Molitor: ..... Hunter MVP consideration!

[diehardtwinsfan]

I guess after reading all of this, I have to ask... why is it so difficult to think that a person's style might be able to influence the game in a way that isn't captured by stats?  I like statistics, but they aren't the be all, end all source of authority on baseball.  As was stated in this thread, the last few years teams spent long periods of time just looking beat.  Motivation may not be able to be quantified easily, but it will show up in the box score. 

[Willihammer]

The more I think about it, yeah, bring Hunter back. Give him another 1/10 deal.

[Mike Sixel]

I guess after reading all of this, I have to ask... why is it so difficult to think that a person's style might be able to influence the game in a way that isn't captured by stats?  I like statistics, but they aren't the be all, end all source of authority on baseball.  As was stated in this thread, the last few years teams spent long periods of time just looking beat.  Motivation may not be able to be quantified easily, but it will show up in the box score.

I don't see anyone saying this at all......what people are asking is......how much is it worth? AL MVP amount, or less?

[Major League Ready]

 

I don't see anyone saying this at all......what people are asking is......how much is it worth? AL MVP amount, or less?

I seriously doubt Molitor thinks Hunter is equivalent to Mike Trout.  For god sake the manager does a good thing, shows some leadership himself by acknowledging Hunter and some of the posters here have run out a statement meant to be praise to be literal to an extreme.

 

Having said this, next year needs to be about the transition of Buxton and probably Kepler to the ML team.  If Torri would accept this role, it seems like a pretty darn good fit all around.  Buxton and Kepler can start in AAA where they belong and transition to the ML club when they are ready.

 

I would add that it is not possible to determine how much his leadership added to his WAR value.  However, the team is outperforming what the vast majority of TD posters predicted by about 10 wins.  Is he responsible for 10 wins?  Of course not but Its not too hard for to believe his leadership was worth 2 games.  In which case signing him looks like it was a very smart decision, especially if he has aided in the development of Hicks and/or Rosario.

[Mike Sixel]

No one (I don't think) is arguing if it was a good sign or not, on this thread.

 

As for the statement, the topic we are discussing is what Molitor said. That's the topic of the thread. I fail to see how talking about the topic of the thread is a bad thing.......

[gunnarthor]

 

No one (I don't think) is arguing if it was a good sign or not, on this thread.

As for the statement, the topic we are discussing is what Molitor said. That's the topic of the thread. I fail to see how talking about the topic of the thread is a bad thing.......

I think most of us read Molitor's statement as similar to things said by Dozier and Buxton and Hicks and Ryan and give credit to Hunter for being a huge reason the Twins have done well all season.  Nothing in the article says that Molitor thinks Hunter should be MVP.  

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/09/29/twinsights-paul-molitor-makes-the-mvp-case-for-torii-hunter/

 

'However, due to Hunter’s strong clubhouse influence, Molitor could see the merit in his right fielder drawing Most Valuable Player consideration, at least on a down-ballot basis.

“Different voters quantify their MVP vote differently,” Molitor said. “You think back to some of the MVPs the past 30 years that maybe weren’t even close statistically to some other people yet either won or came close. (Kirk) Gibson for the (1988 Los Angeles) Dodgers comes to mind for me.”

Should the Twins grab the final AL wild-card spot over this final regular-season week, Molitor hopes it could push several of his players into the year-end award mix.'

[laloesch]

 

I have brought it up before, the best case scenario for everyone involved:

Twins win the world series.

Hunter then retires going out on top.

Win, win, win.

Actually screw it, if the Twins win the world series this year, I will be the first to applaud them resigning Hunter for 2016, he can start every game in 16 for all I care at that point, will be too busy celebrating all year long.

 

 

Huh? 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I don't see anyone saying this at all......what people are asking is......how much is it worth? AL MVP amount, or less?

 

I don't think it's worth a big massive contract, but I'd definitely be open to him coming back as a bench bat/occasional OF sub.  He's not going to be the starter anymore, but with Buxton, Hicks, Rosario, and Arcia all needing PT, he gets the 1-2 day a week start to go with PH threat off the bench.  I think that would keep him fresh too which might extend his career. 

 

My concern, as I stated elsewhere is that I don't think it would work out this way and he'd be starting more than he should be... However, if it's the intangibles that they value, this would be a perfect role to maximize his declining skillset and keep those intangibles around.

[Ncgo4]

Leadership cannot be overstated in its importance. Lack of it cannot be overstated as a critical missing element. Hunter has it Mauer doesn't. In evaluating these two remember there are 2 things that enter in a decision to have someone taking a roster position. Production & cost.

 

Hunter has a lot of production value, 20 HR's and team leading (or close to it) RBI's plus great intangibles (leadership). Mauer has minimal production value and virtually no leadership value.

 

As to cost. There are 2 kinds of cost, money and a roster spot. The second is the most important and the 1 most easily overlooked. Hunter has zero financial cost if the Twins don't keep him. Mayer has about $20 million of financial cost if they dump him. For this reason alone the Twins management will not drop Mauer.

 

Now let's look at the roster spot. There are 4 outfielders plus DH positions. There are 2 first base plus DH positions. Keeping Hunter costs us 20% of the roster spouts for the positions he fills. Mayer costs us 50%. From the standpoint of performance cost to the Twins it's a very easy answer. They should dump Mauer and retain Hunter.

 

Looking at it more bluntly, they have already pissed away $20 million in next years salaries on Mauer. Whether they keep him or not. The question is, or should be, how many games to we gain if Max Kepler or someone else takes Mauers place on the roster? The answer is several. We gain a bit defensively and we gain a whole bunch offensively. He much would it cost us to do so? About $500,000, the minimum salary that we would probably pay Mr. Kepler. Remember, we will pay Mauer whether he plays baseball or goes fishing.

 

Then finally ask yourself this. Would the Twins right this minute pay $500,000 to have 3 more victories this year? In Minnesotan, "You betcha"!

[gil4]

 

Is it allowed to demonstrate this much common sense on TD?

I don't think there's a law against it.  It's more of an unwritten rule.

[Danchat]

Today, Torii Hunter said that there's a "very good chance" tomorrow will be his last game. Not sure if that means anything in the long run, though. I've read on MLBTradeRumors that they expect Torii to make a decision in November.

 

Source; Derek Wetmore via Twitter

[gunnarthor]

 

Today, Torii Hunter said that there's a "very good chance" tomorrow will be his last game. Not sure if that means anything in the long run, though. I've read on MLBTradeRumors that they expect Torii to make a decision in November.

 

Source; Derek Wetmore via Twitter

 

If he's not back, he's had a hell of a career - .277/.331/.461 110 OPS+, 2451 hits, 353 HR, 498 doubles, 50 WAR, 9 GG and a 5x all-star.  He's not a HOFer (although there are worse players in it) but he should be in the Hall of Very Good and the Twins HOF.

[USAFChief]

Hunter never, in my observation, cheated himself, his teammates, or us fans. He gave all he had, every day, all season long.

 

One of the easiest guys to to cheer for ever. Thanks Torii.

[Halsey Hall]

What Chief said!

[stringer bell]

I hope he rides into the sunset after his success in 2015. With the Twins eliminated, the best possible scenario is for Hunter to say that he helped take the club to the verge of the promised land, but like Moses, he can't go himself.

 

Hunter has helped this team this year, but IMHO, but that is no guarantee for the same in 2016. If he would want to be a coach, I would think that would be wonderful. If he just wants to go to Dallas and retire, so be it. I appreciate what he's done, but (again) IMHO, it is time for him to move on.

[Platoon]

This quote from Hunter in late Saturday's online Trib. Not only does this seem to quash the thought that he would be a 4th OF/DH, it tells you that his playing time and position were likely negotiated prior to his signing. It also explains the puzzling (to me) OF switch for Arcia.

 

There’s a possibility this could be my last game,” Hunter said in a somber clubhouse after the Twins’ hopes of a postseason invitation were officially dashed Saturday with a 5-1 loss to the Royals. “There’s a really good chance.”

 

That’s because he doesn’t know, in the immediate bleakness of elimination, whether he really wants to play past 40, and whether the Twins will invite him back. The latter has been considered a mere formality once Hunter began smashing home runs — 22 in all, with 81 RBI — but he knows better than anyone how many talented outfielders roughly half his age are on their way.

 

If the Twins suggest he return with quasi-emeritus status, perhaps play half the games? “I wouldn’t come back for that,” said Hunter, who has started 135 games this year. General Manager Terry Ryan has not discussed his plans for the team’s oldest player, but said, “We have a lot of things to talk about.”

 

Hunter is proud of his season, and proud of the influence he has had on the Twins, having transformed a library-quiet clubhouse into a rollicking, supportive bunch in his return after seven years away.