, I'd think the MLB club sponsoring them would at least have some pull.

 

With the new stadium and some of the best attendance in all the minor leagues, perhaps St. Paul would be pretty attractive?

[Brandon Warne]

All depends on the contracts. Believe they just re-upped in Rochester though. You also need to find another team willing to move.

[iastfan112]

 

It looks tough for the Twins geographically to get a closer AAA team. 

 

It looks to me like Gwinnett, the Braves affiliate is easily the worst drawing team, maybe that'a the opportunity for a more local team for the Twins. If the IL would kick Gwinnett out due to attendance, then I'd think Charlotte and Durham would probably fight over getting the Braves which would cause other team's to  have to reshuffle. One team would be left without a home and even though I'm sure the IL would have final say over which city is added, I'd think the MLB club sponsoring them would at least have some pull.

 

With the new stadium and some of the best attendance in all the minor leagues, perhaps St. Paul would be pretty attractive?

They'd still have smallest park in the league, by a good sized margin as well. If we're looking at AA teams to promote I think either Sioux Falls or Fargo-Moorhead would be better choices. I have friends in the Cedar Rapids area who were fairly indifferent Twins fans who follow much closer now that they have a stronger, local connection to the team.

[clutterheart]

Twins should keep their affiliates in a cold weather city.  I wish they would get back to New Britain and leave Chattanooga.    

[biggentleben]

 

It looks tough for the Twins geographically to get a closer AAA team. 

 

It looks to me like Gwinnett, the Braves affiliate is easily the worst drawing team, maybe that'a the opportunity for a more local team for the Twins. If the IL would kick Gwinnett out due to attendance, then I'd think Charlotte and Durham would probably fight over getting the Braves which would cause other team's to  have to reshuffle. One team would be left without a home and even though I'm sure the IL would have final say over which city is added, I'd think the MLB club sponsoring them would at least have some pull.

 

With the new stadium and some of the best attendance in all the minor leagues, perhaps St. Paul would be pretty attractive?

 

The Braves own Gwinnett, so it's not exactly an affiliate in the same way, which puts the league in a different situation. The Twins could put out feelers to places like Sioux Falls, Fargo, and others to check on interest of doing a similar situation, but that would then put the city they go to in the spot of footing the bill for all of the facilities while having none of the ownership of the rights of the team (see Richmond with the Braves before they moved to Gwinnett).

[biggentleben]

Every two seasons, affiliates do a shuffle based on their contracts being up. You can check out the list here that will be eligible after the 2018 season to move, but that's the soonest any affiliate would be likely to move.

 

https://ballparkdigest.com/200905261902/minor-league-baseball/news/affiliate-dance-2012

[pbrezeasap]

Amarillo, where I currently live, is getting the San Antonio AA team in 2019 and their contract with the Padres ends in 2018. I would love to get to see Twins prospects coming through here, but then again I'm not sure I would like it if a bunch of people around here turned into Twins fans, I kind of like being one of only a handful in the area.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

Personally, I would hate to see the Twins pull out of Chattanooga. I believe they have two years remaining on the contract with the Lookouts.

 

If they should move any team, I'd say it should be Rochester (just because of distance). It's just somewhat helpful to have your affiliations in a somewhat centralized location.

 

From a sheer distance perspective, Toledo would be a good place. 

 

At the same time, one should remember that the affiliates are on the road about half the time. Calling up a player from Rochester, for example, may mean calling him up from where ever the team happens to be playing.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

I guess Chattanooga is only signed through 2018.

[Thrylos]

 

Maybe I ignored the main question... do we think there is even an advantage to having a more geographically diverse footprint?

 

No.  There is a disadvantage as far as traveling distances go in player movement.  With Chattanooga being one hr away from Atlanta by car, and both Atlanta and MSP Delta hubs with one daily non-stop from ROC-MSP (and with most International League AAA towns having airports with direct flights to either ATL or MSP), player movement is ok.   If anything, Cedar Rapids is in the only one that is not close to the teams above and below it (Fort Myers and E-town.)  But at that level it does not really matter.

 

I think that more strategically the Twins should follow the example of the Braves, Cardinals etc and own all of their teams (they currently own the E-Town team) to have more control over the local fan-bases and actually try to turn them into Twins' fans and quit the ridiculousness that happens in places like Rochester where they sell Yankees stuff at their ballpark.

[old nurse]

 

No.  There is a disadvantage as far as traveling distances go in player movement.  With Chattanooga being one hr away from Atlanta by car, and both Atlanta and MSP Delta hubs with one daily non-stop from ROC-MSP (and with most International League AAA towns having airports with direct flights to either ATL or MSP), player movement is ok.   If anything, Cedar Rapids is in the only one that is not close to the teams above and below it (Fort Myers and E-town.)  But at that level it does not really matter.

 

I think that more strategically the Twins should follow the example of the Braves, Cardinals etc and own all of their teams (they currently own the E-Town team) to have more control over the local fan-bases and actually try to turn them into Twins' fans and quit the ridiculousness that happens in places like Rochester where they sell Yankees stuff at their ballpark.

The retailer makes the money. They would sell Lynx jerseys if they  thought the  merchandise would sell.

[Thrylos]

 

The retailer makes the money. They would sell Lynx jerseys if they  thought the  merchandise would sell.

 

Regardless, it is tacky to sell merchandise of a direct competitor.  If the Twins owned that team, there would be no issue.   Also, the Yankees, like the Twins, get a % of merchandise sold that bear their name...  Not only the retailer making $

[old nurse]

 

Regardless, it is tacky to sell merchandise of a direct competitor.  If the Twins owned that team, there would be no issue.   Also, the Yankees, like the Twins, get a % of merchandise sold that bear their name...  Not only the retailer making $

Baseball's merchandise revenues are pooled. Retail markups are not.  The team store keeps the markup on what is sold. If the local fan wants to but a Yankee product they will go elsewhere and the team store makes little money on a product in the clearance bin.

[Shaitan]

Does the GM or President of Operations control this? It seems more like a CFO or St. Peter kind of role.

 

Either way, it's always an interesting discussion.

[stringer bell]

The number one thing I'd like to see in the two highest level affiliates is not so much bad weather. Rainouts and the subsequent doubleheaders scramble things. Pitchers will go a week without pitching and then the teams will be playing back-to-back doubleheaders.

[kab21]

I am really happy with most of the affiliates. I really like the addition of Chattanooga and CR recently.

Rochester is the one where it seems that the Twins don't have a great relationship but I don't know much about the local issues. It sounds like either org would move on but there has to be another team/affiliate that is also available. Tough to find a match.

E-Town might be another one.

 

My preference would be for the Twins to add an affiliate in the NWL or the NYPL and get an advanced short season team.

[caninatl04]

Personally, I would hate to see the Twins pull out of Chattanooga. I believe they have two years remaining on the contract with the Lookouts.

 

If they should move any team, I'd say it should be Rochester (just because of distance). It's just somewhat helpful to have your affiliations in a somewhat centralized location.

 

From a sheer distance perspective, Toledo would be a good place. 

 

At the same time, one should remember that the affiliates are on the road about half the time. Calling up a player from Rochester, for example, may mean calling him up from where ever the team happens to be playing.

The Mud Hens have been the Tigers' affiliate for 30 years now. I think a change is unlikely.

[goulik]

I am really happy with most of the affiliates. I really like the addition of Chattanooga and CR recently.

Rochester is the one where it seems that the Twins don't have a great relationship but I don't know much about the local issues. It sounds like either org would move on but there has to be another team/affiliate that is also available. Tough to find a match.

E-Town might be another one.

 

My preference would be for the Twins to add an affiliate in the NWL or the NYPL and get an advanced short season team.

When I was in college in the late 80s and early 90s our AAA affiliate was Portland. I do not know why this changed to Salt Lake and eventually Rochester but I went to college with a guy from Portland and he was a big Twins Fan because of the affiliation. He made it sound like there were lots of Twins fans in Portland. I rarely saw him without his Twins hat on. It helps that we won two World Series during that time but I always hated that we lost Portland.

[Rosterman]

 

When I was in college in the late 80s and early 90s our AAA affiliate was Portland. I do not know why this changed to Salt Lake and eventually Rochester but I went to college with a guy from Portland and he was a big Twins Fan because of the affiliation. He made it sound like there were lots of Twins fans in Portland. I rarely saw him without his Twins hat on. It helps that we won two World Series during that time but I always hated that we lost Portland.

I think the Twins snuck in chilly Edmonton somewhere in there.

 

So, they own E-Town but currently negotiating about a better playing field, for a team that draws less a few hundred a game. The team is actually run by the Parks & Rec Board of the town.

 

I'm surprised the Twins don't own the Ft. Myers team, since they pretty much own the complex, and they have their GCL team there as well as their training facilities. What is interesting about this is that it does give a rehab player two levels to play at. And if you have to make a minor roster shuffle, sending someone away to a top level, you can shuffle in a GCL league guy as a short-term backup.

 

Minor League ball, although still competitive, is still minor league ball. It would be great if the Twins did have a franchise in St. Paul, with players far enough from the majors so it doesn't conflict with the major league team, but still exciting enough (imagine the Cedar Rapids fans falling in love with Royce Lewis, even if for a month).

 

The Rochester franchise is a solid franchise and they do want a competitive team on the field, or do want to sell tickets and such. Family-run forever, I believe.

 

But man, the ups and downs between there and Chattanooga of late. Like Yohan Pino...where does he live when in one town one week and another town the next.

[ashbury]

My preference would be for the Twins to add an affiliate in the NWL or the NYPL and get an advanced short season team.

An additional team won't increase the number of good prospects in the system, just the amount of filler. What hole does having a low-A team fill? How many players are held back in their development because they have outgrown Elizabethton but aren't ready to tackle Cedar Rapids?

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

Selfishly, I would like to see them move the AA team back to the Eastern League.  I used to be able to travel to Reading or Trenton to see the RockCats.  Granted I can still see the AAA team when they play in Lehigh Valley, but the more interesting prospects always seem to be in AA, and I like the other ballparks better too.

[Guest]

It's interesting (to me, at least) that no affiliations have been extended beyond 2020, because that's when the governing agreement between MLB and MiLB expires. Typically, that agreement has been routinely extended several years prior to expiration, so that teams can extend their affiliations well into the future.

 

It's not happening this time and speculation is that it's because MLB teams are waiting for resolution of the legal challenges regarding minor league pay. MLB teams continue to pressure their affiliates to lobby local Congressmen on their behalf by holding the threat of minor league contraction and/or changes to revenue/cost sharing provisions in the next MLB/MiLB agreement over the affiliates heads.

 

If legal challenges result in higher minor leaguer pay, MLB suggests they may cut back the number of levels of affiliated minor leagues or insist their affiliates pay a greater share of revenues to the MLB parent, to make up for the additional pay costs. 

 

It's shameful, given the comparative financial statuses of parent organizations vs their affiliates and MiLB players, but that's MLB for you.

 

Anyway, the point is, I wouldn't look to see much change in affiliations until the legal challenges regarding minor league pay and, thus, the next working agreement between MLB & MiLB get settled.

[kab21]

 

An additional team won't increase the number of good prospects in the system, just the amount of filler. What hole does having a low-A team fill? How many players are held back in their development because they have outgrown Elizabethton but aren't ready to tackle Cedar Rapids?

There are always several college draft picks that should start higher than ETown. I also think it would be a better choice than ETown for many although I wouldn't necessarily get rid of  ETown.