Ian Desmond

[labcrazy]

I am curious if he might be a fit for the Twins? He had a good last half of the year after a terrible start to 2015. He has been in the upper tier of shortstops for several years. While I have no problem with Escobar at short I do believe Desmond would be a large upgrade and allow Escobar to be our super utility guy.

[gunnarthor]

Desmond is going to get a nice contract but not from us.  I don't think it'd work - he has some nice pop but he does strike out a ton and the AL is harder than the NL.  I'm ok with Escobar and trying to make improvements elsewhere.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

What money and trade ammo the team has needs to be focused on the bullpen and the catching position.

[Vanimal46]

if Desmond wants a multi-year contract, it probably won't be with the Twins. However, if he's looking for a 1 year deal in order to rebuild his value for 2017 free agency, bring him in to talk. 

[Steve Lein]

Meh, I'd roll with the guy on the team already who has been as-good or better offensively (per OPS+) the past two years and is under team control through 2019.

 

 

[HitInAPinch]

How many more times does Eduardo Escobar have to prove himself ??

[Shaitan]

I'd only look for a middle infielder if he's an annual all-star. Otherwise, roll the dice on some form of Escobar/Santana/Polanco being at least league average and, fingers crossed, maturing and getting better.

 

 

[jokin]

 

if Desmond wants a multi-year contract, it probably won't be with the Twins. However, if he's looking for a 1 year deal in order to rebuild his value for 2017 free agency, bring him in to talk. 

 

Absolutely.  Major upgrade at the key position on the field, with Desmond highly incentivized to make good. Veteran leadership. "Dozier to Dozier"  sounds like a good infield combo to start a DP.  The Twins regain the lost draft pick after making a QO to Desmond.  Money available to spend with retirement of Torii. Do it.

[jokin]

 

How many more times does Eduardo Escobar have to prove himself ??

 

At least a dozen more.

[twinsnorth49]

 

How many more times does Eduardo Escobar have to prove himself ??

As many times as it takes for someone to be proven right about him.

[nicksaviking]

After watching KC frustrate the opposition by refusing to strike out, I think the Twins need to start figuring out how to reduce their strikeout numbers, Desmond might help them set a new team record in that category.

[Reider]

 

How many more times does Eduardo Escobar have to prove himself ??

Great question. As someone who's been talking up Pedro Florimon and Danny Santana's defensive skill sets over the last couple of years, it's only fair that I give credit where it is due. Escobar goes out there and gets the job done. He doesn't have the best range or the strongest arm, but he is a good hitter and has been reliable on defense. I wouldn't have any problem with Escobar being the starting SS in 2016.

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't have any problem with the Twins upgrading the SS position either. However, it is a lower priority than upgrading our bullpen, starting rotation, and catcher positions. Also, with Torii Hunter retiring, it might also be lower than finding a starting outfielder. Offensively, the Twins need to think about finding a better lead off hitter.

[Platoon]

I agree that SS is not of the immediate need that some of the other spots are, but it's not like EE is such a fixture there that it's not out of the realm of possibility. Plus almost the first point anyone makes about EE is how good an offensive SS he is. The first words I want to hear about any SS, is how good a defensive SS he is. Then if you wish we can discuss hitting. It's the premier defensive position in baseball. It's not that he can't play it, it's just that I would keep looking!

[twinsnorth49]

 

Great question. As someone who's been talking up Pedro Florimon and Danny Santana's defensive skill sets over the last couple of years, it's only fair that I give credit where it is due. Escobar goes out there and gets the job done. He doesn't have the best range or the strongest arm, but he is a good hitter and has been reliable on defense. I wouldn't have any problem with Escobar being the starting SS in 2016.

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't have any problem with the Twins upgrading the SS position either. However, it is a lower priority than upgrading our bullpen, starting rotation, and catcher positions. Also, with Torii Hunter retiring, it might also be lower than finding a starting outfielder. Offensively, the Twins need to think about finding a better lead off hitter.

When did this myth about Escobar not having a very strong arm start and why does it perpetuate? I have never seen any evidence that it's true. Also, I believe his UZR and defensive runs saved were decidedly  above average in both 2014 and 15.

[DaveW]

Desmond make sense, but only if you end up trading Dozier to the Yankees for Sanchez and an arm.

[labcrazy]

 

Desmond make sense, but only if you end up trading Dozier to the Yankees for Sanchez and an arm.

That's exactly where my original thought was generated from. I should have been more clear.  That would allow double EE to move to second. Doziers second half struggles concern me.

[Reider]

 

When did this myth about Escobar not having a very strong arm start and why does it perpetuate? I have never seen any evidence that it's true. Also, I believe his UZR and defensive runs saved were decidedly  above average in both 2014 and 15.

I think you may have misread or misunderstood my wording. I'm not trying to perpetuate any myth. I am merely calling it how I see it. What I said was "He doesn't have the best range or the strongest arm." He does have decent range and a fairly strong arm, but he does not have the strongest arm in the MLB nor does he have the best range. Not even close. This does not mean that he has the worst arm and the worst range in the MLB either! That's not what I nor anyone else is claiming. I'm not trying to paint him as a player with inadequate skills, who just so happens to have a good work ethic and focus.

 

He has a respectable defensive skillset. He also has a respectable offensive skillset. His determination to be succesful is admirable. And this is why I would be in favor of him being the starting SS in 2016. However, it is a fact that he does not have the strongest arm or best range in the league. In fact he doesn't even have the strongest arm or best range in the Twins organization. Florimon had him beat at both, Danny Santana has him beat at both (if only Danny could get his mind straight). Have you seen Sano throw a ball to first base? He throws a rocket. Dozier's range is impressive. And then there's players in the minor league system who I haven't even seen play yet.

 

Escobars defensive skill set is very respectable, just not as impressive as other players I've seen on the team or around the league. I"m not trying to say that he has a noodle arm. If I didn't respect his arm I wouldn't be in favor of him being our starting SS in 2016.

[twinsnorth49]

You literally meant he doesn't have the strongest arm in MLB? .................ok then.

[Reider]

 

You literally meant he doesn't have the strongest arm in MLB? .................ok then.

I'l give you an example. There are a few pitchers in the league who have 100mph fastballs. Some people enjoy watching the heat. There's also a lot of pitchers who throw in the low to mid 90's that have good control and / or have other good pitches than the fast ball. These pitchers are fun to watch in their own way as well. Then there's the guys that throw high 80's (e.g. Andrew Albers) who may pitch in the majors for a year or two, but just aren't good enough elsewhere to compensate for their weaker fast ball.

 

 

I'm not saying that Escobar's arm is too weak for SS. He has a strong enough arm and decent enough range to go along with his work ethic and reliability to play SS at the MLB level, which makes him a solid choice moving forward. However, no, his arm is not in the upper eschelon of the league. And as I said already, he doesn't even have the best arm or range in the Twins' organization. But that's okay, he's a very well rounded player and gets the job done.

 

What I"m trying to say is that he hasn't really had the same flashy wow factor for me like a Florimon, Santana, or the Dozier of late. However, the one thing Escobar appears to have over the first two mentioned is a good mental game. He works hard, seems to have his head in the right spot and it's paying off for him, similarly to the way Doziers work ethic and mental toughness has done wonders for him. It's possible that we may continue seeing Escobar improve if he is the starting SS moving forward. He plays with confidence, which is why I have confidence in him, even though he doesn't have the best defensive tool set.

[twinsnorth49]

He has a strong enough arm to be a legitimate MLB SS, the rest is just a bunch of noise

 

If he continues to ops in the neighbourhood of the. 754 he did this year and. 721 the previous year, his defense is more than passable.

[Reider]

 

He has a strong enough arm to be a legitimate MLB SS

Which is what I have said all along.

 

He's good enough, but his defensive tool set is not elite, which is fine by me since he's such a well rounded player.

[jsteve96]

 

Desmond make sense, but only if you end up trading Dozier to the Yankees for Sanchez and an arm.

best idea I've seen all night and its 4;20 AM........ Sanchez a good C for years Dozier doesn't have much more coming to him

[AlwaysinModeration]

Pretty quiet on the Ian Desmond front. I know people love to love Escobar, but Desmond has a much better track record than Escobar. Maybe with the down year the Twins could get Desmond for 4/60? He put up 3.5 WAR per year 2012-2014, whereas Escobar has put up 2WAR once. I'm also concerned that Escobar will hit below 250 this year. Thoughts? Obviously a longshot. But the Twins aren't majorly improving at catcher...so improving another up-the-middle spot would be nice.

[jimmer]

 

When did this myth about Escobar not having a very strong arm start and why does it perpetuate? I have never seen any evidence that it's true. Also, I believe his UZR and defensive runs saved were decidedly  above average in both 2014 and 15.

At shortstop, his defensive runs saved in 2014 was -6 and 2 in 2015.  2.1 UZR in 2014  and 2.6 UZR in 2015.  

 

Overall, he had 1.5 WAR in 2015.  Almost a full run lower than 2014.  He's averaged a hair under 2 WAR in the last two years. 1-2 WAR is considered a role player.  He is not clearly a starting type player.  He is borderline starting player.  

 

Ian Desmond had an off year in 2015 for sure (or at least erratic), but was worth over 4 WAR in 2012, 2013 and 2014.

 

There is no reason we shouldn't look at all avenues to improve, even at shortstop.

[DaveW]

Escobar is the exact guy you look to sell high on (assuming you can replace him) Desmond would be a great get for the Twins and a clear upgrade to the position.

 

Sign Desmond, trade Plouffe and Escobar for some C and Pitching help.

[beckmt]

Do not need to buy high on a player is might be a slight upgrade.  Escobar is fine for me until one of the better shortstops arrive from the minors(expect 2017 - 2018) for that to happen(Gordon is the most likely, but not the only choice).  If you have to spend the money a 1 - 2 year contract for an outfielder who wants to reestablish value and same for a bullpen piece or two, but do not give long term contracts this year, when good players may well by coming from the minors in the next 2 years..

[Riverbrian]

If I was the GM

 

I'd sign him to play 3B and give him occasional starts at SS and 2B 

 

Then I'd trade Plouffe. 

 

If I didn't get Desmond... Oh Well. 

 

It would give the lineup more flexibility. Sano could get some starts at 3B when Desmond moves to 2B for example and then Dozier could get a game off every once in awhile. Arcia in the lineup etc. etc. 

 

As for the Lions share of SS Starts. I'm going with Escobar.

 

Desmond's hands turn into bricks on occasion. 

[Eris]

 

If I was the GM

 

...

 

Then I'd trade Plouffe. 

 

 

Todd Frazier was both offensively and defensively a better player than Plouffe.  I think if the Twins got this return for Plouffe people on TD would be disappointed.  Don't expect to trade Plouffe for an above average starting pitcher or a future above average catcher.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/reds-sell-todd-frazier-for-low-upside-in-three-way-deal/

[nicksaviking]

Desmond's OPS as taken a serious nose dive each of the past four years and his power, speed and on base skills are all clearly fleeting while the already concerning strikeouts are rising. Now the rumors are that his agent is trying to sell teams on him being a super utility player ala Ben Zobrist.

 

The only reason I can think of that an agent would try to sell teams on the idea that his shortstop client would make a good super utility player is because every team he talks to says the guy can't play SS full time anymore.

 

I don't know how, but this guy took one great year (2012) and one really good year (2013) and somehow built the myth that he was some really exceptional ballplayer despite his other five years saying otherwise.

[Loosey]

I like Escobar and think would be just fine as our starting shortstop.  I see Escobar as probably hovering around middle of pack in terms of shortstops.  That being said signing Desmond (who is better) would give the Twins some flexibility they don't currently have and would allow to them make and accept some trade offers they normally wouldn't accept. 

 

Scenario)  Twins sign Desmond.  You can now Trade Plouffe get the best bullpen arm and catching prospect you can round up for him.  It might not be great return but it solves problems.  Now Escobar can be a utility man.  Sano can go back to 3rd with Escobar spelling him for stretches while he DH's or take's games at 1st base.  Dozier now can actually take days off without hurting other positions as Escobar can back him up there as well.  Santana can start the season off in Center Field while Buxton sharpens up in AAA.  This also allows the Twins to give Arcia one last shot in RF because Sano will not be playing OF.  The Domino effect would be greater than just plugging in Desmond if they do it right.

 

Depending on the contract he would sign and how well he plays, Desmond could now become a trade chip in 2017 to bolster other areas of need.  Letting Escobar bridge the gap to the youngster for 2 months in 2017 then move back to his utility role.

 

That being said, I wouldn't sign him for more than 2-3 years as he can be erratic and much younger, cheaper options waiting in the minors. 2/25M or 3/36M I would consider.