Santana trade rumors

[Dr. Evil]

I keep Irvin Santana and cut loose the Nolasco infection. Move May to the rotation.

[Jham]

You're forgetting that Hughes most likely comes back next spring, I believe. But the best thing this team could do would be to reinsert Trevor May into the rotation. Then you'd have an intriguing starting five of Berrios, May, Duffy, Hughes and Milone or most likely Pat Dean. Perhaps Alex Meyer if he ever gets found. They could also sign one or two low-end guys this offseason. Or perhaps one of the trades nets them a starter.

 

The problem with the Twins in recent years hasn't been spending, it's HOW they've spent. The team went out and got three mediocre starters when they'd have been better off giving those spots to young guys to develop them rather than let them waste away too long in AAA (Meyer), saving the money to go after the real top-end guys once the team is actually ready to contend.

 

I'd be thrilled if the team focused on developing young pitchers, then went out and signed a top-notch free agent starter who could lead the rotation.

Wait, is your idea to trade Nolasco for almost nothing, eat a bunch of contract, then sign another Nolasco? Serviceable staying pitching doesn't sign 1 year deals. Pelfreys do. If we're not sure young arms are ready, Milone is about as good add you can hope for, and everyone wants to trade him too.

[magiklair]

You have to keep him unless you can get something "Decent". He's been our most reliable starter on the team..

[Richie the Rally Goat]

You're forgetting that Hughes most likely comes back next spring, I believe. But the best thing this team could do would be to reinsert Trevor May into the rotation. Then you'd have an intriguing starting five of Berrios, May, Duffy, Hughes and Milone or most likely Pat Dean. Perhaps Alex Meyer if he ever gets found. They could also sign one or two low-end guys this offseason. Or perhaps one of the trades nets them a starter.

 

The problem with the Twins in recent years hasn't been spending, it's HOW they've spent. The team went out and got three mediocre starters when they'd have been better off giving those spots to young guys to develop them rather than let them waste away too long in AAA (Meyer), saving the money to go after the real top-end guys once the team is actually ready to contend.

 

I'd be thrilled if the team focused on developing young pitchers, then went out and signed a top-notch free agent starter who could lead the rotation.

stick a fork in Hughes. He'll still be around, but he's done. He got the Hail Mary pass of surgical procedures.

 

Here's my depiction of the diagnosis

 

Hughes: are you sure you didn't find anything?

Dr: not a thing, you're just old

Hughes: you must have found something, I'm only 30

Dr: ok, how about Thoracic Outlet Syndrome? No one can refute that

Hughes: sign me up!

[notoriousgod71]

 

You have to keep him unless you can get something "Decent". He's been our most reliable starter on the team..

 

 

Agreed. Unless you are clearly getting something useful for him what is the point of dealing him outside of a salary dump? If we trade him for minor league filler I am going to be upset. We have him for two more years. He is just one less piece we need to get if we are going to be competitive in the next two years.

[mikecgrimes]

 

You have to keep him unless you can get something "Decent". He's been our most reliable starter on the team..

 

Because of his age I disagree with this depending on how low your bar is for decent.  Replacing him will be a problem but I don't trust him to be anything more then average going forward.  You should be able to attract an offer worth at least gambling on but you will be lucky to get anything more then an A ball prospect or lower level prospects.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't care too much about moving Santana specifically, but we do need to clear room fairly quickly. Berrios deserved to be back up here yesterday, and May deserves a chance too.

[tobi0040]

I don't care too much about moving Santana specifically, but we do need to clear room fairly quickly. Berrios deserved to be back up here yesterday, and May deserves a chance too.

Agreed. The four guys that may be in the next decent rotation and should get reps are Berrios, May, Santana, and Gibson

 

I am not saying they will all be there, but those are the only guys that have not been ruled out (in AAA or on the roster).

 

I would DFA Nolasco and Milone. Promote Berrios and transition May back to the rotation, with Chargois taking the spot in the pen.

[gunnarthor]

from mlbtraderumors today:

"Potential trade candidate Ervin Santana tossed a complete-game shutout yesterday for the Twins, limiting the Athletics to two hits without a walk while tossing just 100 pitches. Santana dropped his ERA 44 points in the process and is now sporting a 1.63 ERA over his past four starts. Obviously, a nice four-start stretch isn’t going to undo all of the damage Santana did to his trade stock with a rocky start to the season, but 93 innings with a 4.06 ERA, 6.6 K/9, 2.5 BB/9 and a 42.9 percent ground-ball rate looks rather solid on the whole. He has about $6.5MM remaining on his salary in 2016 and is owed $13.5MM in each of the next two seasons, plus a $1MM buyout of a 2019 option. He’s not a cheap option, but given how few starters will be on the open market this winter, adding a durable mid-rotation cog could make sense for a number of contenders this summer."

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

from mlbtraderumors today:

"Potential trade candidate Ervin Santana tossed a complete-game shutout yesterday for the Twins, limiting the Athletics to two hits without a walk while tossing just 100 pitches. Santana dropped his ERA 44 points in the process and is now sporting a 1.63 ERA over his past four starts. Obviously, a nice four-start stretch isn’t going to undo all of the damage Santana did to his trade stock with a rocky start to the season, but 93 innings with a 4.06 ERA, 6.6 K/9, 2.5 BB/9 and a 42.9 percent ground-ball rate looks rather solid on the whole. He has about $6.5MM remaining on his salary in 2016 and is owed $13.5MM in each of the next two seasons, plus a $1MM buyout of a 2019 option. He’s not a cheap option, but given how few starters will be on the open market this winter, adding a durable mid-rotation cog could make sense for a number of contenders this summer."

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems Santana is offseason trade bait.

 

Not that he shouldn't be shopped at the deadline but given how the pitching market looks this offseason, Santana could be appealing to many teams.

 

It doesn't hurt that Santana will be owed $6m less after the season and that he might be able to rebuild some value if he continues pitching well and ends the season with an ERA in the threes.

 

Then again, I'm in no rush to be rid of Santana at all.

[Linus]

If someone wants to overpay for him I'll listen but otherwise I would keep him. I think the Twins could be decent next year and they simply don't have enough starters.

[Rosterman]

A team in need of a starter carrying over into next season could do worse. Santana ended the year fine. He's on a roll right now. He should give you expected consistency. And considering the free agent market in the winter, he could be a bargain. Basically you are getting a pitcher of his caliber on a two-year contract (after this season). Plus, you could still have an option of trading him yourself.

 

The other team should absorb his salary. He should be available for a couple of positive prospects. 

 

Let's just say I would answer the phone and carefully listen. Someone will make a play sooner rather than later for Santana...if the need for their team is a starter with experience. 

 

The Twins, right now, can live without Santana. They can live without Nolasco, but are afraid to let go of his salary.

 

Of course, when everyone goes on waivers in August, let's see what happens.

 

And, do you think the Rays will give us back Arcia to take on Jepsen?

 

[mazeville]

 

Wait, is your idea to trade Nolasco for almost nothing, eat a bunch of contract, then sign another Nolasco? Serviceable staying pitching doesn't sign 1 year deals. Pelfreys do. If we're not sure young arms are ready, Milone is about as good add you can hope for, and everyone wants to trade him too.

 

There are players who can and do sign one-year deals. And one year deals are great -- because they're only one year. 

 

But I'm not necessarily saying get rid of Nolasco. My view is that this team needs to make trades to get prospects, not to relieve themselves of salary. Santana will fetch a far better prospect than Nolasco. So trade Santana. Keep Nolasco as insurance until someone like Kohl Stewart or Steven Gonsalves, etc., can make the majors. 

[mazeville]

 

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems Santana is offseason trade bait.

 

Not that he shouldn't be shopped at the deadline but given how the pitching market looks this offseason, Santana could be appealing to many teams.

 

It doesn't hurt that Santana will be owed $6m less after the season and that he might be able to rebuild some value if he continues pitching well and ends the season with an ERA in the threes.

 

Then again, I'm in no rush to be rid of Santana at all.

 

This, though I still believe Santana would probably generate a better return at the deadline than during the offseason. 

 

I'm not in a hurry to get rid of Santana, either. But if you could conceivably get a good return, I think a team on pace to lose 108 games should probably do that. I feel the same way about Dozier. This team needs to regroup.

[Vanimal46]

Interesting tweet this afternoon from Jayson Stark of ESPN:

 

"Ervin Santana is the most likely Twin to get dealt. But hearing the same message from teams that have spoken to the Twins: They'll talk about a deal for just about anybody. Telling everyone, "If you've got any ideas, throw them out there.""

[Mike Sixel]

 

Interesting tweet this afternoon from Jayson Stark of ESPN:

 

"Ervin Santana is the most likely Twin to get dealt. But hearing the same message from teams that have spoken to the Twins: They'll talk about a deal for just about anybody. Telling everyone, "If you've got any ideas, throw them out there.""

 

UGH....we keep hearing this every year, that they Twins are passive. I don't get it.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Interesting tweet this afternoon from Jayson Stark of ESPN:

 

"Ervin Santana is the most likely Twin to get dealt. But hearing the same message from teams that have spoken to the Twins: They'll talk about a deal for just about anybody. Telling everyone, "If you've got any ideas, throw them out there.""

Doesn't surprise me.  A lot of things happen that we don't hear about. 

 

The thing is:  How do other teams value these players?

[nicksaviking]

 

UGH....we keep hearing this every year, that they Twins are passive. I don't get it.

 

I agree, and perhaps we're reading too much into that, but why can't it be the Twins that are compelled to come up with the ideas?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I agree, and perhaps we're reading too much into that, but why can't it be the Twins that are compelled to come up with the ideas?

 

certainly possible, but we've heard this before, from the FO, that:

 

a: they are waiting for calls

b: wait for the other team to have an idea....

 

If I was the GM, I'd know exactly what I want from TX for Santana, with like 5 options....all on my PC.

[Dman]

I don't think you trade Santana for a low level prospect.  Heck the team that trades for him can turn around next year and possibly trade him for a better prospect than they gave the Twins.  So a team would have give up something pretty good to get him otherwise we keep him because we need him for the next two years as well and can still possibly trade him for something good next year.  There just isn't a lot of reasons to trade Santana this year unless you think he will fall off of a cliff.  Will be interesting to see if some team digs deep and offers something good in trade.

[Vanimal46]

 

I agree, and perhaps we're reading too much into that, but why can't it be the Twins that are compelled to come up with the ideas?

That still shows the conservative approach TR has with trade discussions. Seems like he's waiting for the other GM to throw out a name, hope for an overpay, and jump on it. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I've made this observation elsewhere, but "Trader Terry" actually doesn't seem to do a whole lot of trading.

[Vanimal46]

 

I've made this observation elsewhere, but "Trader Terry" actually doesn't seem to do a whole lot of trading.

It seems like he'd be difficult to negotiate with. Not in the good way where other GM's fear his tactics and approach to trading. More annoyed that he doesn't know what he wants. 

The only way I can relate to this, and I know it's a long shot, is fantasy sports. If I'm a contending team for the playoffs and call up a buddy to make a trade, I would hope (s)he has an idea what they'd want for that specific player. If their follow-up is "I don't know, throw out some ideas" I'm probably not going to want to work that out. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It seems like he'd be difficult to negotiate with. Not in the good way where other GM's fear his tactics and approach to trading. More annoyed that he doesn't know what he wants. 

The only way I can relate to this, and I know it's a long shot, is fantasy sports. If I'm a contending team for the playoffs and call up a buddy to make a trade, I would hope (s)he has an idea what they'd want for that specific player. If their follow-up is "I don't know, throw out some ideas" I'm probably not going to want to work that out. 

 

I suspect it's more that he does know what he wants, and he wants more than other teams are willing to give... 

[jimmer]

I think it's quite possible that TR over-values his players and isn't in touch with reality when figuring out what his players are actually worth.  Probably why his trades are almost always of the non-impact kind.

[Kwak]

 

I think it's quite possible that TR over-values his players and isn't in touch with reality when figuring out what his players are actually worth.  Probably why his trades are almost always of the non-impact kind.

Overvalue his players? Is that what happened when the projection for the 2016 W/L record was presented? That "overvalued" concept explains  many things. 

[Vanimal46]

Kyle Lohse was DFA'd by the Rangers today after 2 horrific starts. Somebody called Nick Martinez is taking his place in their rotation who has very underwhelming numbers. 

Come on Twins, there's a market for Santana!

[HitInAPinch]

 

Kyle Lohse was DFA'd by the Rangers today after 2 horrific starts. Somebody called Nick Martinez is taking his place in their rotation who has very underwhelming numbers. 

Come on Twins, there's a market for Santana!

I suspect Rob is already all over that one

 

Edit:  Oh, wait.  Ervin is starting tonight.  Can't possibly trade him tonight!     

[nicksaviking]

 

Kyle Lohse was DFA'd by the Rangers today after 2 horrific starts. Somebody called Nick Martinez is taking his place in their rotation who has very underwhelming numbers. 

Come on Twins, there's a market for Santana!

 

I think the main take away from this is that Kyle Lohse is now available.

[mikelink45]

Take a look at the Yankees.  They did not wait for Chapman to start to burn out.  They bought him cheap and now they are flipping him for talent.  Buying older pitchers and expecting them to earn their high salaries just does not work.  We need to move on and change this system failure.  Go young, who cares about wins this year?  It is development and Santana, Hughes, Nolasco are not going to be around when the tide changes so why bother.  Get whatever you can and start the new philosophy that we are being sold with the TR firing.