Kyle Gibson optioned

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So what are Colon's numbers?

Equally bad, which is why I'm confused why anyone cares about this much.

 

Since his promotion in May, Gibson has a 5.27 ERA. In July, he has a 6.00 ERA. He's not getting better, despite having one good start. He's the same guy he's been all season.

[Blackjack]

Think Tommy Milone. He kept getting sent down to AAA and was lights out, then he'd get called back. Thats what Gibson needs to do, get down there and dominate, so that hes in line to be the first starter called when there is an injury, release, etc. 

 

In a month, if the Twins are still in contention and need a pitcher, call him up. In a month, if they are out of contention, call up one of the younger guys.

 

Gibson earned his ride to Rochester, I don't feel sorry for him. Right now he is just starting pitching depth.

[mikelink45]

I am not comfortable with the process - Gibson is still a pitcher we might need and what is the message?  The first time was to go down and work on some things, but this time he came back and seemed to be doing better than any other 3 - 5 rotation pitcher.  His attitude has to be in the dumpster right now.

 

But I am finally seeing the light, instead of a closer we will have a starter who will go through the lineup once and then go sit his old body down while the bullpen picks up all the rest of the innings.  Maybe we should have kept Gibson up as his caddy and plan on him coming in to pick up innings 4 - 7!

[Mike Sixel]

Yeah, this. I'm confused why anyone cares whether the Twins chose Bad Option A or Bad Option B.

 

I'm hoping this shuffling of chairs continues and Gonsalves ends up on the MLB team in early August.

Dreamer

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Dreamer

Yeah, and I keep forgetting about Santiago. Honestly, the best case scenario is that he gets healthy and bumps Colon.

[Mike Sixel]

Just a bunch of bad options really. If you are keeping Colon, this makes the most sense. What happens to Santiago when he is ready?

[birddog]

We have been passed by KC and more than likely will fall further and further behind the Indians. I like the Garcia trade but keeping Colon meant we had to lose Justin Haley back to the Red Sox. Haley wasn't the answer this year by any means, but he is young enough that he has a future where Colon is today only.

 

We are debating a lot of mediocrity here, players the great teams wouldn't even consider to help their team. I am glad we kept Mejia--he has a future. As mentioned, Gibson has the stuff. He just can't do enough with it consistently to save his job and since he had options left he is the one to go. I doubt he has future with Twins after this year.

 

One question I have with the Garcia trade though, is why did we get another good-glove no-bat catcher who needs to be on the 40-man roster? The closet is full of them already.

[markos]

Since Memorial Day weekend (past 11 starts), Gibson has a (admittedly weak) case as the Twins 3rd best pitcher. He has technically out-pitched Santana (lower ERA (4.83 vs 4.98), FIP (5.02 vs 5.78), xFIP (4.59 vs 4.91)) in almost idential innings/start (5.75 vs 5.97). He almost has as many quality starts as Santana and Berrios in that timeframe as well (4 vs 5).

 

Also, if you look at BrooksBaseball, around the end of May he changed his release point and increased his velocity, which did add more movement to his pitches. That has corresponded with a return to his elite GB ways (top-20 in MLB).

Overall, the results aren't great, but they certainly aren't terrible:
4.54 - American League average ERA for starters
4.83 - Gibson

 

So for me, there is a clear separation right now between Gibson and the 5th-starter mess on this team. The latter problem was fixed (hopefully) with the Garcia trade. For what it's worth, both Steamer and PECOTA project Gibson to out-perform Colon over the rest of the season (Steamer significantly so).

 

In the end, I think this is less about performance and more about roster flexibility - as many others have pointed out, Gibson can be optioned; Colon and Santiago cannot.

[Shaitan]

 

Just a bunch of bad options really. If you are keeping Colon, this makes the most sense. What happens to Santiago when he is ready?

I have a feeling they'll give Santiago a long rehab assignment after his last DL trip.

[olivia11]

I mean... 5 innings, 3 earned runs was a really good Gibson start before this last one against the Tigers. 

 

I'm all for the Twins giving Colon another shot.  If he can return to 2016 form, that's a really great move. If not, they can call up Gibson whenever they need to.  Or replace him with Santiago.   I like the risk.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Colon probably sells the most tickets out of the available options.

 

I think Recker was added because the Braves wanted the Twins to take some payroll back and to free up a 40 man spot for Atlanta. It was probably a condition for including cash and the reason the Braves were willing to deal.

[Danchat]

I think Gibson will be back. I don't think Colon will get many more starts, but then there is Santiago, but he's pretty lousy too. If Hector proves to be incompetent or Mejia continues to struggle, I could see Gibson back on this team.

[nicksaviking]

 

Equally bad, which is why I'm confused why anyone cares about this much.

 

Since his promotion in May, Gibson has a 5.27 ERA. In July, he has a 6.00 ERA. He's not getting better, despite having one good start. He's the same guy he's been all season.

 

I'm not making excuses for Gibson, but he previously only dabbled with a curveball and now is going to it more steadily and it's already become his best pitch. He's also cut his sinker usage this year. He seems to be making an actual attempt to change his game which makes me think there is at least a chance that it may all come together finally.

 

Not that I think the odds of it actually happening are worth getting worked up about. I'd just prefer him to some of the other options.

[jun]

If Duffey can be sent down, Gibson could stay as the long man.

[Mike Sixel]

 

They should have optioned Duffey in case they needed to stretch him out as a starter to replace somebody down the line. They may still need to do that.

 

for this year?

 

No way. Way too late. If you need an emergency starter you have 3 guys in AA, and even a guy or two in AAA. 

[Winston Smith]

Mediocre team and one of the big reasons is poor pitching. A debate over Gibson or Colon to fill the rotation really shows how big the problem is.

[h2oface]

 

Since Memorial Day weekend (past 11 starts), Gibson has a (admittedly weak) case as the Twins 3rd best pitcher. He has technically out-pitched Santana (lower ERA (4.83 vs 4.98), FIP (5.02 vs 5.78), xFIP (4.59 vs 4.91)) in almost idential innings/start (5.75 vs 5.97). He almost has as many quality starts as Santana and Berrios in that timeframe as well (4 vs 5).

 

Also, if you look at BrooksBaseball, around the end of May he changed his release point and increased his velocity, which did add more movement to his pitches. That has corresponded with a return to his elite GB ways (top-20 in MLB).

Overall, the results aren't great, but they certainly aren't terrible:
4.54 - American League average ERA for starters
4.83 - Gibson

 

So for me, there is a clear separation right now between Gibson and the 5th-starter mess on this team. The latter problem was fixed (hopefully) with the Garcia trade. For what it's worth, both Steamer and PECOTA project Gibson to out-perform Colon over the rest of the season (Steamer significantly so).

 

In the end, I think this is less about performance and more about roster flexibility - as many others have pointed out, Gibson can be optioned; Colon and Santiago cannot.

 

Great summary. Santana has been so very inconsistent since May 7, yet people still comment that he and Berrios are our only "consistent" starters. That is fantasy, and not paying attention.

[twinssporto]

 

Gibson has a 5.52 FIP (and an ERA over 6.00).  He has a WAR of -0.1.

Last year, Gibson had a 4.40 FIP (and an ERA over 5.00).  

 

I'm not sure why there is any problem with his demotion.  Should have happened a long time ago.  If anything, the team was TOO patient with him.

Totally agree with this post.  Obvious I know but I think its more of a head issue with Gibson than talent...He always looks scared when he pitches.  Don't like to see that.  

[HitInAPinch]

 

We have been passed by KC and more than likely will fall further and further behind the Indians. I like the Garcia trade but keeping Colon meant we had to lose Justin Haley back to the Red Sox. Haley wasn't the answer this year by any means, but he is young enough that he has a future where Colon is today only.

 

We are debating a lot of mediocrity here, players the great teams wouldn't even consider to help their team. I am glad we kept Mejia--he has a future. As mentioned, Gibson has the stuff. He just can't do enough with it consistently to save his job and since he had options left he is the one to go. I doubt he has future with Twins after this year.

 

One question I have with the Garcia trade though, is why did we get another good-glove no-bat catcher who needs to be on the 40-man roster? The closet is full of them already.

IMHO:  They needed something to make the trade work.  Anthony Recker is something and will be either MiLB fodder or waived.

[HitInAPinch]

 

for this year?

 

No way. Way too late. If you need an emergency starter you have 3 guys in AA, and even a guy or two in AAA. 

I like Duffey right where he is.

[jun]

I like Duffey right where he is.

I don't like Duffey where he is. Lately he is slightly better than Breslow.

[Mr. Brooks]

Since Memorial Day weekend (past 11 starts), Gibson has a (admittedly weak) case as the Twins 3rd best pitcher. He has technically out-pitched Santana (lower ERA (4.83 vs 4.98), FIP (5.02 vs 5.78), xFIP (4.59 vs 4.91)) in almost idential innings/start (5.75 vs 5.97). He almost has as many quality starts as Santana and Berrios in that timeframe as well (4 vs 5).

 

Also, if you look at BrooksBaseball, around the end of May he changed his release point and increased his velocity, which did add more movement to his pitches. That has corresponded with a return to his elite GB ways (top-20 in MLB).

Overall, the results aren't great, but they certainly aren't terrible:

4.54 - American League average ERA for starters

4.83 - Gibson

 

So for me, there is a clear separation right now between Gibson and the 5th-starter mess on this team. The latter problem was fixed (hopefully) with the Garcia trade. For what it's worth, both Steamer and PECOTA project Gibson to out-perform Colon over the rest of the season (Steamer significantly so).

 

In the end, I think this is less about performance and more about roster flexibility - as many others have pointed out, Gibson can be optioned; Colon and Santiago cannot.

This says more about how awful Santana has been since his hot first 5 weeks than it does about Gibson.

I'm guessing we're seeing the beginning of the end of Santana and just don't know it yet.

[Mr. Brooks]

I would have sent down Mejia, but I'm not especially offended by Gibson.

 

I do like giving Colon another start or two.

On what basis would you keep Gibson over Mejia?

[Mike Sixel]

 

This says more about how awful Santana has been since his hot first 5 weeks than it does about Gibson.
I'm guessing we're seeing the beginning of the end of Santana and just don't know it yet.

 

please be wrong. please be wrong. please be wrong.*

 

*not because I don't like you, but because I can't stand more bad pitching. And, I'll be too tempted to remind people this is why he should have been traded to stop myself. I know me. sigh.

[jun]

I think the fact that relievers like Duffey failed to strand inherited runners on base also contributed to the high era of some pitchers.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

please be wrong. please be wrong. please be wrong.*

 

*not because I don't like you, but because I can't stand more bad pitching. And, I'll be too tempted to remind people this is why he should have been traded to stop myself. I know me. sigh.

Other than the loss of on-field talent, it's not a disaster if Santana fades. He only has 14 months left on his contract. There's a vesting option but if he's bad, he won't reach the innings requirement.

 

A team will rarely win if they trade away talent when they fear that talent might decline, especially at a position of need as dire as the Twins' need for pitching.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Statistically speaking, Santana, Gibson and Mejia are virtually indistinguishable since May. The Twins have even won more games with Gibson on the mound than Ervin. 

 

 

 

[Oldgoat_MN]

I agree with those saying that sending Gibson down after a good outing is pretty odd. Especially if it is so that Big Sexy can get another start. Being sent down after one bad start reeks of, "What have you done for me lately?"

Being sent down after an strong, effective start reeks of, "We were never really that fond of you."

[Kwak]

 

I agree with those saying that sending Gibson down after a good outing is pretty odd. Especially if it is so that Big Sexy can get another start. Being sent down after one bad start reeks of, "What have you done for me lately?"

Being sent down after an strong, effective start reeks of, "We were never really that fond of you."

+1

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I agree with those saying that sending Gibson down after a good outing is pretty odd. Especially if it is so that Big Sexy can get another start. Being sent down after one bad start reeks of, "What have you done for me lately?"

Being sent down after an strong, effective start reeks of, "We were never really that fond of you."

 

Timing is certainly odd, but Gibson's body of work this season says more than enough. Hey, if he's turned the corner, it will show in AAA too, and he may get another call.