Time to DFA Molitor?

[DocBauer]

OK, I know you DFA players and not managers. But there has been so much trade talk and DFA talk lately, it seemed an appropriate title. There was a recent poll on the "Trib" that had voters overwhelmingly, about 2-1, saying Molitor should keep his job for 2018. There was an interesting and I think fair article on the Pioneer Press today regarding Molitor and his job. (Note: Don't know how to include the link)

 

Molitor was a tremendous player and HOF time performer, despite injuries that robbed him at times. When he joined the Twins family as an instructor, there were many positive reports of his workings with young talent on the farm, and his evaluations. In 2015, his rookie year as a ML manager, the Twins seemed to overachieve. And were it not for some questionable moves...May to the pen over Pelfrey...and some late and not enough bullpen moves...that team may have made the playoffs, at least. Molitor was the man at the helm for that season.

 

He was also the man in charge, on the field at least, for the abysmal 2016 season. Then, even now in retrospect, many questions arise as to how that team was handled. To this day, I'm not sure any of us know how much blame should be laid at the feet of Molitor, or Ryan, or just bad luck. Molitor himself, at times, has referenced comments as to mistakes made in 2016. Personal blame or a shot to the then FO?

 

The one condition given to Falvey and Levine when they took over for 2017 was that Molitor must be kept on as manager. Despite a limited roster, though it also included a ton of young talent, the Twins have surprised in 2017 right up until, and just past, the all star game. Tough competition, a string of losses, and now the acceptance of not making the layoffs and subsequent trades, has left our beloved Twins, and their manager, in an interesting, intriguing and frustrating position. There is something to play for still, a .500 record, building for 2018 and beyond, and further auditions for young talent. But Molitor is now denied his closer, and a nice rotation piece who was here for all of one game.

 

I don't envy the position Molitor is in, and has been since the season began. There is a lot of talent and potential to like here. Some of it has developed as hoped, some is coming on, some hasn't met hope or expectation. At least not yet.

 

One could argue he has embraced analytics, worked towards matchups, and experimented with his lineups to find options that work. One could also question such constantly juggling, falling in love with performing relievers and over using them, and putting on plays that seem questionable. But, with a young and developing lineup, and serious questions as to his pitching staff, we have to ask ourselves as to how much Molitor may lay at the foundation of blame vs working with what he has at the moment.

 

So I have to ask, and put it to all of you for your input, is Molitor a guy stuck in the middle the past 2+ season's trying to make a difference the best he can? 2015 and the first half of 2017 suggest his may be the case. Or is he to, at least partially, blame for 2016 and some questionable play and options in 2017?

 

Is it time to DFA Molitor? Or, betw÷n 2015 and the first half of this season, do we see a guy who can do things right, with some additions and help, that can keep this team moving forward in 2018?

[Squirrel]

 

There was an interesting and I think fair article on the Pioneer Press today regarding Molitor and his job. (Note: Don't know how to include the link)

 

Just copy and paste the url into the body of your text. Like this:

https://innerartworld.com/collections/sneakers

(just a random link of no importance, just shoes)

Do you know how to do that? If you want something more seamless, first copy the url you want to use, then highlight the word or words of your text you want to become your link, click on the 'links' icon above (9th in from the left of the 2nd row of the text functions, to the immediate right of the numbered list icon), paste your url into the box that says 'url', click 'OK' and voila, you have your link.

 

(Edit: this doesn't work on your iPad, or at least it doesn't on mine, as all those text functions aren't available. If you are on your phone, you need to be in 'Full Version' mode.)

[kellyvance]

Mike Redmond

[David HK]

Yes.

[mickeymental]

stick a fork in him. within 24 hours. i guarantee it. believe me.

[AlwaysinModeration]

No, I'd wait until after the season. In some ways, we should hope the Twins continue to fall off down the stretch, so that Falvey has the wherewithal to replace Molitor with a stronger manager. If they finish above 500, their hands may be tied in this regards.

 

Molitor does seem to be learning a bit, but I think there are or could be much stronger choices for manager than Molitor. The timing could be great to bring someone in over the off-season, ready to take a young nucleus above 500 in 2018 and then be really competitive in 2019 and beyond.

[Platoon]

I think they will move on from Molitor. And I think it's time. Hopefully Pohlad will give him one of those sought after advisory roles, and someone who is able to relate to a younger roster is put in place. And by relate, I don't mean soft and a pushover. This team needs some even handed discipline and a return to fundamentals. It also needs someone who does not appear to base every decision on trying to win a particular game vs trying to improve the team as the season progresses, and winning the season. His game management style has always seemed to lack any consideration that looked past the immediate situation.

[drjim]

I imagine Molitor is gone after the year. I doubt a new manager will be much different, especially when it come to bullpen management.

[h2oface]

My bet, even before the season started, was that this would be his last season, no matter what happened. The new team deserves to pick who they want. It was trite to make them keep Molitor this year, in my opinion, but I guess they were intent on fulfilling a spoken and written agreement.

[Minnesotatwins005]

If they do let him go I hope they would consider Jake Mauer and Doug Mientkiewicz. I always hear good things about Mauer and he seems to consistently have winning teams every season.

[nytwinsfan]

Yes (at the end of the season) for two reasons. (1) he makes a lot of questionable decisions IMO, and (2) he seems to have the wrong temperment. He almost always seems hyper-serious and judgmental. Especially for young players, I get the sense that they are almost always on a tight leash, which seems to make it hard for them to relax and just play. Admittedly that is just my extremely subjective take, and I could be wrong (I know the players, including the young ones like him a lot), but that's my gut feeling.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Molitor's job description has changed from trying to win every day to trying to develop the kids. Winning is now a secondary goal.

 

I would argue that these are the two main roles of a manager depending on where a team is in its development cycle. To be fair, I haven't been too terribly impressed with Molly on the field (and I couldn't stand Gardy either for the record). If Molly is incapable of being patient with younger talent and helping them along, then yes, he should be gone.

 

I don't believe that managers have no affect on games, and while I don't think we will see a WAR for managers, I do believe that a good manager can contribute much in the way a good player does by keeping the team in better position to win games.

[USAFChief]

I hope the team has a new manager next spring.  

[HitInAPinch]

I think Paul Molitor stays.  Surely you can point out some flubs, but so what?  Sometimes, things work.  Sometime, it goes to ****.  I believe he's done the best he could with what he's got.  He and his coaching staff have been doing their best to develop these young players.  The biggest problem is the pitching staff, both MLB and MiLB.  The recent work of Falvey and Levine proves that point.

 

Recently, yeah, the Twins got beat up.  Of course they did.  Look who they were playing.

 

Anyone short of a resurrected Sparky Anderson could make a big turn around with this team.  Patience is needed.  Not sure at all that a change in manager will help anything.  If management chooses to do so, I think that guy may already be in place:  Jeff Pickler. 

[nicksaviking]

I think Jeff Pickler is the guy next year. It might even have been a compromise upon Falvey's hire. He couldn't pick his own guy with Molitor under contract, but he could bring his own guy into the fold.

[drjim]

 

I hope the team has a new manager next spring.  

 

I would expend a lot more energy getting a new bullpen.

[Shaitan]

If they finish anywhere near .500 I think it's hard to get rid of him.

[Squirrel]

I hope the team has a new manager next spring.

 

I hope they have one before then. I hope they name someone by the winter meetings.

[DaveW]

I'd honestly just fire Molitor now, it doesn't do anyone any good to have a lame duck manager.

Gives him time to start the job hunt early, and allows the Twins a chance to try someone else out internally (Jake Mauer?)

 

[Loosey]

This team is beginning to remind me a lot of the 2000 and 2001 Twins.  The young players are ready to make their break out but there are a handful of veterans on the roster as well.  The question is are they parallel to the 2000 team or the 2001 team that showed the baseball world they were coming.  I'm leaning toward the 2000 version.

[twinsnorth49]

I would expend a lot more energy getting a new bullpen.

No reason you can't do both, and they should. In fact, it makes a stronger argument for them to replace him now. Go into the off season with the manager position already dealt with.

[Puckett34]

I think he stays on.  But if he were to be let go, give me Doug Mientkiewicz or an outside hire.  The outside hire preferably with loads of pitching development experience.

[drjim]

 

No reason you can't do both, and they should. In fact, it makes a stronger argument for them to replace him now. Go into the off season with the manager position already dealt with.

 

Of course you can. My position is it doesn't matter who the manager is if they don't improve the bullpen.

 

I generally think most of the criticisms of Molitor would be rendered moot if he had a better bullpen. In fact, going even further, I think overall Molitor did a great job with the talent he was given. I don't especially care if they get a new manager or not, don't think it will make much of a difference.

[Doomtints]

Woah, the ink isn't even dry on the trades and we're already on firing Molitor.  

 

I don't know of any mid-season firing of a .500 manager in recent history. Steinbrenner probably did it to Billy Martin a couple of times, sure, but beyond that?

 

Like him or hate him, Molitor has not done anything to warrant being fired, and don't forget the Pohlad pledge that Molitor would have a job through this season.

[Mike Sixel]

I am not a huge Molitor fan. I don't love his tactics, though it seems he's bunting less this year, so that's good. I don't see a huge amount of improvement in baserunning, which you'd think he would excel at teaching. I don't see maturity in Rosario's play. Those are just examples, and I don't feel like writing paragrpahs on what he does well, doesn't do well. I think it is hard to argue he's a good tactician. You may disagree, I'm not really here to convince you today.

 

But, most of what a manager does takes place off the field. And we can't really see this at all. I can't judge the clubhouse at all. And no, wins and losses don't necessarily mean much about that. It's clear, imo, that the FO and Molitor felt more leadership was needed in the clubhouse. It's not clear to me if that says good or bad things about Molitor as a leader, actually.

 

That's a lot of me typing.....based on what we can see, I'd let him go, but we can't see the most important stuff, so I am just going to trust the FO on this one.

 

If they replace him, I want someone that loves teaching and working with young players.

[USAFChief]

 

Of course you can. My position is it doesn't matter who the manager is if they don't improve the bullpen.

 

I generally think most of the criticisms of Molitor would be rendered moot if he had a better bullpen. In fact, going even further, I think overall Molitor did a great job with the talent he was given. I don't especially care if they get a new manager or not, don't think it will make much of a difference.

I would argue he made a bad situation worse with his (mis)management of his pitching.

 

He seems to me always in reactive mode, rather than proactive.  Wait till the damage is done, then make the resigned, grim march to the mound.  Little to no regard for L/R platoon advantages/weaknesses.  

 

Add in some odd lineup decisions, poor team fundamentals with no apparent improvement (or discipline for players who can't/won't improve), and occasional inexcusable flubs (double switch in LA the most recent) and I think there's opportunity for improvement.

[Doomtints]

 

I would argue he made a bad situation worse with his (mis)management of his pitching.

 

He seems to me always in reactive mode, rather than proactive.  Wait till the damage is done, then make the resigned, grim march to the mound.  Little to no regard for L/R platoon advantages/weaknesses.  

 

Add in some odd lineup decisions, poor team fundamentals with no apparent improvement (or discipline for players who can't/won't improve), and occasional inexcusable flubs (double switch in LA the most recent) and I think there's opportunity for improvement.

 

I agree, he is completely lost when it comes to managing pitching. He is better than last year, mind you, so there's improvement. Clearly the improvement has not been good enough, however.

But I don't think this alone means he can get fired before the season ends.

As for the double-switch fiasco, don't forget Tom Kelly also made a fool of himself in the 87 WS after boasting that managing in the NL would be a piece of cake. Kelly stuck around a bit longer after 87.

[Squirrel]

Woah, the ink isn't even dry on the trades and we're already on firing Molitor.  

 

I don't know of any mid-season firing of a .500 manager in recent history. Steinbrenner probably did it to Billy Martin a couple of times, sure, but beyond that?

 

Like him or hate him, Molitor has not done anything to warrant being fired, and don't forget the Pohlad pledge that Molitor would have a job through this season.

The OP wasn't suggesting he be fired now. Molitor s contract expires as the end of this season and the OP has started a discussion if it's time to move on from him.

[Halsey Hall]

I'd keep Molitor around.

[drjim]

 

I would argue he made a bad situation worse with his (mis)management of his pitching.

 

He seems to me always in reactive mode, rather than proactive.  Wait till the damage is done, then make the resigned, grim march to the mound.  Little to no regard for L/R platoon advantages/weaknesses.  

 

Add in some odd lineup decisions, poor team fundamentals with no apparent improvement (or discipline for players who can't/won't improve), and occasional inexcusable flubs (double switch in LA the most recent) and I think there's opportunity for improvement.

 

I'd advise following other teams as closely as you do the Twins. It's all basically the same. And I'd even say the specific examples that have been hammered on during the season weren't even all that egregious. Maybe one or two. The bigger picture of taking the dumpster fire bullpen he was working with and managing to win as many games as they did is a much bigger mark for the good than a few specific negatives.

 

Obviously there is no resolving this specific disagreement, I'm just confident that the managing of a bullpen is generally as good as the talent to work with. If the front office actually brings in some bullpen talent this offseason, whoever manages next year is going to look better.