Kyle Gibson optioned

[Mr. Brooks]

I agree with those saying that sending Gibson down after a good outing is pretty odd. Especially if it is so that Big Sexy can get another start. Being sent down after one bad start reeks of, "What have you done for me lately?"

Being sent down after an strong, effective start reeks of, "We were never really that fond of you."

It was never between Colon and Gibson though.

I think when Colon chose us over the Mets he did so with the promise of a legit audition.

Only someone in the room knows how many starts were promised, but I feel confident it was more than 1 or 2.

Obviously it probably wasn't a binding term, but I doubt Falvey wants to sour his reputation so soon, as Colon is well respected around the league.

[Mr. Brooks]

My point exactly, he should be pitching in AAA. To me move him the rotation down in AAA and see if you can find something in him that is value. I don't think Duffey in the long run fits as a bullpen piece. He isn't really a 1-2-3 type of an innings pitcher and is susceptible to the home run ball. I don't like bullpen pieces that consistently give up Gopher balls.

Guys don't improve going from the pen to the rotation though, when guys do improve its the other way around.

If he's not good enough to pitch in relief, then he's just not good enough to pitch here.

[darin617]

This is a great move! This will serve as a wake up call to Gibson. With all his struggles this season it's always good for a pitcher to know he needs to perform at a high level or he will not be in the majors.

 

Yes, I do agree the Colon circus can end anytime as well. Maybe the Twins can attach one of their catchers with him and I would expect the Mets would give the Twins something in return.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This is a great move! This will serve as a wake up call to Gibson. With all his struggles this season it's always good for a pitcher to know he needs to perform at a high level or he will not be in the majors.

 

Yes, I do agree the Colon circus can end anytime as well. Maybe the Twins can attach one of their catchers with him and I would expect the Mets would give the Twins something in return.

 

It's your argument that, what, Gibson isn't trying his hardest, but now he will?

[nicksaviking]

It's your argument that, what, Gibson isn't trying his hardest, but now he will?

And Gibson is probably going to be a tough arbitration case this off season; at this point I'd think he's very unlikely to get tendered. He's not going to be able to make a case for himself in Rochester.

 

The well might be too poisoned in Minnesota for him anyway, due to his own results of course. If he does figure it out it might be inevitable that it's after he leaves here.

[Twodogs]

Gibson has a 5.52 FIP (and an ERA over 6.00).  He has a WAR of -0.1.

Last year, Gibson had a 4.40 FIP (and an ERA over 5.00).  

 

I'm not sure why there is any problem with his demotion.  Should have happened a long time ago.  If anything, the team was TOO patient with him.

What are his stats over the last month?

 

What are Colon and Mejia stats over the last month??

 

A month or two ago I would have been screaming to send Gibson out, but I don't think this was good timing?

[Mr. Brooks]

What are his stats over the last month?

 

What are Colon and Mejia stats over the last month??

 

A month or two ago I would have been screaming to send Gibson out, but I don't think this was good timing?

 

I'd sure hope they aren't using as small of a sample size as a month to make any decisions.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Not that anyone particularly cares, but if Gibson fails to return to MLB for 20+ days this year, I think the Twins will get an extra year of control on him.

 

I think he is at 3 years, 152 days now. So he still needs 20 more to reach 4 years.

[drjim]

Not that anyone particularly cares, but if Gibson fails to return to MLB for 20+ days this year, I think the Twins will get an extra year of control on him.

 

I think he is at 3 years, 152 days now. So he still needs 20 more to reach 4 years.

Front office playing the long game.

[DocBauer]

Pitching better than he did the start of the season, and coming off his best start of the year, this seems very, very odd. But I think his situation is somewhat like Vargas being a yo yo this season when a roster spot has been needed. There is some sort of promise made to Colon in regard to getting an actual look. Something obviously beyond 2 games. Now the trade for Garcia. Someone had to go, at least temporarily, and that guy is Gibson. Willing to bet money he will make a couple AAA starts and then probably be up again to replace the released Colon. (Unless Colon suddenly finds new life, which I doubt.)

[Twodogs]

I'd sure hope they aren't using as small of a sample size as a month to make any decisions.

I agree if you are talking about the future, but you can't tell me that Colon is part of the future??

 

I mean why did they trade for Garcia?? That's not for the future, they did that to try and make a push for the end of the year. At that point don't you want to go with the hot hand?? I mean you have to admit, Gibson has looked good for 4 or 5 starts in a row, how has Colon looked?? I mean playing favorites because the guy is 44 and makes a nice story over a guy who pitched into the 8th inning last time out is likely a lot worse than looking at a one month sample, and for that matter what are Colon's numbers for the whole year?? Are they better than Gibson's?? I think not.

 

All I am saying is that Gibson has been one of the better pitchers as of late, I mean he has rivaled Santana over a short period of time. The Twins have, realistically, a short window to stay in the race. So we are talking from here on out a fairly small sample size.

 

So keeping a guy who has shown this year to not be able to get out of the 5th, over another guy who wasn't able to get out of the 5th most of the year, at least until this last month or so, in which he has been able to; is a bad choice.

 

At least to me, I mean you want the guys who are performing the best at that moment to get you there right??

[Mr. Brooks]

I agree if you are talking about the future, but you can't tell me that Colon is part of the future??

 

I mean why did they trade for Garcia?? That's not for the future, they did that to try and make a push for the end of the year. At that point don't you want to go with the hot hand?? I mean you have to admit, Gibson has looked good for 4 or 5 starts in a row, how has Colon looked?? I mean playing favorites because the guy is 44 and makes a nice story over a guy who pitched into the 8th inning last time out is likely a lot worse than looking at a one month sample, and for that matter what are Colon's numbers for the whole year?? Are they better than Gibson's?? I think not.

 

All I am saying is that Gibson has been one of the better pitchers as of late, I mean he has rivaled Santana over a short period of time. The Twins have, realistically, a short window to stay in the race. So we are talking from here on out a fairly small sample size.

 

So keeping a guy who has shown this year to not be able to get out of the 5th, over another guy who wasn't able to get out of the 5th most of the year, at least until this last month or so, in which he has been able to; is a bad choice.

 

At least to me, I mean you want the guys who are performing the best at that moment to get you there right??

I don't believe that Gibson's last couple starts are any kind of predictor of what his next start will be like.

I don't believe that "hot hands" exist. Guys are who they are, with ebbs and flows that are unpredictable.

In fact, if you could predict future performance based on a "hot hand", with even a 51% reliability, you could print money betting on sports and retire today.

[Guest]

In July, Gibson had an elite GB%, but his soft contact percentage was really bad and he walked more than 4 per nine. When people say he's doing better lately, that's lately, and it's not too good.

 

In some ways, spending a month in Rochester is the best way to determine whether to offer him a contract for next year. He needs to work on something, whatever it is, which he didn't get to complete earlier this summer when he went down, and it should be easier to work on it in Rochester than in a playoff chase.

[Thrylos]

 

New FO is getting up a head of steam and starting to clear out the player who have been here way too long.

 

If that were true, they would had cut Perkins instead of dragging him at the GCL for rehab.  Same with Santiago.

[Thrylos]

Here is what's bugging me about this move:  The Twins are not going forward with their hottest pitchers.  Here are what their current starters have been doing the last 2 weeks:

 

Mejia: 1.86 ERA, 1.241 WHIP, .263 OBA
Berrios: 3.24 ERA, 1.800 WHIP, .303 OBA
Gibson: 4.73 ERA, 1.350 WHIP, .224 OBA
Santana: 6.75 ERA, 1.606 WHIP, .316 OBA
Colon: 7.00 ERA, 2.077 WHIP, .400 OBA

 

For sure there were 2 better candidates, maybe 3 for being worse than Gibson lately.   This Colon thing makes no sense.

[Twodogs]

I don't believe that Gibson's last couple starts are any kind of predictor of what his next start will be like.

I don't believe that "hot hands" exist. Guys are who they are, with ebbs and flows that are unpredictable.

In fact, if you could predict future performance based on a "hot hand", with even a 51% reliability, you could print money betting on sports and retire today.

Ok let's leave predictions out of it. Who's numbers are better this year. Gibson's or Colon's??

[IndianaTwin]

Nobody has mentioned what I think is still a very logical situation for Colon. Sign with the promise of three starts before the 31st.

 

Pitches well and the Twins are in the race -- keep him.

Pitches well and the Twins fade -- someone will take him in a trade for a lottery pick and Gibson is back up.

Pitches lousy -- gets released and Gibson is back up.

 

One day at a time, folks.

[Mr. Brooks]

Ok let's leave predictions out of it. Who's numbers are better this year. Gibson's or Colon's??

Colon wasn't an option at this point. I think they promised him a certain minimum number of starts when they signed him.

 

Its fine to be against that move, but its already been made, they aren't going to spoil their rep by breaking promises to a well respected vet like Colon.

 

The choice for now was Gibson vs. Mejia.

Colon will get 2 to 3 more starts, and if he's still bad it'll be between Gibson and Santiago at that point.

[adorduan]

 

Equally bad, which is why I'm confused why anyone cares about this much.

 

Since his promotion in May, Gibson has a 5.27 ERA. In July, he has a 6.00 ERA. He's not getting better, despite having one good start. He's the same guy he's been all season.

No, they are not equally bad, Colon's numbers are even worse that Gibsons.

[adorduan]

 

Think Tommy Milone. He kept getting sent down to AAA and was lights out, then he'd get called back. Thats what Gibson needs to do, get down there and dominate, so that hes in line to be the first starter called when there is an injury, release, etc. 

 

In a month, if the Twins are still in contention and need a pitcher, call him up. In a month, if they are out of contention, call up one of the younger guys.

 

Gibson earned his ride to Rochester, I don't feel sorry for him. Right now he is just starting pitching depth.

And how did Colon earn his place in the rotation?  By sucking in the NL?

[adorduan]

 

Colon probably sells the most tickets out of the available options.

I think Recker was added because the Braves wanted the Twins to take some payroll back and to free up a 40 man spot for Atlanta. It was probably a condition for including cash and the reason the Braves were willing to deal.

So, the goal is to sell tickets?  I thought it was to win games.  My bad.

[Mr. Brooks]

And how did Colon earn his place in the rotation? By sucking in the NL?

Perhaps by his last 4 years before this year?

Im guessing the FO thought they saw something in ATL that could be fixed. They may be wrong, of course, but then again it may take more than 2 starts to know.

[Riverbrian]

 

Not that anyone particularly cares, but if Gibson fails to return to MLB for 20+ days this year, I think the Twins will get an extra year of control on him.

I think he is at 3 years, 152 days now. So he still needs 20 more to reach 4 years.

 

Any guesses on what Gibson will cost in Arbitration? 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Any guesses on what Gibson will cost in Arbitration? 

not much.

 

 

_{in terms of baseball players... he still makes more than me next year though.}

[adorduan]

 

Perhaps by his last 4 years before this year?
Im guessing the FO thought they saw something in ATL that could be fixed. They may be wrong, of course, but then again it may take more than 2 starts to know.

Yeah, fat 44 year old pitchers with dropping velocity always keep performing like they have the last 4 years...  This front office is losing me fast.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

No, they are not equally bad, Colon's numbers are even worse that Gibsons.

Eh, they're both bad enough that it doesn't really matter. Gibson has been slightly less awful in 2017, Colon has actually been a good pitcher much more recently than Gibson.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Colon wasn't an option at this point. I think they promised him a certain minimum number of starts when they signed him.

Its fine to be against that move, but its already been made, they aren't going to spoil their rep by breaking promises to a well respected vet like Colon.

The choice for now was Gibson vs. Mejia.

Colon will get 2 to 3 more starts, and if he's still bad it'll be between Gibson and Santiago at that point.

I also think they probably promised Colon x number of major league starts, but honestly, who cares. The Twins shouldn't worry about their rep taking a hit in this case. Colon is completely disengaged and could care less about the Twins. At least that was my impression watching his interview and reading about his at bats from posters at the game.

 

If the Mets wanted Colon but the Twins promised Colon more, then the Twins should just trade him back to the Mets at this point and keep running Gibson out there, or call someone up.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yeah, fat 44 year old pitchers with dropping velocity always keep performing like they have the last 4 years...  This front office is losing me fast.

And many of us are saying this is a really weird place to take a stand. Both pitchers have been awful. The Twins could release both of them tomorrow and I wouldn't blink twice over the decision.

[Mr. Brooks]

I also think they probably promised Colon x number of major league starts, but honestly, who cares. The Twins shouldn't worry about their rep taking a hit in this case. Colon is completely disengaged and could care less about the Twins. At least that was my impression watching his interview and reading about his at bats from posters at the game.

 

If the Mets wanted Colon but the Twins promised Colon more, then the Twins should just trade him back to the Mets at this point and keep running Gibson out there, or call someone up.

And I think if they had a significantly better option they'd consider breaking that promise.

But, since the other options are only slightly better, they probably see no reason to risk hurting their rep.

 

I personally think Gonsalves would be an upgrade, but if they agreed with me in that regard they never would have signed Colon in the first place.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah, fat 44 year old pitchers with dropping velocity always keep performing like they have the last 4 years... This front office is losing me fast.

True, but you could have predicted the same thing about a fat 40 year old, 41 year old, 42 year old, and 43 year old with declining velocities and you'd have been wrong to the tune of 10 bWAR.

 

You are likely right in this case, but now that the deal is done he's going to get a few starts to see if they can fix whatever they spotted.