Molitor: ..... Hunter MVP consideration!

[Platoon]

When I first saw the headline I assumed he was talking Twins MVP. But apparently Torii has been more instrumental to the teams success than I had noticed? Molitor also made it clear he wants Hunter back next year. From Bernadino yesterday:

 

“I think guys have bought into the energy that he brings in. He’s probably been a big reason we’ve been resilient the way we have, so I don’t know if I can really quantify it. I just know that it’s made a vast difference.”

 

Among American League position players, 172 have accrued 200-plus plate appearances. Hunter ranks 104th among those with a Wins Above Replacement of 1.0, as measured by Fangraphs.com.

 

That places him between fellow outfielders Jacoby Ellsbury of the New York Yankees and Alejandro De Aza of the Boston Red Sox. According to Baseball Reference, which computes WAR differently, Hunter has brought sub-replacement value (minus 0.6 wins).

 

However, due to Hunter’s strong clubhouse influence, Molitor could see the merit in his right fielder drawing Most Valuable Player consideration, at least on a down-ballot basis.

 

“Different voters quantify their MVP vote differently,” Molitor said. “You think back to some of the MVPs the past 30 years that maybe weren’t even close statistically to some other people yet either won or came close. (Kirk) Gibson for the (1988 Los Angeles) Dodgers comes to mind for me.”

[USAFChief]

This should be entertaining.

[bird]

I'm gonna sit this one out. Warblers are migrating.

[DaveW]

If Molitor truly believes this, he really has no business being a major league manager. If he is just saying it to compliment Torii and knows in his heart that he is full of it, then I guess its "ok".

 

And no, Hunter should not be back.

[DaveW]

Also any voter that gives Hunter any top ten votes should have his voting privledges taken away.

 

Sano, Dozier, Hicks, Rosario, Escobar, Plouffe, Duffey and Perkins all deserve votes more than Hunter.

[Mike Sixel]

I'll say it again, if any team really thinks this, Hunter will be signed for something like $30-40MM next year......and we all know that won't happen.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't have a problem with Hunter being back as a PH/4th OF on a 1 year deal.   He's not an everday OF at this point, but his bat still plays well in stretches.  Switching to that role might give him a few more years in the majors.

 

My concern is that he'd be brought back to start. 

[howieramone2]

Bring him back. Guys who hit 22 bombs and drive in 74 runs don't grow on trees, and anyone who says he isn't average defensively doesn't watch the games.

[Vanimal46]

The love for Torii is going way too far.. I'm not taking this article seriously. Even during his hay day of robbing Barry Bonds at the AS game, I don't recall ever seeing his tires pumped this many times....

[DaveW]

 

The love for Torii is going way too far.. I'm not taking this article seriously. Even during his hay day of robbing Barry Bonds at the AS game, I don't recall ever seeing his tires pumped this many times....

It's actually a bit of a shame, instead of talking about Rookies like Sano, Duffey and Rosario who have come out of the gates like this, or the vast improvement by guys like Escobar and Hicks we are stuck with piece after piece about Hunter. A below average corner OF bat who has no value defensively anymore, the occasional piece about his leadership is fine, but for that to be one of the largest storylines for a team witha  season like that? Please.

[Vanimal46]

 

It's actually a bit of a shame, instead of talking about Rookies like Sano, Duffey and Rosario who have come out of the gates like this, or the vast improvement by guys like Escobar and Hicks we are stuck with piece after piece about Hunter. A below average corner OF bat who has no value defensively anymore, the occasional piece about his leadership is fine, but for that to be one of the largest storylines for a team witha  season like that? Please.

 

Just wait until next year when he's on the farewell tour. Bernadino, Lavelle, and Phil Miller are licking their chops thinking of all the puff pieces they can write about him. 

[howieramone2]

 

The love for Torii is going way too far.. I'm not taking this article seriously. Even during his hay day of robbing Barry Bonds at the AS game, I don't recall ever seeing his tires pumped this many times....

You should listen to the Dazzle Man on the radio. Buxton and Hicks rave about Torii's positive influence.

[gil4]

 

anyone who says he isn't average defensively doesn't watch the games.

 

Anyone who says he is has spent too much time watching Willingham, Arcia, Hermann, Parmelee, and various other non-OF attempt to play the position.

[gil4]

 

You should listen to the Dazzle Man on the radio. Buxton and Hicks rave about Torii's positive influence.

 

Coaches outnumber the players already - why not add one more?  Make him the Under Secretary to the Assistant to the Deputy Bench Coach, or something like that.

[Mike Sixel]

You should listen to the Dazzle Man on the radio. Buxton and Hicks rave about Torii's positive influence.

Then some rebuilding team should sign him for tens of millions of dollars, right? If he can singlehandedly make the number 2 prospect in baseball into the player he is right now?

[TheLeviathan]

I like what Hunter has given us this year.  I think his competitive approach from a team leader was badly needed on this team.

 

But Molitor is in way too deep with the hyperbole and we should look to have internal leaders step up and be that guy.  Let Rosario or Sano or someone else take that mantle now.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't have a problem with Hunter being back as a PH/4th OF on a 1 year deal.   He's not an everday OF at this point, but his bat still plays well in stretches.  Switching to that role might give him a few more years in the majors.

 

My concern is that he'd be brought back to start.

 

yeah, Molitor isn't going to sit an MVP on the bench

[Blackjack]

There’s not a one of us on this blog who has spent enough time in the Twins clubhouse to say he isn't their spiritual leader, their motivator, their heart and soul  -- and their MVP. 

 

How many teams and players have you seen with immense talent that flop?? If Tori provides that motivation then maybe he IS their MVP, and someone like Molitor, who is in the clubhouse every day, would know better than a bunch of keyboard baseball fans.

[bird]

 

I like what Hunter has given us this year.  I think his competitive approach from a team leader was badly needed on this team.

 

But Molitor is in way too deep with the hyperbole and we should look to have internal leaders step up and be that guy.  Let Rosario or Sano or someone else take that mantle now.

 

 

Or Mauer. Or Mauer's mom.

[Dr. Evil]

I don't get the aversion to bringing him back as a 4th outfielder and a bench bat and leader. Who are the current right handed pinch hitter options that are better than him? Who would people suggest are the "hot shot sticks" coming off the bench and playing a game or two a week in the field? Are they impressive enough to send Hunter packing? I'm all ears but I'm not seeing it. Sounds to me like people are worried that he would be used as an every day guy and that just seems a little bit odd to me to think that way.

[Willihammer]

Hunter's great. I love how he plays. I'm going to remember a lot from this year - the called strike 3 tirade which was an all-timer for a Twins ejection. The failed steal of home which was probably as dumb as it was awesome (is there a better  baseball play than a steal of home?). All his fake-catches on balls he's too slow to get to anymore, trying to deke the runners. That works about 1 time in 25 but that's enough for him (and I love that attitude). The guy is just a dynamic performer who puts a ton of thought into every little thing. I don't know how much impact Hunter had on the record this year and I doubt its even repeatable but I have enjoyed watching his homecoming more than any single player-season I've watched ever.

[nicksaviking]

I don't want Hunter back next year, and if the young guys haven't already learned from him and digested his sage teachings on "professionalism", "energy", "leadership" or whatever other intangible benefits he has to offer, than what's the point?  Is he going to be suiting up until he's 60 because the guys in the dugout can't retain his instruction from the previous year?

 

Still, despite my frustration with trying to measure intangible values, the 2013 Angels and the 2015 Tigers did suffer disappointing seasons after Hunter departed.  I don't want to, but I'll concede that it's minutely possible that there's something to his mythical clubhouse qualities.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Or Mauer. Or Mauer's mom.

 

I think we all wish it was Mauer, but it just isn't.  And that's ok, Mauer has been a great player for the team, but I do think good teams need different personalities on it and at least one guy with some spitfire who is seen as a leader.

 

He's been more productive as a hitter than I thought he'd be too.

[Platoon]

You should listen to the Dazzle Man on the radio. Buxton and Hicks rave about Torii's positive influence.

I cannot listen to the Dazzle Man at all. It's gotten so bad, when he does the play by play, I mute the sound and just watch the radio!

[DaveW]

Hunter is a TERRIBLE option as a 4th OF, your 4th OF needs to play every OF position, Hunter can barely play RF any more.

 

He is OK as a 5th OF/25th man on the bench option. But when you have guys like Arcia, Vargas and Pinto who are all out of options, you are better off going with one of them since they will give you at least as much with the bat as Hunter likely will.

 

There just isn't any room for Hunter on the roster next year, unless they decide to jettison Vargas,Arcia etc. which would be a huge mistake.

[DaveW]

 

 

I don't want Hunter back next year, and if the young guys haven't already learned from him and digested his sage teachings on "professionalism", "energy", "leadership" or whatever other intangible benefits he has to offer, than what's the point?  Is he going to be suiting up until he's 60 because the guys in the dugout can't retain his instruction from the previous year?

 

Still, despite my frustration with trying to measure intangible values, the 2013 Angels and the 2015 Tigers did suffer disappointing seasons after Hunter departed.  I don't want to, but I'll concede that it's minutely possible that there's something to his mythical clubhouse qualities.

I'd argue that the 2015 Tigers suffered a dissapointing season because they had the worlds worst bullpen, the rotation was garbage that managed to let their ACE in Scherzer goto the NL (Oh and injuries to Verlander and Miggy didn't help at all) Not a lack of leadership IMO.

[DaveW]

 

I like what Hunter has given us this year.  I think his competitive approach from a team leader was badly needed on this team.

 

But Molitor is in way too deep with the hyperbole and we should look to have internal leaders step up and be that guy.  Let Rosario or Sano or someone else take that mantle now.

I nominate Dozier, not only is he a talent on the field, plays every day, but he has some wicked awesome dance moves as well.

[Platoon]

I don't get the aversion to bringing him back as a 4th outfielder and a bench bat and leader. Who are the current right handed pinch hitter options that are better than him? Who would people suggest are the "hot shot sticks" coming off the bench and playing a game or two a week in the field? Are they impressive enough to send Hunter packing? I'm all ears but I'm not seeing it. Sounds to me like people are worried that he would be used as an every day guy and that just seems a little bit odd to me to think that way.

And therein lies the problem! No matter what is said, when he is resigned, and he will be, he will play as a regular. And because he is a regular, someone from the Buxton, Kepler, or Arcia list will not be here. They likely won't sit a young guy on the bench, meaning we will end up with in essence, a Robinson type player instead of a Buxton. IF they were going to use Torii as a 4th OF, it's not a terrible idea. But they won't, and he has made it clear this year that sitting out games is not acceptable. Mentoring does have its limits!

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It's actually a bit of a shame, instead of talking about Rookies like Sano, Duffey and Rosario who have come out of the gates like this, or the vast improvement by guys like Escobar and Hicks we are stuck with piece after piece about Hunter. A below average corner OF bat who has no value defensively anymore, the occasional piece about his leadership is fine, but for that to be one of the largest storylines for a team witha  season like that? Please.

 

I'm going to go with the idea that this was a handshake agreement between Hunter and the Twins to boost his value this offseason... 

[jimbo92107]

There are various ways of thinking about a player's value to the team, among them money, stats, mechanics, or morale.

 

You can focus on monetary value, the bang-for-buck approach. This values inexpensive players that still manage to perform adequately and maybe are versatile, like Shane Robinson, Eduardo Escobar or Eduardo Nunez. Torii Hunter plays only right field, but he does bat up and down the line-up, and did provide some key at-bats this season, along with over 20 homers.

 

A statistical evaluation may not be overly kind to Hunter, but he did knock in over 70 RBI, and his defense, tho below average, rarely decided a game against the team.

 

Mechanically Hunter is a sterling example of how the game can be played by the book. This is one of the things Molitor admires, I'm sure. Hunter's techniques by themselves are like a coach on the field, and reportedly have gotten rave reviews from all the young guns in the outfield.

 

If you want to get emotional, Hunter is your man. He single-handedly created the spirit of this team, organizing the in-game interactions between outfielders, the post game jump-bump, the after game dance parties. If you think these morale boosting moves don't affect young men whose lives revolve around the narrow world of baseball, you'd be vastly mistaken. Hunter is the emotional leader of a group of young men looking to establish their own identity. Without him, this team might have drifted apart emotionally, devolved into cliques, become divisive, gotten into gratuitous bad habits...who knows? Hunter this kept this team together through the long grind of the baseball season, and he is helping to keep them together right here at the end, when the games still count.

 

What other player in the league provides the center of gravity for a team's identity, plus performs as well as Torii Hunter? The team could get by without him next season, but somebody else would have to become the core of the team's spirit. Who would that be? Hunter provides the one thing that Paul Molitor lacks as a manager: charisma.