The 25th man for 2015

[DocBauer]

OK....we're all still waiting for that ONE MORE MOVE that we JUST KNOW TR is going to make. And we all think and hope it's going to be for a CF option to help the defense, and give Hicks some AAA time. (OK.....I'm generalizing to be sure....but I think at least somewhat accurately)

 

Remember all the controversy of last ST when comments were made regarding the last man on the roster, how it was "only" the 25th man on the roster so why was everyone so invested and concerned? For those of you who forgot, sorry to bring up such a painful memory. (as if you'd really forgotten) And for any of you who might have been ruffied somewhere along the line in 2014, a quick refresher:

 

Two year injured and pretty much out of baseball, former ML SS Jason Bartlett was initially pegged to be the Twins 25th man, or 13th position player, despite advanced age and injury, despite lack of AB's and actual ML playing time the past two seasons, and with little to no OF/CF experience, he was kept on the roster. Mercifully, and with no intended to Bartlett who was a nice player with a nice career, the experiment ended quickly. Far more quickly than the memory of the fans, who seemed more interested and invested than the FO at the time!

 

So here we are...LESS THAN TWO MONTHS FROM THE ETERNAL SUNSHINE THAT IS SPRING TRAINING...and I thought it a fun topic to bring up.

 

Accounting for a 12 man pitching staff, for at least one more season, I suspect, that leaves 13 position players yet to fill out the roster. (hence my earlier comments about an expected move yet to come for some CF help) We can all figure out most of the complete position roster right now with little debate: backup C though Pinto would appear to be the guy, OF with a possible move coming, entire INF and the DH in Vargas probably set.

 

This leaves the 13th and final position to be discussed and debated.

 

1) Do you keep a 3rd C to allow Pinto more time to PH and DH? Does that mean Fryer or the more positional flexible Herrmann, who can help all over, but probably deserves a chance to play AAA for all of, or most of, a full season.

 

2) Do you keep an extra, 5th OF? Who? I've been waiting 2 years now for Parmelee to be the next Randy Bush. But all he does is defy death and hit LH pitching.

 

3) My personal favorite at this time; Nunez. I play him every single day in ST, A games, B games, SS games, every single INF position and both corner OF positions and I find out once and for all if I have someone with at least a half-assed glove who can hit and help a little.

 

4) Is there something, or someone, that I or the Twins are missing in this scenario that you think makes a difference?

 

Let us all know!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If it comes down to Fryer, Herrmann, Parmelee and Nunez the guys you mentioned, I think Nunez wins hands down. Though I still contend Nunez is an occupational hazard in the outfield.

[TheLeviathan]

If it comes down to Fryer, Herrmann, Parmelee and Nunez the guys you mentioned, I think Nunez wins hands down. Though I still contend Nunez is an occupational hazard in the outfield.

So you're saying he fits in well with our outfielders?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm hoping that with Gardenhire out of the picture, the only reason we have a 3rd catcher is b/c we have 3 Cs that can rake and play other positions. I'd keep an extra reliever or an extra PH otherwise.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I hope the 25th Player on the Roster is a player that is like Nuñez, but better. Free Agent Bonifacio? Eduardo Escobar, becuase the Twins added a better starting CF so we have Hicks, Schafer, Arcia, Hunter, New Guy? 

 

How about Rosario?

 

oh, and did Parmelee become a free agent, or did he accept an assignment to AAA?

[TheLeviathan]

Fear not....for Nick Punto is yet unsigned.

[jorgenswest]

The debate about the 12 man pitching staff would be another thread. Assuming they will need 12 and at times 13, that 4th bench spot probably needs to be one with the roster flexibility of options.

 

Possible 4 man bench mixes

 

Fryer, Escobar, Nunez and Schafer

 

On the good side, they have pinch runners. Fryer must be a good defender or I am not sure how he gets to the majors. Escobar has a solid glove at three infield positions. Schafer has an average glove in the corners and can play a marginal CF.

 

On the other hand, no team would worry about the threat of any of them pinch hitting. All four are out of options. If they need a 13th pitcher, someone is DFA'd or they move Arcia, Vargas or Santana.

 

Is there a better mix?

 

It seems like Nunez doesn't offer anything that stands out from the others. Schafer is the better pinch running option and better defensive replacement for Hunter or Arcia. Escobar is the better glove in the infield. Nunez doesn't play 2B. He is the best right handed bat of the four. If that is his role, is he the best option in the organization to be the bench bat?

 

What about Pinto? If he takes Fryer's spot, he also gives them a more legitimate bench bat. He has options, but they can't option the back up catcher so they still have the same flexibility problem. He also may not be skilled enough to play catcher in any significant role.

 

Pinto brings more to that group as a bench bat. He can be optioned. If he shows he is an adequate catcher, they can DFA Fryer and add a young player in June who is dominating AA or AAA.

 

Nunez or Fryer? Fryer adds a solid glove to the mix. Nunez wouldn't be my first choice among Schafer, Escobar or Pinto as a pinch runner, pinch batter or defensive replacement.

 

I would go with Escobar, Schafer, Pinto and Fryer.

 

The howling about a third catcher can continue.

[Old Twins Cap]

Two things the Yankees did not like about Nunez:  he makes errors on routine plays, and, he will swing early in the count and not take walks.  There is a reason he was dropped from their roster.

[DaveW]

 

 

 

 

There is only one correct answer:

 

 

 

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[Seth Stohs]

I'd say that Nunez is the favorite for 25th man, though I think Pinto is also a candidate as a pinch hitter.

 

Right now, I'd say Suzuki is the favorite as starting catcher with Fryer the favorite as backup catcher. I think Pinto could win the backup catcher job, but if not, I'd have no problem with him as a bench bat. 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think the roster would be too inflexible if Fryer and Pinto are both on it.

 

If the Twins aren't going to play Pinto, I really really really hope they find a trade partner (maybe St. Louis? Finally make that back-up CF trade? Pinto for Bourjos and a reliever?).

[Brandon]

Pinto/ Fryer/ Hermann

Nunez/ Punto

Escobar

Schaefer

 

These seem to be the going competition for the bench roles.  of course Punto is not signed by Minnesota I put him in competition with Nunez for a spot and the back up C should be either Pinto or Fryers.  I put Herman in there as he does have a small chance to break camp with the Twins I suppose.  Nobody is going to beat out Escobar and Schaefer seems a safe bet at this point as well.  I think Pinto and Nunez have the upper hand in the competition Nunez more than Pinto but I suspect our bench will be:

 

Pinto, Nunez, Escobar and Schaefer. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'll be disappointed if Fryer makes the team ahead of Pinto. Catcher is demanding enough that Suzuki and Pinto and go in a 90/70 game split and Pinto get some additional time as an occasional DH. I would ask him to take some grounders in spring and be able to play 1B in a pinch.

[IowaTwin346]

There is only one correct answer:

 

 

 

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I feel like I opened a thread started in like 2010

[Squirrel]

I feel like I opened a thread started in like 2010

Or 2009, 2008, 2007 ...

[James]

There is only one correct answer:

 

 

 

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Word.

 

http://www.stlcardinalbaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Mark-DeRosa.jpg

[jorgenswest]

Two things the Yankees did not like about Nunez:  he makes errors on routine plays, and, he will swing early in the count and not take walks.  There is a reason he was dropped from their roster.

To add...

 

Nunez had options left. They could have sent him to AAA to develop. They not only took him off the 25, they took him off the 40! That move emphasizes their lack of confidence that he would ever be a useful major league player.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Fryer and Parmelee were both to AAA http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/update/24913940/twins-outright-eric-fryer-chris-parmelee-to-triple-a

 

So to start with the bench should be Pinto, Escobar, Nunez and Schaefer.

[maxisagod]

Fryer and Parmelee were both to AAA http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/update/24913940/twins-outright-eric-fryer-chris-parmelee-to-triple-a

 

So to start with the bench should be Pinto, Escobar, Nunez and Schaefer.

 

Power pinch Hitting righty/Back up catcher, Middle Infield Utility, 2nd Utility/ 5th outfielder, Lefty/ pinch runner/ 4th outfielder.  If used properly, that's an efficient bench. I'm guessing the 25th man is a 7th Reliever over a left handed power bat or 3rd catcher, but will see. Too bad Chris Herrmann hasn't developed more power over the years, otherwise he'd fit that role nicely and keep Nunez out of the outfield. 

[Shane Wahl]

Not really sure why Nunez should be considered. He is a terrible defender everywhere and can't hit very well either. He is valuable for speed only.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Remember when the Twins acquired Nuñez ? He replaced Jason Bartlett as the Utility guy and essentially closed the book on Pedro Florimon as well.

 

Baby Steps! Maybe the Twins can upgrade again (if it's Escobar taking the utility role, than I think that's exactly what you would call it).

 

Spring training comes along and maybe they prefer having Shane Robinson on the 25-Man instead of Nuñez - or maybe even Chris Herrmann? Or Parmelee gets that extra life? If the Twins can make a trade in April of 2014 to get Nuñez, there's no reason to think they won't trade him away by April 2015

[Platoon]

While I know you can't have a below Mendoza line player on your roster, I am not sure Nunez was an upgrade over Pedro. Florimon could at least pick it. He had one distinct positive. Nunez doesn't seem to do any one thing well. And from the outside looking in, he doesn't seem to have a real feel for the game. And of anyone thinks Arcia is a liability with a glove, watching Nunez out there for a week would make Oswaldo look like Tori Hunter! Sadly I fear that Torii might end up looking like Oswaldo.

[stringer bell]

Eduardo Nuñez' lifetime OPS+ is 86, Aaron Hicks lifetime OPS+ is 69, yet Hicks should start in center and Nuñez isn't good enough to be the 25th man?  Schafer is at 72 for a lifetime OPS+ and has an elite skill (stealing bases).  Both Nuñez and Schafer have had far better single months than Hicks' best.  It makes no sense to me to hand Hicks a job for the third year in a row. 

 

Yes, I know Hicks is young and has only 500+ plate appearances and is actually a center fielder, but Hicks needs to master AAA.  If whoever (Schafer, Robinson or anyone else) doesn't cut it, there's always Danny Santana with the superior defender (and decent bat) Eduardo Escobar ready and able to step in full time at shortstop.  Escobar at least sustained above average hitting for an entire season (more than 450 plate appearances).

[Paul Pleiss]

I don't understand Eduardo Nunez being offered arbitration because I don't understand how he fits on this team's 25-man roster.

 

I think the debate for who the 25th man on this team is should be about the bullpen. Lots of MLB caliber arms for the Twins, and not a lot of spots for pitchers. I don't think the Twins know who their 5th starter will be, and I think that decision could have big implications for what happens with the bullpen. The fourth guy off the bench, I think, will matter a lot less than the last guy in the pen.

[jorgenswest]

The arbitration to Nunez might work out. He may be needed if Plouffe is not ready following surgery. The Twins anticipate he will be ready, but they don't always get that piece right.

 

If all are healthy, he has a better chance of going unclaimed with the arb1 salary. They can stash him in AAA giving them a veteran option if someone were to get hurt. If he is claimed, someone else pays the arbitration award. Offering arbitration gives them a little bit of insurance and depth. It should not mean that he is slated for the 25.

[old nurse]

Nunez would get about $1 million, that is cheap insurance for a disaster.

[DocBauer]

I hope soon the Twins will be and feel comfortable enough with the rotation to drop back to an 11 man staff. I much prefer a 14 man player roster. But regardless,the function of that "last man" spot is debateable, which was the whole point here. I'm not saying we shouldn't or couldn't look at other options than I listed initially. (Unfortunately, DeRosa is not returning phone calls). I still like Nunez...for now...not because he's great at anything or a projected starter. The reason I like him is he can run a little, he can hit a little with some pop, and is just versatile enough to allow for some lineup shuffling.

[USAFChief]

I think the only debate about the size of the Twins pitching staff is 12 or 13. I doubt you'll see 11.

 

How do you expect a big league team to survive with only 6 relievers??!? :-/

[Willihammer]

While I know you can't have a below Mendoza line player on your roster, I am not sure Nunez was an upgrade over Pedro. Florimon could at least pick it. He had one distinct positive. Nunez doesn't seem to do any one thing well. And from the outside looking in, he doesn't seem to have a real feel for the game. And of anyone thinks Arcia is a liability with a glove, watching Nunez out there for a week would make Oswaldo look like Tori Hunter! Sadly I fear that Torii might end up looking like Oswaldo.

So what you're saying is, Nunez may end up looking like Florimon?