Danny Santana: Outfielder?

[stringer bell]

I have no problem with DanSan being considered as much an outfielder as an infielder. I expect him to be somewhere between 2014 and 2015 offensively and if he can be adequate defensively, he can be very valuable.

[Kwak]

I think it's an announcement that Santana is no longer in the mix to ever be the regular SS.  The Twins are deep at this position so some pruning is necessary. 

[Jham]

I'm more concerned with Danny Santana going back to hitting 27 doubles and 7 HRs than going back to the outfield.  How do you go from 7 bombs to none?  He needs to swing harder and stop just trying not to strike out.  Maybe sometime in the outfield will help.  I don't get how either.  I just want it fixed.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I hope you're right. Santana looked fine in CF and he's fine in a utility role IMO.

 

Sano's defense OTOH is going to look more like Bartlett-Nunez-Escobar's I'm afraid.

 

I guess we will find out. i tend to think he'll be just fine out there.

[TheLeviathan]

Because they probably view Santana as someone who can play CF and other OF positions at least adequately defensively, allowing them to carry a more bat first guy as another OF.

Danny Santana: defensive OF replacement.

 

This team doesn't learn.....

[drjim]

 

Danny Santana: defensive OF replacement.

This team doesn't learn.....

 

Actually, since they are declaring this before the year and giving him plenty of reps, as opposed to just sticking him out there, I would say they have learned.

 

He's got great speed and a cannon arm, he'll be able to handle part time OF fine.

[Boom Boom]

This sounds like a permanent move to me. I have to wonder, what value does Santana have to the Twins as an outfielder? By all estimations, Buxton should be up for good at some point this year, so CF is going to be occupied, and Santana to a corner spot seems like a dumb idea to me.

 

If he'll be a backup, it isn't that hard to find bench outfielders, even ones who have options.

 

I guess my point is that maybe the Twins should just cut their losses on him and let Santana go.

[nicksaviking]

I prefer the flexibility of the super utility route. When Buxton takes the CF job, I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins go the Jarrod Dyson mold with Santana. Of course the problem is Santana is neither the base runner or defensive replacement that Dyson is.

[dbminn]

Santana is slated to be a utility player. Sounds like he'll play more in the OF than SS. Seems like a better plan than DFA.

 

Santana just turned 25 years old. He improved as a CF during his first year and he'll get better as time goes on. His speed fits nicely on a team with more than enough plodders. He suffered through some adversity in 2015 but he went to AAA and recovered with the bat (143 WRC+). He still has a chance to be a solid contributor by using his athleticism wherever they put him in the field. Not an impossible task (Molitor played seven positions during his career).

 

Ryan is giving him the best chance to make the team.  I hope he does well and sticks with the Twins.

[dbminn]

 

I prefer the flexibility of the super utility route. When Buxton takes the CF job, I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins go the Jarrod Dyson mold with Santana. Of course the problem is Santana is neither the base runner or defensive replacement that Dyson is.

 

I agree with the super utility role. Gotta partially disagree on the Dyson comparison. Santana has shown the potential to be as good on the base paths as Dyson and he has a better hitting history. Dyson will always be the better OF defender but Santana has a chance to be more valuable because of his bat and his middle IF experience.

 

Sadly, Santana's value might not be realized with the Twins. Dyson didn't become a full-time major leaguer until he was 28 years old. Santana will be long gone if he doesn't reach his potential early this year.

[jorgenswest]

Santana can be very valuable to a team in a bench role where he can play an adequate 2B,SS and CF. Emilio Bonifacio was a useful player through his 20s. Santana can provide similar value while under team control.

 

With three and four man benches teams often find little room to carry a bench hitter or platoon option on a corner. If Santana can play both CF and 2B/SS it opens up the opportunity to carry an extra corner guy. It is up to the Twins to utilize the opportunity he provides the bench with his versatility.

[Boom Boom]

Obviously there's no reason to cut him loose until the end of spring training at the soonest. But if the Twins are going to have him focus on outfield, then you have to wonder what his ceiling is. Good bench outfielder? Adequate CF?

 

If he reached that ceiling with another team, would the Twins regret letting him go?

[Riverbrian]

A couple of thoughts

 

1. Santana doesn't have a starting job. SS/CF utility makes perfect sense and I've thought this all along. None of this surprises me at all... I assumed most of us assumed this. 

 

2. If "what position you play" matters at the plate. Send those players to a psychologist. 

 

[Craig Arko]

If "what position you play" matters at the plate. Send those players to a psychologist.

 

Lotsa neurotic NL pitchers.

[EddieMatthews]

Good!  The Twins have a bunch of second tier players that need to have their value resolved.  Give them a defined role in Spring Training.  Let them prove themselves.  Santana and Arcia are out of options and soon will be out of time with Kepler, Polanco, Buxton knocking on the door.  Nolasco (who will likely be a starter despite the hopes and wishes of many posters including me) needs to fish or cut bait too.  

 

If they can establish value in ST and in April, they may have some trade value.  I don't see the Twins retaining them long in 2016.  They either have trade value or are released.  They need to play to allow the decision to be made.  I hope that decision is made in March or April.

[Danchat]

Now that I think about this move a little more, I've come up with a few things. Keeping Nunez makes sense as he's now the main utility infielder. 

 

Also, is there going to be a battle between Arcia and Santana for a single roster spot? I could see a Murphy-Arcia-Nunez-Santana bench, though I'd like to see Vargas on the bench too.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I still believe there's a solid future for Santana as a futility guy... Kind of a "Ben Zobrist without the bat" type player. You know, basically Denny Hocking.

 

If he can shore up his defensive play at SS and hit somewhere near league average, that's a guy I want on my team all day long. He has the potential to be all things to the team: defensive sub all over the field (if he figures out SS, I'd work him at 2B as well), won't embarrass himself with the bat, and crazy-speed as a pinch-runner in late innings.

 

The kid is only entering his age 25 season. There's plenty of room to grow into a useful piece. I'd like to see the Twins hold on to Santana all year and then rotate him into super-sub status in 2017, taking Nunez's spot on the roster.

[Thrylos]

This is another example for TR's deficiencies as a GM and his aversion of selling high on young players. To anyone who followed Santana through the years it was obvious that his ceiling is that of a utility player in the majors, so after that one over his head season, he should had been out the door, before they will be forced to lose him on waivers when he just is not good enough to make the team.

 

OF defense really killed them in 2014 and no, Santana was not adequate at CF any way you cut it (all metrics out there were negative/below average).  He was better at CF than (lets say) Parmelee or Cuddyer were, but no.  A centerfielder he is not.  Can he become one?  The problem is that right now he is not even close to being a decent utility player, because you have 2 kinds of those:  The ones who are really good with the glove and not good with the bat (think of LNP) and the ones who are good with the bat to be able to forgive some deficiencies with the glove (think Zobrist or even Nunez.)   Santana is neither.  His glove stinks and his bat is suspect.   I do not foresee his glove improving much, so if his bat improves (like it did at AAA last season,) he will be fighting with Nunez for a job...

 

Just don't see it.

[Kwak]

 

This is another example for TR's deficiencies as a GM and his aversion of selling high on young players. To anyone who followed Santana through the years it was obvious that his ceiling is that of a utility player in the majors, so after that one over his head season, he should had been out the door, before they will be forced to lose him on waivers when he just is not good enough to make the team.

 

OF defense really killed them in 2015 and no, Santana was not adequate at CF any way you cut it (all metrics out there were negative/below average).  He was better at CF than (lets say) Parmelee or Cuddyer were, but no.  A centerfielder he is not.  Can he become one?  The problem is that right now he is not even close to being a decent utility player, because you have 2 kinds of those:  The ones who are really good with the glove and not good with the bat (think of LNP) and the ones who are good with the bat to be able to forgive some deficiencies with the glove (think Zobrist or even Nunez.)   Santana is neither.  His glove stinks and his bat is suspect.   I do not foresee his glove improving much, so if his bat improves (like it did at AAA last season,) he will be fighting with Nunez for a job...

 

Just don't see it.

Amen on this.

 

Santana will be replaced next year.  Rosario will become the 4th OF, the cream from the middle INF prospects will rise leaving the dumpster for Santana.  Somebody else will sign him and so what?  The Twins need to move away from evaluating bench players as "wins" for the FO.  Stars are needed from the system and the Plouffe's of the team grade about a C+ for the system's performance standard.  

[Platoon]

I think this is the first step in Buxtons trip to Rochester in late March. The only thing that would prevent that is a lights out spring. And I assume they save service time, but I am not sure. There is no other reason to "convert" Santana to an OF. He can play there as a utility man also. The Twins often start the season in experimental mode, I prefer the term extended spring training. Then about May they seem to get serious and tweak their lineup. Everyone know games in April don't really count in the standings. You can always make those up after the ASG!

[Brock Beauchamp]

This is another example for TR's deficiencies as a GM and his aversion of selling high on young players. To anyone who followed Santana through the years it was obvious that his ceiling is that of a utility player in the majors, so after that one over his head season, he should had been out the door, before they will be forced to lose him on waivers when he just is not good enough to make the team.

The gaping hole in this train of thought is "If you see giant red flags of potential regression, so do opposing GMs."

 

If your complaint about Ryan is predicated on other GMs having an IQ under 70 and not understanding the game of baseball, your argument is probably flawed.

 

No one was going to offer value for a rookie with a MiLB OPS around .700 and a MLB BABIP over .400. No one. Not even Arizona.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think this is the first step in Buxtons trip to Rochester in late March. The only thing that would prevent that is a lights out spring. And I assume they save service time, but I am not sure.

Nope. Buxton would have to stay down almost the whole season to have any affect on service time, I think. You have to remember he was collecting MLB service time from June onward last year, except for a couple weeks in AAA.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Santana's fall from grace reminds me a bit of the just-traded Jean Segura.

[drjim]

 

Nope. Buxton would have to stay down almost the whole season to have any affect on service time, I think. You have to remember he was collecting MLB service time from June onward last year, except for a couple weeks in AAA.

 

He would have to be down at least until August. It isn't happening.

 

If Buxton starts in AAA it is 100% performance.

[drjim]

 

Santana's fall from grace reminds me a bit of the just-traded Jean Segura.

 

That was my thought too, but Segura was better, both in minors and majors aside from the brief babip infusion, and can play a better SS.

[Dantes929]

 

I'm not accusing you of doing this (you may be), but its funny to me the people (Terry Ryan?) who honestly believe Santana is going to be able to hit as an OFer, but can't as a SS.,,, Yet from the other side of their mouth tell us Sano's move to OF won't effect his bat at all. 

 

Frankly I don't think it really matters - but you can't have it both ways

You must be new here to think we can't talk out of both sides of our mouth.   If in fact moves do affect at bats there is still nothing that says Sano won't be affected to the good.    Santana is fast with a rocket arm and i think just as likely to be a natural outfielder as infielder.   Sano is pretty fast also with a rocket arm and I don't know why he would be considered more of a natural infielder rather than outfielder either.  I'm not sure he is a natural either.   We do know he can hit and hopefully that is what he will be focusing on.  If he can catch fly balls all the better bu if he cannot they will just find a different spot to put him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

That was my thought too, but Segura was better, both in minors and majors aside from the brief babip infusion, and can play a better SS.

Certainly. Just thought there were some parallels. Have no idea what it means for Santana.

[Boom Boom]

I still believe there's a solid future for Santana as a futility guy... Kind of a "Ben Zobrist without the bat" type player. You know, basically Denny Hocking.

 

If he can shore up his defensive play at SS and hit somewhere near league average, that's a guy I want on my team all day long. He has the potential to be all things to the team: defensive sub all over the field (if he figures out SS, I'd work him at 2B as well), won't embarrass himself with the bat, and crazy-speed as a pinch-runner in late innings.

 

The kid is only entering his age 25 season. There's plenty of room to grow into a useful piece. I'd like to see the Twins hold on to Santana all year and then rotate him into super-sub status in 2017, taking Nunez's spot on the roster.

I guess I don't see how Santana is going to shore up his infield defense while the organization has him focusing on playing the outfield.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I guess I don't see how Santana is going to shore up his infield defense while the organization has him focusing on playing the outfield.

I'd be shocked if Santana didn't get a fair number of infield innings in 2016.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Ryan needs to start dealing some of these young guys at their peak (true, easier said than done). Or at least deal them for something of value, while they still have value. 

 

The Twins outfield for the next couple years looks to be: Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Sano. All have the possibility of contributing this year and having good MLB careers, but 4 outfielders is 1 too many. To say nothing of the other OF's in the system, free agency, or the log jam at corner infield and DH. 

 

A fun exercise would be to go back and look at the reactions when the Royals traded away top prospect Wil Myers for James Shields.

 

The Royals must have had a feeling, or knew something before any other of the teams caught on, and they made a pretty bold move to trade him.