Gardy or Mollie?

[Boom Boom]

One year into the Molitor regime, who ya got? Which manager would you rather have on your team?

 

I was surprised how little the manager change made a difference. The Twins used more defensive shifts under Molitor, and I don't recall any 2015 "empty the bench" games that was tradition under Gardenhire and Kelly. The bullpen usage under both managers was exactly the same, though.

 

I can't say which one is better, but I'll go with Gardy because it's a more controversial take.

[Winston Smith]

You can have Gardy!

[rghrbek]

Really too early to accurately get a feel on Molitor, but I do think he has potential to be better.  I was not a big Gardy fan at all, and am happy we've moved on.

 

I was disappointed we kept the inbreeding going, but at the same time respect Molitor, because I simply think he takes a more logical approach to the game than Gardy.

[Seth Stohs]

Baseball is baseball at the end of the day. Molitor shifted more,though that transition had been happening over a couple of years. 

 

Other than that not a ton of differences.

 

[gunnarthor]

 

One year into the Molitor regime, who ya got? Which manager would you rather have on your team?

I was surprised how little the manager change made a difference. The Twins used more defensive shifts under Molitor, and I don't recall any 2015 "empty the bench" games that was tradition under Gardenhire and Kelly. The bullpen usage under both managers was exactly the same, though.

I can't say which one is better, but I'll go with Gardy because it's a more controversial take.

Actually, Gardy and Molitor's bullpen use was a lot different.  Gardy was a pretty consistent one inning at a time guy with guys who knew their role.  Molitor used relief pitchers for multiple innings and was much more likely to use the "hot hand" at the time.  I don't think Gardy would have let Thompson make the roster over Theilbar or used Boyer either.  

 

But this group of players seemed a lot looser under Molitor than under Gardy.  Was that because of Molitor or Hunter or just young players getting their first crack or a combination?  Not sure.  But I like Molitor and hopefully he manages us to a WS.

[jimmer]

I would have preferred a manager from completely outside the organization, but between Molitor and Gardenhire, I prefer Molitor.

[Boom Boom]

Actually, Gardy and Molitor's bullpen use was a lot different. Gardy was a pretty consistent one inning at a time guy with guys who knew their role. Molitor used relief pitchers for multiple innings and was much more likely to use the "hot hand" at the time. I don't think Gardy would have let Thompson make the roster over Theilbar or used Boyer either.

 

But this group of players seemed a lot looser under Molitor than under Gardy. Was that because of Molitor or Hunter or just young players getting their first crack or a combination? Not sure. But I like Molitor and hopefully he manages us to a WS.

I think the main reason the team seemed looser is that they won more than they have in recent seasons.

 

My comment about bullpen use was in regards to Molitor's strict, Gardenhire-like adherence to when the closer pitched. Also there was that time Mollie brought in AJ Achter to face Mike Trout with the bases loaded in the 2nd inning of a game they needed to win, because it was the 2nd inning and you save your best relievers for late.

 

Keeping Thompson around wasn't really up to the manager, but i remember guys like Brian Bass and Jeff Gray inexplicably hanging around under Gardenhire.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Actually, Gardy and Molitor's bullpen use was a lot different.  Gardy was a pretty consistent one inning at a time guy with guys who knew their role.  Molitor used relief pitchers for multiple innings and was much more likely to use the "hot hand" at the time.  I don't think Gardy would have let Thompson make the roster over Theilbar or used Boyer either.

You're right on the multiple innings thing, it didn't turn out to be a big deal with Perkins, but you can see it in Fien's usage.

 

I doubt Gardy would have approached things very differently with Thompson and Boyer, though.  He usually had better bullpen pitchers so it's easy to forget, but he used Tony Fiore, Bobby Keppel, etc. when he had to.

[Loosey]

I still hope that Mientkiewicz is the manager of the future.  I thought Molitor did fine last year, but bullpen usage puzzled me at times.  I think being relatively young, Dougy Baseball could hold the attention of the team for quite a while and maybe bring a fresh outlook if Molitor decides managing ain't his thing after a year or two..

[Kwak]

My how memories have faded-- three catchers, 13 pitchers, endless SF bunts, trips to the mound after a BB, "play everybody" one day a week, If a substitute starts instead of the regular--he bats in the same line-up spot,  Cf is the designated player  for the #1 slot in the line-up, DH is never an assigned role--it used to rotate players... .

[Otto von Ballpark]

To be fair, the 3 catchers thing was overblown -- the Twins actually did that pretty rarely, generally only for a few weeks when Mauer had been recently injured.

[gunnarthor]

 

My how memories have faded-- three catchers, 13 pitchers, endless SF bunts, trips to the mound after a BB, "play everybody" one day a week, If a substitute starts instead of the regular--he bats in the same line-up spot,  Cf is the designated player  for the #1 slot in the line-up, DH is never an assigned role--it used to rotate players... .

Most of these things are false narratives.  Over Gardy's tenure, the Twins were about middle of the road in sacrifices in the AL (if you count the NL, they were bottom third) - and behind the White Sox, Tigers and Royals.  The reason we think they did that is because during the same span they were first in all baseball (including the NL) in bunt hits and success rate - by a pretty good margin, actually.  But this had a lot more to do with what the FO gave Gardy than Gardy himself.  When he had a good team in 2010, for instance, with no piranhas, he bunted very little.  The Yankees and Red Sox had more sacrifices than we did.  

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

I'll take Molitor over Gardenhire. But I'd take Kelly over both!

 

 

[D. Hocking]

Gardy was much more creative when coming up with player nicknames.

 

I don't think Gardy was to blame for most of the Twins woes, but I do think he was burned out and there was a black cloud over his head the last couple of years which I think that seeped into the club house a little.  I think Molitor helped change that and it was not just a smoke machine that changed the club house environment (this is largely -- or all -- speculation on my part).

 

I was also hoping for an outside candidate and did not agree with everything he did, but he is a smart guy and I think he will make adjustments (a lot of the managerial aspects of the job were new to him since he really did not manage at lower levels).

 

[To give Gardy some credit, Paul is going to benefit from some talented players the next few years -- Gardy had some less than ideal teams during the 2011 - 2014 stretch.]

 

[REPETE]

MOLLIE!!!  If for no other reason we saw guys playing every day.  No more of a guy getting a hang nail on Tuesday, then sitting out Tues & Weds, so he could get 3 days rest with the Thurs off day.  

I also don't miss one of the pirahnas pinch running at 1B for one of the big boppers in the 9th inning of a tie game with 2 outs.  He'd never make it to 2nd, and then we'd be stuck with said pirahna batting with 2 on, 2 out in the 11th. 

I believe Mollie has completely changed the attitude of this team.  We'll see how it goes this year, without a Hunter in the locker room.

[Vanimal46]

I'm of the belief that managers in baseball don't play a significant factor in team success. There are a select few game changing coaches in each of the 4 major sports that simply know how to manage a roster and get the most out of every player. In baseball I would say those 2 game changers are Joe Maddon and Bruce Bochy. The rest, IMO will sink or swim with the roster they are given. 

I would say Mollie is the best choice going forward. I'm in agreement with Denny Hocking - that Gardy was burned out and took most of the heat for having a below average roster to work with. The Twins needed a new voice in the clubhouse, and though I wish it would have been a voice from the outside of the country club, Mollie has done a good job so far. 

[Platoon]

The change was not as dramatic as I thought it would be. But I think most of managing is handling players, and putting them where they can succeed. But the manager has little say over staff in today's game. The GM makes a lot of the decisions based on payroll, and service time. And the manager smiles and says what a wonderful job the GM is doing, and if they lose its all on the manager. At least you do if you wish to remain in the pool of former managers eligible to be employed! Gardy had gotten stale, and lost his mojo. It was time for a change. My choice would have been Dougie M., but no one asked me at the time.

[Thrylos]

 

One year into the Molitor regime, who ya got? Which manager would you rather have on your team?

I was surprised how little the manager change made a difference.

 

Just about 13 games in the standings with pretty much the same team...

 

I wonder how far in the post-season would the Twins go, had Ryan made the correct choice for manager back in 2002...

[jimmer]

 

Just about 13 games in the standings with pretty much the same team...

 

I wonder how far in the post-season would the Twins go, had Ryan made the correct choice for manager back in 2002...

was it really pretty much the same team? 

 

Even then, we had fortunate sequencing.  I wouldn't count on that again.   This year Mollie will have more or less the same team as 2015 (minus a RF who provided minimal value).  

 

The rest of the teams in our division I believe have improved their teams.

[Craig Arko]

Billy Martin.

 

Oh, wait, he's dead.

[Thrylos]

 

was it really pretty much the same team? 

 

Even then, we had fortunate sequencing.  I wouldn't count on that again.   This year Mollie will have more or less the same team as 2015 (minus a RF who provided minimal value).  

 

The rest of the teams in our division I believe have improved their teams.

 

We shall see about 2016, but here is another thing:  The 2014 team was 5th in the AL as far as OPS went and 15th as far as ERA.  The 2015 team was 13th in the AL in OPS and 10th in ERA.

 

So, I'd say, if anything the 2014 team might have have the advantage here.   Pitching was much better (despite Ryan doing nothing about the Perkins situation) than in 2014 and Molitor, even with a bunch of hitters under-performing, took advantage of the situations better than Gardenhire.   Do not forget that Andy came with Gardy and with Gardy getting the boot, an additional blessing is that this team got a better pitching coach...   The rotation was essentially the same, so was the bullpen compared to 2014 and the results, were much different....

 

[Monkeypaws]

For me, Molitor had an intellectual edge that Gardy was lacking. 

 

Gardy was all emo.

 

Molitor all the way.

[Kwak]

"...essentially the same team..."--No.  I have posted frequently that Gardenhire should be fired--years ago! (and to take Andy with him).  But, the addition of a bona fide hitter in Sano, the addition of Jepsen, E. Santana, and  Duffey was a demonstrative improvement over the 2014 team.  You must compare apples to apples for the 2014 and 2015 teams.  "Essentially the same team.." implies a neglible difference in personnel, the use of team statistics is comparing the collective performance.   If team performance is the criteria--simply compare the W/L records which is a distillation of all of the team peformance(s).  In summary, the addition of Sano, E.Santana, Jepsen, and Duffey were substantial changes (improvements)--and the 2015 team was indeed much improved over the 2014 team.  Though, I will claim that Molitor and his P.C. also contributed significantly to the 2015 team's improvement.

[Thrylos]

 

"...essentially the same team..."--No.  I have posted frequently that Gardenhire should be fired--years ago! (and to take Andy with him).  But, the addition of a bona fide hitter in Sano, the addition of Jepsen, E. Santana, and  Duffey was a demonstrative improvement over the 2014 team. 

 

have you checked out the subtraction of Danny Santana, Kennys Vargas, Phil Hughes, Kurt Suzuki et al from the 2014 team?  

 

 

[notoriousgod71]

 

To be fair, the 3 catchers thing was overblown -- the Twins actually did that pretty rarely, generally only for a few weeks when Mauer had been recently injured.

 

 

These seem like opposing thoughts.

[bird]

The 2015 team was both different and better than 2014, but even if one bought the argument that they were somehow the "same", other variables make it fruitless to compare the performance of the two managers based on a look at the records

 

There were in-game differences, but I think in-game management is an over-rated aspect of a manager's performance anyway. As far as Molitor's performance in managing the clubhouse, which I believe was a strength of Gardy's, it's tough to get a read on Molitor's performance, but it certainly appears at first blush that he's not experiencing any big problems. Hunter was almost universally lauded for his contribution to clubhouse morale and chemistry, so it will be interesting to get some glimpses of that aspect of Molitor's job performance in Hunter's absence.

 

I don't put much stock in any person's viewpoint about the manager's overall performance unless the opining person is relying on the opinions of players and others who have witnessed the environment firsthand. Making judgments based on things like how the manager uses his bullpen and bench doesn't cut it for me. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

These seem like opposing thoughts.

Ha, yeah, I kinda left myself open for that one. What I should have said, only just after Mauer had missed a large chunk of time (so, beginning of 2005, May 2009, etc.). Relatively infrequent.

[Oldgoat_MN]

My only issue with Mollie is the stolen base attempts.

 

70 stolen bases and 38 caught stealing?

 

Not every runner is him in his prime.

[Jham]

Hard to judge at this point.  Every manager gets fired.  Doesn't mean you're a bad manager, just means your message gets stale, change shakes things up and gets more effort. Gardenhire was a much better in-game-manager.  Molitor seemed unprepared for many late game situations.  Suzuki striking out to end a game late in the season with Vargas representing the tying run in the dugout comes to mind.  

Gardy seemed much more willing to go against the organization. Specifically, he called for Meyer in the pen 2 years ago, and Santana not to be a shortstop (i think this ultimately got him fired).  Now Meyer is in the pen, and Santana is back in the outfield after submarining the infield for half a season last year.  Gardy is the better manager by a wide margin at this point.  As Molitor gains experience, this gap should bridge.  We bounced back from devastating losses and sweeps to play well.  I'm interested in seeing what happens now without Hunter keeping the clubhouse loose and providing mentorship.  Can Molitor provide that?  Gardy was pretty even keeled with an ability to get firey when needed, overly loyal, and decidedly old school.  Close call right now.

[alhweiner]

 

Hard to judge at this point.  Every manager gets fired.  

But only one of them in this comparison has been fired.