Patience is a Virtue

[GMinTraining]

As the Twins have struggled in recent years, we fans often want results faster than they sometimes are ready.  Many of the players in our system still have high upside and shouldn't be cast aside so quickly.   Consider this - The following players had the bulb go off late in their careers and were able to have productive careers:

 

*Jake Arrieta jumped on the map @ age 27 

*Jose Bautista jumped on the map @ age 28

*Kevin Millar jumped on the map @ age 28

*Latroy Hawkins jumped on the map @ age 28

*Dave Stewart jumped on the map @ age 30

*Cliff Lee jumped on the map @ age 28

*David Ortiz jumped on the map @ age 27

*Jason Werth jumped on the map @ age 28

*Nelson Cruz jumped on the map @ age 28

*Jackie Bradley Jr. jumped on the map @ age 26

 

PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE

 

Players Worth the Wait

*Alex Meyers has a chance to be special based on tools alone @ 26

*Byron Buxton is 22 years old and people are judging his fate already

*Kennys Vargas is a switch hitting power hitter and only 25

*Oswaldo Arcia has shown the ability and lost his way at 25.  We balked

*Adam Brett Walker had 2nd highest PX in baseball in 2015 (MiLB & MLB)

*Eduardo Escobar was a doubles machine and is only 27

*Eduardo Nunez became an All Star when given a chance @ 29

*Travis Harrison @ 23

*Stuart Turner @ 24

 

I understand that we need to let players go as part of business decisions in the sport, but we as fans should stop being so angry that players aren't progressing as quickly as we want.  I believe we need to stop looking for the fast track prospect and realize who we are and where we are as a franchise.  We are a franchise that has to be completely patient and hold on to everybody for as long as we can.  We don't draw the big free agent based on weather and other factors.  Free agent finds and late bloomers are the key to a winning resurrection.  Sano; Kepler and Buxton are our future, but understand, we will need those upside prospects and players for any chance of long term success.

 

[drivlikejehu]

I love how the Walker plugs are getting more and more stealthy, by bunching him with other players, etc. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

The rule of 27 I suspect is still a very real thing, even if it's largely been dismissed.

[GMinTraining]

 

I love how the Walker plugs are getting more and more stealthy, by bunching him with other players, etc. 

My favorite prospect even if he isn't the best prospect.  And for the record - I didn't put him on the 40 man.  The Twins did.

 

I posted an article solely about Walker just now.  No shame here.  

[Rosterman]

Yes, and you hope those 2-3 seasons of riding the 40-man and doing some up-and-down, or coming off the bench before going into the field fulltime, come to a cap by age 27 and you still have a few years of control or make the plunge and able to sign them to another contract thru their first free agency year.

 

Not everyone steps to the plate or mound and blows people away at age 21-22-23.

[Mr. Brooks]

I agree in principle. Don't really agree on Walker.

Not that he really has any trade value, so sure hang on to him. In fact, I'm on the record saying I'd have him up right now just to see if miracles can happen.

But, he's a fun novelty. Would struggle to hit .170 in mlb, so I don't see any future.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Part of the cycle that leads us this point is that these guys get hyped so early in the process. It feels like Buxton and Sano have been thrown out as saviors for 10 years now, which makes it hard to stay patient.

[jimmer]

I just want to know how long before we can be bothered this team is so bad.  How long should the patience last before we stop getting told to be patient?

 

In the bigger picture.  25 years since we won a World Series.  We've made the playoffs SIX times since then. It's been 14 years or so since we made it past the first round of the playoffs.

[Vanimal46]

Part of the cycle that leads us this point is that these guys get hyped so early in the process. It feels like Buxton and Sano have been thrown out as saviors for 10 years now, which makes it hard to stay patient.

Spot on. In the 2012-2014 "silver linings" era there was very little to market at the MLB level. I remember reading countless articles in the Star Trib and Pioneer Press during those years "Just wait until 2016! It's all going to come together with Buxton and Sano leading the way!"

 

It's very hard to stay objective and remember they're just 22-23 since we've been reading about every single progression for 4+ years.

[Vanimal46]

Patience is accepted when you have a well put together MLB roster and winning ball games. Patience goes away very quickly when your MLB roster is a mess and you're losing ball games. Simple as that.

 

When your favorite team is on pace to hit 90+ losses again, I think it's justified to question whether these players we're waiting on is actually worth the wait.

[Bark's Lounge]

Players Worth the Wait
*Alex Meyers has a chance to be special based on tools alone @ 26

Answer: Not much hope left on this player working out

 

*Byron Buxton is 22 years old and people are judging his fate already

Answer: Let it ride, good/great things to come

 

*Kennys Vargas is a switch hitting power hitter and only 25

Answer: I have not lost faith in Vargas, but we have a damn log jam, Mauer, Park or Vargas needs to be eliminated from this equation.

 

*Oswaldo Arcia has shown the ability and lost his way at 25.  We balked.

Answer: Good Luck in St. Petersburg!

 

*Adam Brett Walker had 2nd highest PX in baseball in 2015 (MiLB & MLB)

Answer: Rob Deer, is that you?

 

*Eduardo Escobar was a doubles machine and is only 27

Answer: Escobar is a valuable player on a ball club, he has proven it as a starter and I hope he can off the bench.

 

*Eduardo Nunez became an All Star when given a chance @ 29

Answer: If you can't get a very good return for him in a trade - let it ride, he has been great!

 

*Travis Harrison @ 23

Answer: Not looking promising

 

*Stuart Turner @ 24

Answer: Drew Butera 2.0

[TheLeviathan]

I think this is the offseason we find a way to get Mauer off this roster.  In fact, I'd make it priority #1.

[jimmer]

 

I think this is the offseason we find a way to get Mauer off this roster.  In fact, I'd make it priority #1.

and that will turn out the same way priority #1 last offseason did :-)

[TheLeviathan]

 

and that will turn out the same way priority #1 last offseason did :-)

 

You're probably, sadly, right.

[twinsnorth49]

I just want to know how long before we can be bothered this team is so bad. How long should the patience last before we stop getting told to be patient?

 

In the bigger picture. 25 years since we won a World Series. We've made the playoffs SIX times since then. It's been 14 years or so since we made it past the first round of the playoffs.

I agree but throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't going to solve the problem necessarily. The team could definitely be more proactive in other avenues to improve this team, but in the context of the OP that shouldn't mean unnecessarily giving up on players too soon.

[Reider]

Carlos Gomez

[twinsnorth49]

Good grief, let's not turn this into another "players the Twins whiffed on hindsight 20/20" thread.

 

Please?

[Jham]

I've been on the record as saying the Twins biggest problems involve over-valuation of potential results.  Simple truth: you can't keep everybody.  Anyone could post a list of failed prospects who did not suddenly improve nearing 30.  It would be 40 pages long.  I'm starting to believe our problem is scouting.

 

Poor scouting explains our decision to sign Nishioka, trade for Delmon Young, trade for Alex Meyer, draft Alex Wimmers, and depend on DanSan, Rosario, and numerous other prospects to play a prominent roles before they were ready.  Even David Ortiz, a top 100 prospect was eschewed for right handed bat Matthew Lecroy, a top 50 prospect.  In that case, we agreed with national scouts, but we should have an internal advantage over national scouts.  We're seemingly usually worse somehow.

[Craig Arko]

 

Spot on. In the 2012-2014 "silver linings" era there was very little to market at the MLB level. I remember reading countless articles in the Star Trib and Pioneer Press during those years "Just wait until 2016! It's all going to come together with Buxton and Sano leading the way!"

It's very hard to stay objective and remember they're just 22-23 since we've been reading about every single progression for 4+ years.

I think you've misidentified the problem. You should stop reading newspapers.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Players Worth the Wait
*Alex Meyers has a chance to be special based on tools alone @ 26

Answer: Not much hope left on this player working out

I know I'm in the minority here but I still don't believe this is the case. Yes, the deck is stacked again Meyer. Yes, he's getting old in a hurry.

 

But Meyer's problem isn't performance, it's health (and the Twins jerking him around left and right but that's another topic for a different thread).

 

Maybe Meyer is a permanent injury risk. It happens.

 

But some guys are injury risks until one day they're... Not. And vice versa is equally true.

 

So I'm going to keep holding out hope that Meyer gets it together and stays on the field before I write him off entirely.

[jbissell]

I still think Buxton is a future all-star, and already pretty much is defensively (He needs to stop smashing into walls so much, but thats for another thread) I am seeing offensive improvement and am especially encouraged by the dropping strikeout rate.

 

The media did him no favors with the early comparisons to Mike Trout. Mike Trout could easily end up one of the top 10 players of all time! No wonder people are so impatient with Buxton.

[Mike Sixel]

Buxton was the number 1 prospect in baseball for two years. No one compared him to Trout. Other top prospects seem to produce when they come up (Lindor and Correa being two examples that were not college players like Bryant).....so, no, it isn't about the media, or about anything other than, so far, he's been bad up in the majors. Really bad. I don't get why we should be anything other than disappointed so far. 

[jimmer]

 

I still think Buxton is a future all-star, and already pretty much is defensively (He needs to stop smashing into walls so much, but thats for another thread) I am seeing offensive improvement and am especially encouraged by the dropping strikeout rate.

 

The media did him no favors with the early comparisons to Mike Trout. Mike Trout could easily end up one of the top 10 players of all time! No wonder people are so impatient with Buxton.

By media, do you mean Twins media because nationally, I'm not sure I saw too much comparison to Trout.

 

In any event, we are seeing quite a few youngsters on other teams come up with hype and actually perform right out the gate.  With as high of rankings as he got in the prospect listings for years, I don't think it's unfair to be disappointed by what we've seen so far (while still believing he could be a very good player one day). 

 

If he was just any 22 year old player, that'd be different, but he was a top 2 prospect for 3 years.  Combining that with seeing youngsters dominate the sport today,  it's a bit hard to see him be so outmatched at the plate most of the time.  Ther was a time I was thinking he could be a Eric Davis type player (but healthier).  Now I'm thinking, perhaps more like Franklin Gutierrez.  Amazing defensive CF for years, but not much of a bat.

[wsnydes]

 

Buxton was the number 1 prospect in baseball for two years. No one compared him to Trout. Other top prospects seem to produce when they come up (Lindor and Correa being two examples that were not college players like Bryant).....so, no, it isn't about the media, or about anything other than, so far, he's been bad up in the majors. Really bad. I don't get why we should be anything other than disappointed so far. 

Disappointed so far...far too early to write him off.  Anyone doing that is crazy.

[70charger]

 

Good grief, let's not turn this into another "players the Twins whiffed on hindsight 20/20" thread.

Please?

 

Something something David Ortiz.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Something something David Ortiz.

Something something lets' not.

[wsnydes]

 

Something something lets' not.

I'm just going to forget that his comment was even made.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I'm just going to forget that his comment was even made.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

Thought this was going to be a batting approach advice post toward Rosario, Santana, Buxton, Escobar, Walker, and company.

[h2oface]

Patience is overrated. The Phillies gutted the team and are 6 games under.500 at the break. Something is systematically wrong with this organization and has been now for years. I keep seeing people bring up the fictitious "rebuild" that hasn't happened and never did. Terry Ryan continues to live in a fantasy world of mediocre veterans signed to block youth while options expire and prospects lose value while redundancies aren't identified and decisions made. We see electric stuff wasted because of a couple walks, and hitters not prepared mentally to make the final step. Over and over. Harper's and Trout's and Story's and Bryant's and Correa's and...... other similar talent shines as Twin's prospects don't seem ready, over and over. So screw patience. Terry Ryan is the common element over time of the failings. Time to be mad as hell and not take it anymore.