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The Twins are on pace for 93 wins and have been one of the best hitting teams in baseball for the past two months. On the season, they have the 2nd highest OPS in the American League. Just stating facts here, but I’m curious what your expectations for a manager are if you are convinced that Rocco is costing the team a chance to win in every game. Do I think his decisions have been perfect? Of course not. Every person who makes decisions is going to get it flat-out wrong sometimes, and I’m not going to claim I understand sticking with Manny Margot as a platoon sub, but overall, the team has outperformed expectations, and that’s despite the terrible first few weeks when nobody was hitting AND not having access to arguably our best hitter for most of the season.

Avogadro’s number.

He has always made some questionable calls but every manager does.  He has also won some games with good decisions so he is net neutral.

Fire Gardy.  Oh, wait.  Never mind.  Why does Frank Quilici still have a job?  Billy Ball.

I have no issues with Baldelli. Don’t understand the perpetual hindsight criticism of moves he makes. I particularly don’t get the criticism when a move is made and the player doesn’t get the job done.

A good Team loses 45% of their games……essentially, regardless of the Manager …….that’s baseball.

I did say in the voting he’s cost the Team 2 wins - just a general thought based on what he’s said after games. I have no specific thoughts on this/these “bad moves”. I’m sure he’s done many things that have worked out and WON games but that’s what he supposed to do……..why give him credit when he does things that work - right?

Geez, I'm not a Rocco fan.  I mean I actually like the guy, just I'm not a fan of his managerial style.  Never have been, but his managerial style is a direct reflection of the GM's that put him in that spot.  However, beyond all of that.  The Twins are like 12 games over .500 with no help from the off season, lost Cy young candidate, and other pieces and basically just did absolutely nothing this off season.  Yet they are still 12 games over .500.  So Rocco has done nothing to harm this squad whatsoever.  I have nothing to complain about this season.  I feel that the total reliance on analytics will eventually bite them come playoff time, but it gets them to the playoffs often enough, and that's with many of their best players having been down at some point in time this season.  So Rocco is doing his job, I voted as zero, he has been responsible for 0 extra losses this season.  Probably even could go the other way.  But I have no proof of that.  So leave Rocco alone.  The Twins are doing well, especially for what they set them up for this past off season.

If he’s cost us 5 losses, how many wins do you credit him with, then? These kinds of questions do nothing, say nothing. Losing is a team effort. So is winning. Maybe a move the manager made cost them a win. Or maybe the player who struck out looking did, or made an error did. So many here credit him with losses but then don’t credit him with wins. Many here scream at moves and decisions he makes then say the team win in spite of him. While I don’t think he’s the best manager out there, I don’t think he’s responsible for losses alone. I don’t think he’s responsible for wins alone, either. And he can only work with the roster he’s given and I think the players are mostly responsible for wins and losses. While the season isn’t over yet, I’m happy where the team is at because I didn’t expect the team to do well. Season isn’t over yet, so who knows. But my pre-season doubts were squarely on the owner, and not the manager.

21 hours ago, Eric Blonigen said:

The Twins are on pace for 93 wins and have been one of the best hitting teams in baseball for the past two months. On the season, they have the 2nd highest OPS in the American League. Just stating facts here, but I’m curious what your expectations for a manager are if you are convinced that Rocco is costing the team a chance to win in every game. Do I think his decisions have been perfect? Of course not. Every person who makes decisions is going to get it flat-out wrong sometimes, and I’m not going to claim I understand sticking with Manny Margot as a platoon sub, but overall, the team has outperformed expectations, and that’s despite the terrible first few weeks when nobody was hitting AND not having access to arguably our best hitter for most of the season.

Obviously we don't know the outcome if he doesn't make certain decisions, however pinch hitting before the 7th is bad decision.    I understand match ups but younger guys (LHH) don't get better if you don't let them face LHP.  Also early on (and throughout his coaching career) I feel he had to fast of a hook when pitchers are doing well.  I think last year alone Gray was taken out after 80 pitches and bullpen lost it.   

7 hours ago, Squirrel said:

If he’s cost us 5 losses, how many wins do you credit him with, then? These kinds of questions do nothing, say nothing. Losing is a team effort. So is winning. Maybe a move the manager made cost them a win. Or maybe the player who struck out looking did, or made an error did. So many here credit him with losses but then don’t credit him with wins. Many here scream at moves and decisions he makes then say the team win in spite of him. While I don’t think he’s the best manager out there, I don’t think he’s responsible for losses alone. I don’t think he’s responsible for wins alone, either. And he can only work with the roster he’s given and I think the players are mostly responsible for wins and losses. While the season isn’t over yet, I’m happy where the team is at because I didn’t expect the team to do well. Season isn’t over yet, so who knows. But my pre-season doubts were squarely on the owner, and not the manager.

Yesterday is a great case in point.. late in a very close game (Game 2) Rocco pulled Farmer and pinch hit Castro. It didn't succeed as Castro was out but it was the correct move by Rocco. 

Did it affect the outcome? Maybe. Maybe Castro made a play Farmer wouldn't have. They won in any event.

All Rocco can do is put the best players in the position to succeed most often, pitching, hitting, defense. 

The majority of the end result is on the players.

7 hours ago, Paul Walerius said:

Obviously we don't know the outcome if he doesn't make certain decisions, however pinch hitting before the 7th is bad decision.    I understand match ups but younger guys (LHH) don't get better if you don't let them face LHP.  Also early on (and throughout his coaching career) I feel he had to fast of a hook when pitchers are doing well.  I think last year alone Gray was taken out after 80 pitches and bullpen lost it.   

Just a little data...

4/8 Ober 5IP 68 pitches left with a lead

4/14 Ober 6IP 84 pitches left with a lead

5/7 Tell me if you hear this one before Ober 5IP 84 pitches (issue 1)

        Alcala went out for a second inning (in 9th) in tie game.  No longer can have a save Duran should have been out there 

     Julien Replaced by Farmer in 5th and Larnach Replaced by Margot in 5th

5/17 SWR pulled after 5 2/3 IP 79 pitches. Okert gave up HR in 6th (only run SWR "gave up")

6-11 Varland (only good start) 5IP 0 ER 63 pitches.

All losses.

This all depends on how you want to define things, but essentially it is unanswerable.  For the record, I declared that I thought he was a net positive.  I don't really know that, but it's what my overall eye test tells me.  If you blame Rocco for decision x that leads to a poor result, you need to also give him credit for decision y that led to a positive result.  Also, are his "poor" decisions actually poor, or are they what you wouldn't do and do some of the "poor" decisions actually work out OK.  Conversely, do some of his "good" decisions lead to bad results.  There are WAY too many decisions, both large and small, that result in WAY too much butterfly effect for us to really know the answer with any sense of certainty.  Getting blame for a loss isn't as simple as pinch hitting too early or taking a pitcher out too early or leaving one in too long.  There are far too many moving parts and human factors on the players' part to make it into a simple counting exercise. 

You fanboys have got to let this go. Rocco is no longer the guy pulling starters from the game with a shutout because they've thrown 60 pitches. Twins starters were among the leaders last year in innings pitched and pitches thrown. I've heard people complain because they're in second place. They've Won more games than last year; look at the record! Is it Rocco's fault that Lewis gets injured or that Pablo is pitching like a 5th starter? I don't see any major issues to complain about. If you think it's his fault when a pinch hitter makes an out you've got to give him credit when a pinch hitter gets a hit. You're sounding like a typical Yankees fan who's always bitching because they aren't on pace to win 120 games. Grow up and enjoy the game!

I voted the top choice that Rocco is an asset. I think he is, this clubhouse is tight. Carlos and company have much to do with that as well. There are decisions that drive me crazy, but sometimes they then win.

I'm not the type to question every decision in hindsight, but many are. That is what is noticable about this vote so far. A surprising few have voted Rocco down. That only means, those that have a problem with Rocco may be a minority, but surely they are audible, lol. And metronomic, he he. 

What it comes down to for me is the record and ultimately the responsibility for that is Falvey's. I'm enjoying this decade of Twins baseball much more than the last so they have my approval. I want them to keep building from here.

Longtime readers may have suspected my poll was "a little" tongue-in-cheek.  Especially with the satirical/clickbait tone in the short introductory paragraph. I very much appreciate those who indicated they were in on the joke and still gave reasoned posts.

But joking aside, I was genuinely curious to see whether people would attach a number of losses to the manager, and what kind of reasoning they might offer.  It's one thing to say "pinch hitting Margot for Lefty McHelplessagainstlefties in the 4th inning is a bad move", but can you translate that into a difference in the standings?  Some people do, and the points of view are interesting.

For the record, I'm in the "about neutral" camp.

I'm surprised to see the "net positive" option getting the most votes. Interesting. I voted 0 wins.

I've been on the record here for years that I don't think managers make much of a difference. Most of them are doing things the same way now, and most of those decisions are based heavily on strategies put in place with/by the baseball ops department. Talent wins.

I hate the pinch hitting before the 7th, but part of that is because the FO brings in guys for those roles who have no business facing righties later in the game. So is it on Rocco that he does that? For sure. But it's also very clearly part of their overall strategy, and it wouldn't get so many complaints from me if the righty coming in in the 5th had an OPS over .700 against righties instead of .459 (Margot's current number). 

I dislike the shorter starts from starters, but that's MLB as a whole. It makes sense that guys who aren't very good don't get to see the lineup a third time while your better starters get extra rope. Pitch counts keep getting lower and lower, but the Twins rotation has been unbelievably healthy the last 2 years (I knocked on wood, don't worry) which could be a result of the more limited workloads (I don't know, but it seems like a logical possibility). 

But, generally speaking, many of the overall complaints about Rocco are just complaints about MLB strategy in this day and age. And I agree with those who say the game is less entertaining with the change in strategies, but I want my favorite team to win so I'd rather them follow the less entertaining strategies that have proven to be the better way to win games despite what "old school" fans on the internet say.

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

 I want my favorite team to win so I'd rather them follow the less entertaining strategies that have proven to be the better way to win games despite what "old school" fans on the internet say.

I guess that's the bottom line for me as well.  I'm not watching, well mostly listening to, baseball games to find things to complain about.  If the team is doing well and is fun to watch, that's what makes me a fan.  Don't get me started about the mid/late 1990's though!

My vote for the net positive for Rocco was based on the fact that I think he has the ship pointed in the right direction and players seem to like playing for him.  Those are two things that are likely to lead to more victories.  I think grading him up or down for one move or another is pretty short sighted unless it is for the most negatively egregious or most positively amazing moves. 

18 hours ago, Paul Walerius said:

Just a little data...

4/8 Ober 5IP 68 pitches left with a lead

4/14 Ober 6IP 84 pitches left with a lead

5/7 Tell me if you hear this one before Ober 5IP 84 pitches (issue 1)

        Alcala went out for a second inning (in 9th) in tie game.  No longer can have a save Duran should have been out there 

     Julien Replaced by Farmer in 5th and Larnach Replaced by Margot in 5th

5/17 SWR pulled after 5 2/3 IP 79 pitches. Okert gave up HR in 6th (only run SWR "gave up")

6-11 Varland (only good start) 5IP 0 ER 63 pitches.

All losses.

You also have no clue had they been left in if they would have got the win.  We will never know.  We attack a move when it does not work, but rarely say that was a great move there when it does work.  If we leave in any of those guys longer and they give up the lead Rocco gets attacked for leaving a guy in too long. 

As far as I know Rocco has not struck out, hit into a double play or made a crucial fielding error this year.

This years team is way better than I expected them to be so I have a hard time hating on Rocco.

I do wish he would get more fired up like Gardy once in a while. But if slow and steady wins the race, not over or under reacting and remaining calm at the helm is what is best over 162 game season plus spring training then he seems to have that covered. 

Since the Twins keep their injuries pretty quiet we do not know if Ober, Kepler, Jeffers etc is 100% or not and how that plays into Rocco's decisions. I do hate the 4th inning pinch hitter.......He gets a plus rating from me.

56 minutes ago, ziggy said:

As far as I know Rocco has not struck out, hit into a double play or made a crucial fielding error this year.

This years team is way better than I expected them to be so I have a hard time hating on Rocco.

I do wish he would get more fired up like Gardy once in a while. But if slow and steady wins the race, not over or under reacting and remaining calm at the helm is what is best over 162 game season plus spring training then he seems to have that covered. 

Since the Twins keep their injuries pretty quiet we do not know if Ober, Kepler, Jeffers etc is 100% or not and how that plays into Rocco's decisions. I do hate the 4th inning pinch hitter.......He gets a plus rating from me.

The question isn't whether the twins are playing well right now - is whether another manager would make better moves to help us be a better team. The players will play how they will and that can be influenced, albeit in minor ways. Some managers have a feel for the game. They don't need to look at stat sheets in the 3rd inning and then pull their best hitting option because a lefty comes in, knowing full well he would've gotten more ab's later in the game. Terry Francona had this. Tony Larussa. Dusty Baker. Rocco does not. He's a product of the system and he does not add value to the team during the game. Will we win 93 games this year - more than likely more. Does that excuse Rocco and the ridiculous moves he makes in pinch hitting? No. That being said. He learned and made adjustments in his starting pitcher usage over the last two years (to the betterment of his bullpen, especially late in the season) and they have seemingly have move from the high strikeout agenda they had, so maybe he will change some of his other approaches that don't work or make sense too? 

57 minutes ago, BsuNemo said:

The question isn't whether the twins are playing well right now - is whether another manager would make better moves to help us be a better team. The players will play how they will and that can be influenced, albeit in minor ways. Some managers have a feel for the game. They don't need to look at stat sheets in the 3rd inning and then pull their best hitting option because a lefty comes in, knowing full well he would've gotten more ab's later in the game. Terry Francona had this. Tony Larussa. Dusty Baker. Rocco does not. He's a product of the system and he does not add value to the team during the game. Will we win 93 games this year - more than likely more. Does that excuse Rocco and the ridiculous moves he makes in pinch hitting? No. That being said. He learned and made adjustments in his starting pitcher usage over the last two years (to the betterment of his bullpen, especially late in the season) and they have seemingly have move from the high strikeout agenda they had, so maybe he will change some of his other approaches that don't work or make sense too? 

1. Rocco hasn't changed his approach to pitching, he has better players. He always let good pitchers stay in. Go look at where Berrios used to finish in innings pitched with Rocco around.

2. Terry Francona absolutely looked at stat sheets and made decisions based off them. Go listen to some interviews with him. There's a bunch out there. Even some nice long ones with him and Joe Maddon talking about the use of analytics. Is Cleveland winning more this year because Francona had no more feel for the game left last year, but first time manager Vogt is just a mad genius? 

4 hours ago, Trov said:

You also have no clue had they been left in if they would have got the win.  We will never know.  We attack a move when it does not work, but rarely say that was a great move there when it does work.  If we leave in any of those guys longer and they give up the lead Rocco gets attacked for leaving a guy in too long. 

I don't think that would happen at all especially in those situations.   If they have under 80 pitches and you attack him for leaving players in there (the way they were pitching) then you probably need to learn the game.   I did make the same point in my original response that we don't know for sure how it would go.  My only point is if Twins have/had 3 pen guys they can trust you can't take starter out on such few pitches after 5.  I understand seeing a batter for the 3rd time sometimes goes south but they are professionals treat them like it.  

I am not calling for Rocco to be fired, just saying IMO these were L's because of his moves.  

I believe it's impossible to determine the number of games a manager is responsible for winning or losing based on any objective data.   Therefore it's a subjective judgement  based on unproveable observations.   

For many years posters on Twins Daily have pointed out numerous times  (correctly in my opinion) Rocco has made poor decisions in the following areas of management:

 . line up construction

.  pinch hitting (especially righty / lefty substitutions)

. situational offense calls (bunting, stealing, hit and runs, etc.)

. starting pitchers being left in too long or pulled too quick

. relief pitching utilization

In my opinion, baseball (pitching and hitting) is the most precise and difficult thing to consistantly do well  for extended periods of time in all of human sporting activities.

Wins and losses are not a great judge of a manager because the performance of individual players win and lose games.   A great manager is someone who blends the use of statisically analysis with how players are currently performing and a gut feel of the game to make the best decisions.   All players being fallible humans have strenghts and weakness, and hot / cold streaks.   A great manager puts players in situations where they are more likely to succeed then to fail.

After many years of observation I don't Rocco has what it takes to get the most out of his players or put them in the best positons to succeed.  In other words,  I rate him as a below average manager that I iwould replace if I  owned the team and was trying to win as much as possible given the resources (players) available.

14 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

1. Rocco hasn't changed his approach to pitching, he has better players. He always let good pitchers stay in. Go look at where Berrios used to finish in innings pitched with Rocco around.

2. Terry Francona absolutely looked at stat sheets and made decisions based off them. Go listen to some interviews with him. There's a bunch out there. Even some nice long ones with him and Joe Maddon talking about the use of analytics. Is Cleveland winning more this year because Francona had no more feel for the game left last year, but first time manager Vogt is just a mad genius? 

Rocco's best pitcher last year wasn't allowed to pitch into the 6th. He left because of that and without him our pitching staff has fallen farther than any other staff from last year to this year. 

Francona didn't pinch hit his best players. Didn't have his best pitcher not willing to resign with he team because of his analytics. You prove my point. Francona used both and did it very well. The team you are seeing this year is the fruit of his labor just as baldelli benefitted from the team and players molitor built his first year. 

We won't agree, and that's fine but this team would be better than they are with a different approach by a different manager. Zero doubt in my mind. 

1 hour ago, BsuNemo said:

Rocco's best pitcher last year wasn't allowed to pitch into the 6th. He left because of that and without him our pitching staff has fallen farther than any other staff from last year to this year. 

This is patently false. Sony Gray pitched the most innings under Rocco in 2023 than he had in any other season since 2015. The 3rd most innings of any season in his career. The only seasons with more innings pitched were in his early prime, a very young and strong Sonny. If anything Gray, if he is thinking clearly, has 75 million reasons to be thankful to the Twins and Rocco, lol. Gray married his highschool sweetheart from Smyrna Tennessee a 4.5 hour drive from Cincinnati. Now you have some logical reasons for Sonny's departure. That and a banker's budget up here in Minnesota.

I count 20 of 32 starts where Sonny pitched into the 6th.