Article: Official Winter Meetings Tuesday Thread

[HitInAPinch]

Dozier trade:  This could very well happen after the Winter Meetings.  If the number of teams involved in talks with the Twins is remotely true [Yankees say they were never in] that will a while for Falvey to get what he wants.

 

On Jose Bautista:  what are the odds of Bautista signing with a bottom 10 team?  Well, I've found money to be a pretty good influencer.  The biggest thing to me is that he could be a heck of an influence on the younger Twins hitters. 

 

Now then, exactly how much looser are those Pohlad purse strings these days??

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

Boy, if I had a stud reliever I would seriously consider making a trade if I wasn't in contention.

 

Also if you didn't have a stud reliever, but really any kind of average reliever who amassed a goodish amount of saves via skill, unusual circumstance or sheer dumb luck last year.

[Vanimal46]

 

Also if you didn't have a stud reliever, but really any kind of average reliever who amassed a goodish amount of saves via skill, unusual circumstance or sheer dumb luck last year.

Well, that's one way to describe Brandon Kintzler...

[nicksaviking]

 

 

NO! The Twins are in no way close to contenting that they would even bother talking to his agent. The Twins are just one of the teams in the AL that have their 1st round pick protected.

 

I don't want the Twins to lose their 2nd round pick next year mostly due to its value; the Twins should be in the driver's seat at draft time and be able to game the situation due to their draft pool as the Astros have done recently.

 

But I'd guess the idea of signing Bautista would be that you could trade him in July for prospects much better than a 2nd round pick.

 

Problem is he's been hurt a lot lately.

[Taildragger8791]

 

I wouldn't call signing Joey Bats a contending move... It would be a strategic move for the team if he continues to mash at Target Field, and flip him to a contender in July. 

 

I like this idea. It would be an improvement in the on-field product, a good veteran presence for the team, and a pretty good chance to be flipped for something better than whatever would be available with that 2nd round pick. And the return player(s) would hopefully be closer to helping the major league club than a draft pick.

[Vanimal46]

 

I like this idea. It would be an improvement in the on-field product, a good veteran presence for the team, and a pretty good chance to be flipped for something better than whatever would be available with that 2nd round pick. And the return player(s) would hopefully be closer to helping the major league club than a draft pick.

That's what I'm thinking too... Sign him to a 1 year deal, hope he hits 20-25 bombs by July, then flip him for someone further along in their development than the 2nd round pick will be. If his presence helps the Twins win more games in 2017, even better. 

[lukeduke1980]

 

That's what I'm thinking too... Sign him to a 1 year deal, hope he hits 20-25 bombs by July, then flip him for someone further along in their development than the 2nd round pick will be. If his presence helps the Twins win more games in 2017, even better. 

You can't just sign guys, they have to agree.  No one jumps on board with a 106 loss team to likely have to move their family mid-season.

[Loosey]

 

I disagree. They are contenders next year....they won 84 games last year. Add Dozier, add a SP from someplace....that definitely gives them a legit shot at 90 wins, imo.

Man, I forgot they won 84 games.  I guess a Yankees tank isn't as bad as Twins tanking season. Especially after trading way high-end relievers and getting high end prospects back...

 

Once again, you are probably right, and I am probably wrong.  I HATE THAT!  

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

It's entirely possible, perhaps even probable, that the Yankees aren't in on Dozier given their current duo of MI. However, if I was the Yankees and I knew another team was involved with deep farm system like the Dodgers I'd be denying I was in the market too. All that admitting interest does is create a potential bidding war. They're better off denying it and then trying to sneak in the back door with an offer.

I doubt teams can really control that. The Twins can tell.the Dodgers they are talking to the Yankees, and if the Yankees still deny it, they just look like fools.

 

Possibly, the Yankees issue a public denial to keep the confidence of the player they would be replacing, but I assure you all the teams involved know who is actually involved (as much as it would affect them and their offers, of course).

Edited December 6, 2016 by spycake

[Vanimal46]

 

You can't just sign guys, they have to agree.  No one jumps on board with a 106 loss team to likely have to move their family mid-season.

Money talks... The Twins were a 103 loss team.... And who says Bautista has to move his family to Minnesota? 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Man, I forgot they won 84 games.  I guess a Yankees tank isn't as bad as Twins tanking season. Especially after trading way high-end relievers and getting high end prospects back...

 

Once again, you are probably right, and I am probably wrong.  I HATE THAT!

 

that post was pure laughing, thanks! No idea who is "right".....

[Oxtung]

I doubt teams can really control that. The Twins can tell.the Dodgers they are talking to the Yankees, and if the Yankees still deny it, they just look like fools.

Possibly, the Yankees issue a public denial to keep the confidence of the player they would be replacing, but I assure you all the teams involved know who is actually involved (as much as it would affect them and their offers, of course).

You call up the Twins and during the discussion Falvey let's slip the Yankees are interested too. You pick up the newspaper and Cashman is flat denying that they have even talked to the Twins. Who do you believe? They both have a vested interest in their story being the "true" story. I can even image a scenario where Doziers agent himself leaked the "4 teams interested" to draw national attention to his client because Brian wants to be traded to a contender.

 

 

I don't think anything about this time of year is clear cut. To support this there was an interview posted here earlier this week where Gammons and Rosenthal both said Agents and teams try to use them all the time to spread disinformation. That their job mostly is to sift out the truth from the lies.

[Vanimal46]

Never trust the word of a GM... Especially this time of year when it's all SCORCHING hot rumors. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

You call up the Twins and during the discussion Falvey let's slip the Yankees are interested too. You pick up the newspaper and Cashman is flat denying that they have even talked to the Twins. Who do you believe? They both have a vested interest in their story being the "true" story. I can even image a scenario where Doziers agent himself leaked the "4 teams interested" to draw national attention to his client because Brian wants to be traded to a contender.

 

 

I don't think anything about this time of year is clear cut. To support this there was an interview posted here earlier this week where Gammons and Rosenthal both said Agents and teams try to use them all the time to spread disinformation. That their job mostly is to sift out the truth from the lies.

Again, both can be "true" in the sense that the Yankees don't want their incumbent infielders to know. But they are probably under no illusion that what Cashman says to a reporter will affect the Dodgers.

 

I think the amount of specific outright lies between actual GMs is far lower than you are suggesting.

Edited December 6, 2016 by spycake

[Comrade Bork]

Is Polanco considered a better defensive second baseman than Dozier? If that's the case I would absolutely try and ship Dozier sooner rather than later. If there is Any chance of getting an elite defensive SS and pitching prospect for Dozier, I'd hope the FO would make a move. I'm sold on the idea of better defense helping the pitching staff out at the expense of offense.

[Thrylos]

 

Starlin Castro 2016 WAR: 1.1 (Fangraphs)

Brian Dozier 2016 WAR: 5.9

 

Starlin Castro 2013-2016 WAR: 4.8 

Brian Dozier 2013-2016 WAR: 16.4

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Apples and oranges.  They will move Castro to the OF, so you need to compare his value with that of (let's say) Aaron Hicks.  Both can co-exist in the same Yankee's lineup

[Mike Sixel]

 

Apples and oranges.  They will move Castro to the OF, so you need to compare his value with that of (let's say) Aaron Hicks.  Both can co-exist in the same Yankee's lineup

 

again, that wasn't the question being responded to.......

[nicksaviking]

 

You can't just sign guys, they have to agree.  No one jumps on board with a 106 loss team to likely have to move their family mid-season.

 

I don't know if it has happened yet or if a player and his agent will ever come to this conclusion, but if a guy is going to accept a 1-year reclamation deal but he wants a shot at a WS ring, it might be wise to initially sign with a non-contender simply so when July comes around you know that only the real contenders will come asking to trade for you.

 

[darin617]

 

If we were to sign Bautista, we would lose the 2nd round pick, right?

 

yes

[darin617]

 

I don't want the Twins to lose their 2nd round pick next year mostly due to its value; the Twins should be in the driver's seat at draft time and be able to game the situation due to their draft pool as the Astros have done recently.

 

But I'd guess the idea of signing Bautista would be that you could trade him in July for prospects much better than a 2nd round pick.

 

Problem is he's been hurt a lot lately.

 

Also, if they would sign him then both Park & Vargas would be in Rochester unless they are dealt.

[Vanimal46]

 

Also, if they would sign him then both Park & Vargas would be in Rochester unless they are dealt.

Is that a bad thing? Quite frankly I'm not sold on either of those guys anyway. 

[darin617]

 

You call up the Twins and during the discussion Falvey let's slip the Yankees are interested too. You pick up the newspaper and Cashman is flat denying that they have even talked to the Twins. Who do you believe? They both have a vested interest in their story being the "true" story. I can even image a scenario where Doziers agent himself leaked the "4 teams interested" to draw national attention to his client because Brian wants to be traded to a contender.


I don't think anything about this time of year is clear cut. To support this there was an interview posted here earlier this week where Gammons and Rosenthal both said Agents and teams try to use them all the time to spread disinformation. That their job mostly is to sift out the truth from the lies.

 

I don't know why Brian Dozier's agent would be involved in trade talks. Dozier is under contract for 2 more years and it would make zero sense that his agent would have anything to do with a trade. There is not a no trade clause or anything that would involve an agent in the trade talks.

[darin617]

 

Is Polanco considered a better defensive second baseman than Dozier? If that's the case I would absolutely try and ship Dozier sooner rather than later. If there is Any chance of getting an elite defensive SS and pitching prospect for Dozier, I'd hope the FO would make a move. I'm sold on the idea of better defense helping the pitching staff out at the expense of offense.

 

What about the offense production? No way Polanco is going to hit for the power numbers Dozier has put up as a Twin.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Chris Sale to the Red Sox:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/red-sox-to-acquire-chris-sale.html?fv-home=true&post-id=79501

 

Moncada leads the haul back to the White Sox.

[bustedstuff88]

Redsox acquire Sale for 4 prospects....kind of laughing to myself at those who said it would take a package of Sano/Buxton, Dozier and Berrios (and maybe even additional players to swing a Sale trade.....Why do even we as twins fans undervalue our own players?? Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

IMO, I wouldnt want sale if it cost me ANY of the above mentioned players. I would have proably done a Rosario, Palka and Vargas trade for him, but thatd be about it. 

[DaveW]

WOW

Sale to the Red Sox.

White Sox get Moncada who is a hall of famer in the making.

[DaveW]

 

Redsox acquire Sale for 4 prospects....kind of laughing to myself at those who said it would take a package of Sano/Buxton, Dozier and Berrios (and maybe even additional players to swing a Sale trade.....Why do even we as twins fans undervalue our own players?? Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

IMO, I wouldnt want sale if it cost me ANY of the above mentioned players. I would have proably done a Rosario, Palka and Vargas trade for him, but thatd be about it. 

Moncada is a significantly better prospect then Sano or Buxton.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Also, if they would sign him then both Park & Vargas would be in Rochester unless they are dealt.

 

Not necessarily, considering Bautista is an outfielder. He'd probably rotate through the DH spot at times but he won't clog it up. One of those guys might have to go down at some point, but with the inevitability of injuries they'll still see plenty of playing time. Mauer and Sano (due to inability to stick at 3B due to performance and health) will be blocking those two more than anything.

[Taildragger8791]

 

You can't just sign guys, they have to agree.  No one jumps on board with a 106 loss team to likely have to move their family mid-season.

 

Well he's not going to get signed by a contender due to his qualifying offer, so if he wants more money or opportunity he'll have to go to a bottom-10 finishing team. He wouldn't have to move his family since he'd know full well that it would be a half-season stint if he performs, and a 1-season stint if he doesn't.

[lukeduke1980]

 

Money talks... The Twins were a 103 loss team.... And who says Bautista has to move his family to Minnesota? 

Lol - I meant next year they'll lose 106.  And true - if your family is safe in Canada why move them now