Gardy rumors

[nicksaviking]

It seems I'm late to this conversation, but I have a theory that Gardy wants to replicate the way he came in. That is, TK left after 2002 with the team up to win, and Gardy took the reins and voila he went on a run. Perhaps he would like to leave the team in that condition for the next manager.

 

The situations are very similar, but Kelly was reportedly getting burned out and it had been speculated that he was interested in stepping away a couple of years prior.  Gardenhire has implied several times that he wants to continue to manage.  Kelly was young when he retired on his own terms, that is pretty rare.  Gardenhire is still only 57 and as far as managers go, he could go for another decade if he so chooses.  I don't think he's retiring, particularly when you consider the salary managers get these days.  I'd guess he'd stick around for another decade if he continues to get tendered multi-million dollar deals.

 

If the Twins want to get a new manager, they'll have to fire him or trade him to the Mets.

[Willihammer]

The only thing more depressing than the thought of watching another Gardy led team in 2015, is the thought of watching a Gardy led team through the rest of the 2010s

[Boom Boom]

Smalley was on the radio this morning and went with that old chestnut "Who are you going to get that's better?"

 

If everything that I'm told about MLB managers is true, and they really have a negligible effect on wins and losses, how could it get worse by bringing in a new one?  Does every manager have the right to a stranglehold on their team until they decide to walk away on their own terms?  And how do we know that Gardenhire is necessarily a better manager than anyone else? 

 

Managers are judged by winning or losing games... it's not always fair, but it's the way the system works.  Any other possible criteria for judging a manager's performance is entirely subjective.

[drjim]

If the Twins open 2015 with Gardy, and aren't immediately successful, I hope you're prepared for the conversation from every media outlet from TD to opposing team newspapers to MLBNetwork to be about the Twins managerial situation. That will be the discussion, pretty much every day, until the Twins are either forced to fire him, or defend those kinds of questions, about a lame duck manager, almost every day.

 

That's not going to be pretty. I have difficulty imagining Gardy getting another contract...would you agree? If not, what's the point of going through that next year?

 

Reusse has been tweeting and talking on his radio show recently about Gardy and whether he will stay.

 

His main points were that the Twins are going to get killed in the media and at the gate no matter which way they go, and they still have the opinion that he is a good manager that has been stuck with bad players so they will probably keep him. I generally agree with this analysis both in terms of Gardy's ability and the fact it will make no difference in the media or at the gate.

 

However, your point is huge. Keeping Gardy, while probably meaning very little in the offseason, risks a really ugly season if they don't start out playing well at the beginning of the season. Bringing in a new maanger wipes the slate clean and at least eliminates that angle of ugliness and negativity surrounding the team. People will rightly kill the team if they are bad, but at least they can spin a new beginning.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Disagree with Reusse. Reusse might have other motives for saying that.

 

Parting ways with Gardenhire right now will allow people, including his detractors, a moment to give him his due praise and thank him for his service. Also giving Gardy the plausible cover story that he hasn't had good players to work with these past few seasons. (perhaps Brian Dozier & Co. don't enjoy this line of reasoning so much, but whatever.) This upcoming youth movement, combined with a new manager and coaching staff, probably would not be greeted with apathy among the fan base, and might actually invigorate it (us). If Gardy feels he is truly meant to manage, parting ways would also give him a chance to go to another team he is capable of helping, and giving him a new fan base who might appreciate him and he can prove himself to.

[Mike Sixel]

Reusse wants Gardy gone, so not sure what other motive he might have to say what he is saying, if I understand what little I have heard from 1500.com....

[drjim]

Disagree with Reusse. Reusse might have other motives for saying that.

 

Parting ways with Gardenhire right now will allow people, including his detractors, a moment to give him his due praise and thank him for his service. Also giving Gardy the plausible cover story that he hasn't had good players to work with these past few seasons. (perhaps Brian Dozier & Co. don't enjoy this line of reasoning so much, but whatever.) This upcoming youth movement, combined with a new manager and coaching staff, probably would not be greeted with apathy among the fan base, and might actually invigorate it (us). If Gardy feels he is truly meant to manage, parting ways would also give him a chance to go to another team he is capable of helping, and giving him a new fan base who might appreciate him and he can prove himself to.

 

I should clarify my post so as to not slander Reusse. These are not his arguments, these are the arguments he is hearing from his sources from the Twins front office when he checks in. These are not verbatim, but Reusse's spin on what he is hearing. He is saying his sense is that Gardy will say for the reasons stated, not that it is a sure thing or that he agrees.

 

He also says that a big motivation for Gardy is to leave the team in the same shape for the next manager as Tom Kelly left it for him. My counter-argument to that would be this was the year for that to happen and he failed.

[drjim]

Reusse wants Gardy gone, so not sure what other motive he might have to say what he is saying, if I understand what little I have heard from 1500.com....

 

You are right, I misrepresented Reusse in my post.

[Pius Jefferson]

I'm not sure why the Twins would get heat getting rid of Ron Gardenhire. I can believe the next manager won't sell anymore tickets but I can almost guarantee the only outrage is the team making the wrong hire.

[Badsmerf]

IMO, the Twins should get heat for not getting rid of Gardy, or some real attempt of a change in staff. You can't be this bad for this long and keep the same people that ****ed this thing up. 

 

I hate that all fans and Twins FO keeps spouting is their "top minor league system." Well prospects don't win MLB games. If you keep Gardy, what message are sending the fans? Since I don't have direct tv anymore, I might not even get to watch a single game next year.... and I'm not sure that I'll care. Coming from someone that used to watch 100 games every year, that, is how disgusted I am with management decisions. 

[zenser]

Personally, I think it is time to clean house. I would love it if Anderson, Ullger and Vavra were just fired. I don't think Gardy could function without them on his staff so he might as well go too. Its time for some new blood.

[Kwak]

Remember when "... the top minor league system included Arcia, Hicks, May, and Pinto"?  But somehow Vargas wasn't in the mix. I have become sceptical concerning proclamations about the minor leaguers.

 

But Badsmerf (so did Pohlad intimate the same earlier this season) statement that "prospects don't win games..." speaks loudly.  We have to see the results on the major league fields.

[howeda7]

The Twins are stubborn, but I don't think Dave St. Peter and Jim Pohlad are morons. Either TR or Gardy must go. Preferably both. I predict TR retires and Gardy either accepts another position with the organization or quits.

[beckmt]

According to the Star Tribune tomorrow there is an interview with Terry Ryan saying he is in good health and expects to return if Jim Pohlad will have him.  The Frank Wren firing some of you refer too, I see as having 2 reasons

1.  2 very bad expensive signings the will cost the Brave dearly over  the next 3-5 years (uggla and Upton)

2  Communicaton issues with top Brave leaders(remember Braves president was there GM for the 1900's run and Bobby Cox and John Hart are very experienced leaders).

 

That being said, I think Gardy should go for many of the reasons stated above, but do not think he will.  Best chance is not to renew Anderson and see if Gardy follows him out the door.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

After 2017, when the Twins win the World Series, everyone will be thankful that Gardy is still our manager.

I like your optimism

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, I'd like to see them get rid of everyone on the coaching staff minus Molitor, Bruno, and Cuellar. I'd consider getting Dougie or Jake M. up on the ML staff and would want to pilfer someone from another org... Probably a coach on the St. Louis staff and if it's an option, I'd go hard after Joe Maddon as well.

[drjim]

Personally, I'd like to see them get rid of everyone on the coaching staff minus Molitor, Bruno, and Cuellar. I'd consider getting Dougie or Jake M. up on the ML staff and would want to pilfer someone from another org... Probably a coach on the St. Louis staff and if it's an option, I'd go hard after Joe Maddon as well.

 

So Maddon passed on managing the Red Sox but he would be willing to come up to this mess?

[USAFChief]

Personally, I'd like to see them get rid of everyone on the coaching staff minus Molitor, Bruno, and Cuellar. I'd consider getting Dougie or Jake M. up on the ML staff and would want to pilfer someone from another org... Probably a coach on the St. Louis staff and if it's an option, I'd go hard after Joe Maddon as well.

What will be accomplished by getting rid of half the lieutenants but leaving the commander in place?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

What will be accomplished by getting rid of half the lieutenants but leaving the commander in place?

 

Commander as in Gardy? No, I'd get rid of him. As in Ryan? I've been on record saying that I think Ryan should stick around another year or two, but that the team should move on from him at that point, though I really hope moving on isn't Krivisky or Anthony.

[Brock Beauchamp]

though I really hope moving on isn't Krivisky or Anthony.

*shiver runs down spine*

[Winston Smith]

Gardy is quoted in Trade Rumor as saying this:

 

"Why wouldn't you want to be here? This is as good as it gets."

 

Lost more than 90 games 4 years in a row and this is as good as it gets. If its the players Gardy should be as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it any more.

 

That is the real problem imo they have gotten used to losing and now just accept it and its as good as it gets.

[LaBombo]

The Twins are stubborn, but I don't think Dave St. Peter and Jim Pohlad are morons. Either TR or Gardy must go. Preferably both. I predict TR retires and Gardy either accepts another position with the organization or quits.

The problem with TR stepping down is the tendency for the Twins to fill such positions only with internal options.  And it's difficult for me to picture myself watching Gardenhire lead the team to another 90-loss season next year knowing that Rob Antony is the man in charge of righting the ship.

 

With respect to Gardenhire, it seems likely he'll be back, because, Twins.

 

As AG noted. only twice in the nearly 150 year history of MLB has a manager returned after four consecutive 90 loss seasons.  One was Connie Mack, who was born during the Civil War and was co-owner of his team.  The Athletics went on to lose an average of 95 game the next three seasons.

 

The other time it happened was Kelly.  He lost 93 before going out with a nice 85 win season.  But TK had banked a decade of good will with not just two World Series wins, but the only two championships of the state's major sports.  Gardenhire is associated only with some good seasons, some bad seasons , and playoff disasters.

 

So if the Twins bring Gardenhire back, it seems like a pretty clear admission that the organization is the most change-resistant and risk-averse franchises in baseball.  Historically so, in fact.

[Kwak]

Gardy is quoted in Trade Rumor as saying this:

 

"Why wouldn't you want to be here? This is as good as it gets."

 

Lost more than 90 games 4 years in a row and this is as good as it gets. If its the players Gardy should be as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it any more.

 

That is the real problem imo they have gotten used to losing and now just accept it and its as good as it gets.

Speaks volumes doesn't it?  Anybody who was committed to winning the World Series would run, not walk away.  Even during the "fat years" ownership would make a cheap mid-season addition.  Gardenhire would be aware of that and would know that if any future team was "making a charge" after the ASG that only token help is coming.  He has a really cushy job and has displayed no willingness to "move on and cash-in on previous success".  Complacent management doesn't not lead to success. 

[USAFChief]

Commander as in Gardy? No, I'd get rid of him. As in Ryan? I've been on record saying that I think Ryan should stick around another year or two, but that the team should move on from him at that point, though I really hope moving on isn't Krivisky or Anthony.

Ah, gotcha. I misunderstood your earlier post to mean shuffle the coaching staff again but leave Gardy. My bad.

[drjim]

Speaks volumes doesn't it?  Anybody who was committed to winning the World Series would run, not walk away.  Even during the "fat years" ownership would make a cheap mid-season addition.  Gardenhire would be aware of that and would know that if any future team was "making a charge" after the ASG that only token help is coming.  He has a really cushy job and has displayed no willingness to "move on and cash-in on previous success".  Complacent management doesn't not lead to success. 

 

Or you could realize there are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and if he was to voluntarily leave it there is no guarantee that he would ever get one again. I suspect he would, but that is far from a sure thing.

[LaBombo]

Or you could realize there are only 30 of these jobs in the world, and if he was to voluntarily leave it there is no guarantee that he would ever get one again. I suspect he would, but that is far from a sure thing.

 

The idea that his record and reputation mean that being hired elsewhere is far from a certainty is another pretty good indication that the historically, literally unprecedented act of bringing him back is devoid of special circumstances that would warrant such a non-move.

[jorgenswest]

The question is simple.

 

Is Gardenhire the best available person for this position?

 

The past doesn't matter. It is not a matter of deserving or not. The front office is responsible to the fans, players and organization to employ the best available manager and coaching staff.

 

Is Gardenhire the best possible fit for the Twins? It seems unlikely.

[ashbury]

The question is simple.

 

Is Gardenhire the best available person for this position?

 

The past doesn't matter. It is not a matter of deserving or not. The front office is responsible to the fans, players and organization to employ the best available manager and coaching staff.

 

Is Gardenhire the best possible fit for the Twins? It seems unlikely.

I don't know if it's quite that simple.  He has a contract for next year, and any firing is also disruptive.  So the better question is if there is someone who is so much a better fit that it outweighs the various costs of cutting the ties.

[USAFChief]

I don't know if it's quite that simple.  He has a contract for next year, and any firing is also disruptive.  So the better question is if there is someone who is so much a better fit that it outweighs the various costs of cutting the ties.

At some point, he will no longer be the Twins manager, whether that point is next week or next decade. The disruption will occur, so IMO it's not a big factor.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't know if it's quite that simple.  He has a contract for next year, and any firing is also disruptive.  So the better question is if there is someone who is so much a better fit that it outweighs the various costs of cutting the ties.

Ron Washington's resignation came with much less notice, and the Rangers have a 12-6 record since. If Molitor is Gardy's so called heir-apparent, then there will be no disruption at all, as Molly has been in the Twins dugout next to him all year. Please don't give Twins management any more ideas, ashburyjohn.