2 hours ago, BsuNemo said:

Rocco's best pitcher last year wasn't allowed to pitch into the 6th. He left because of that and without him our pitching staff has fallen farther than any other staff from last year to this year. 

Francona didn't pinch hit his best players. Didn't have his best pitcher not willing to resign with he team because of his analytics. You prove my point. Francona used both and did it very well. The team you are seeing this year is the fruit of his labor just as baldelli benefitted from the team and players molitor built his first year. 

We won't agree, and that's fine but this team would be better than they are with a different approach by a different manager. Zero doubt in my mind. 

@wabene covered the Sonny stuff perfectly. Sonny left because the Twins wouldn't pay him 75 million over 3 years.

Francona's pitchers also left for more money. Vogt and the Guardians changed their approach at the plate and it's lead to more power and more runs. That has nothing to do with Francona. They're concentrating on pulling the ball in the air more. Like the Twins. And they're winning more because of it.

I'm not a huge Rocco guy. I don't care if he's fired today. But if you're going to put him down at least do some research and make sure you're not mad at him for things you're completely wrong about.

1 hour ago, wabene said:

This is patently false. Sony Gray pitched the most innings under Rocco in 2023 than he had in any other season since 2015. The 3rd most innings of any season in his career. The only seasons with more innings pitched were in his early prime, a very young and strong Sonny. If anything Gray, if he is thinking clearly, has 75 million reasons to be thankful to the Twins and Rocco, lol. Gray married his highschool sweetheart from Smyrna Tennessee a 4.5 hour drive from Cincinnati. Now you have some logical reasons for Sonny's departure. That and a banker's budget up here in Minnesota.

I count 20 of 32 starts where Sonny pitched into the 6th.

Double digit games of less than 90 pitches and 1 or fewer runs allowed. At least 4 incidents that went public that gray was upset with how he was used. You can believe the pc answers Sony gave if you'd like but we lost out on a chance to keep the best starter we'e had since Johan because of your manager and Pablo is struggling because of it too. 

37 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

@wabene covered the Sonny stuff perfectly. Sonny left because the Twins wouldn't pay him 75 million over 3 years.

Francona's pitchers also left for more money. Vogt and the Guardians changed their approach at the plate and it's lead to more power and more runs. That has nothing to do with Francona. They're concentrating on pulling the ball in the air more. Like the Twins. And they're winning more because of it.

I'm not a huge Rocco guy. I don't care if he's fired today. But if you're going to put him down at least do some research and make sure you're not mad at him for things you're completely wrong about.

We could've offered him 100 mil - he wasn't staying. You can make up whatever reasons you want. 

31 minutes ago, BsuNemo said:

We could've offered him 100 mil - he wasn't staying. You can make up whatever reasons you want. 

Bummer the Cardinals are going to have to trade him since he's going to be so pissed at them for mismanaging him, too. I mean, unless you think .05 innings per start is a massive jump for him? He averaged 5.75 innings per start for the Twins last year and is just over 5.8 innings for the Cards. It's almost like you're the one making up whatever reason you want. But to each their own.

4 hours ago, BsuNemo said:

We could've offered him 100 mil - he wasn't staying. You can make up whatever reasons you want. 

Everything I have put forward is fact, that is all. This post of yours is not based on fact. It is just conjecture. But again it really doesn't matter. I think most in real time knew they would not spend what was necessary to keep Sonny.

Rocco gets a plus ONE for todays lineup and win. 

On 7/13/2024 at 11:33 AM, BsuNemo said:

On 7/13/2024 at 9:31 AM, wabene said:

This is patently false. Sony Gray pitched the most innings under Rocco in 2023 than he had in any other season since 2015. The 3rd most innings of any season in his career. The only seasons with more innings pitched were in his early prime, a very young and strong Sonny. If anything Gray, if he is thinking clearly, has 75 million reasons to be thankful to the Twins and Rocco, lol. Gray married his highschool sweetheart from Smyrna Tennessee a 4.5 hour drive from Cincinnati. Now you have some logical reasons for Sonny's departure. That and a banker's budget up here in Minnesota.

I count 20 of 32 starts where Sonny pitched into the 6th.

Double digit games of less than 90 pitches and 1 or fewer runs allowed. At least 4 incidents that went public that gray was upset with how he was used. You can believe the pc answers Sony gave if you'd like but we lost out on a chance to keep the best starter we'e had since Johan because of your manager and Pablo is struggling because of it too. 

We all have bosses.  Sonny used to whine about wanting to pitch longer and then generally had a (predictable) drop off the third time through the lineup.  Players are not always reliable sources.  

1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

We all have bosses.  Sonny used to whine about wanting to pitch longer and then generally had a (predictable) drop off the third time through the lineup.  Players are not always reliable sources.  

Yes Sonny thinking he was something he maybe hadn't been contributed to the narrative. Of course you want a player to have that unwavering confidence.

I say Rocco is below average, but I’m not sure how much it matters anymore.

There are so many other factors that are influencing the results of games today— primarily, quality of the competition, or lack of quality, is just striking to me.

In today’s MLB, there are several teams every year that do not even make an effort to be competitive. Depending on which division a team plays in, that could be 15-20% of your schedule, playing against teams that are not fielding a major league product. In the past, you might see a super team or two with 100-plus wins, and a bad team with 100 losses. Ten years ago, no team broke 100, winning or losing. The past few seasons, the story is different. Several teams every year win 100-plus, and several others lose 100. Sometimes well past 100. The quality of players on these teams is reflected in the win-loss records. Uncompetitive. Even in an era when 12 teams now make the postseason, we will still see multiple teams not really trying and without a play to even try next season. 

Why is this so? I’m not sure. I would like to see an analysis. My guess is that it has something to do with the analytics movement (the philosophy, true or not, of “strikeouts don’t matter”) and those types of players that movement brought in. Maybe we are still in the midst of it. I don’t know. I don’t have this completely fleshed out but I would say it’s something like that.

In other words? There are too many bad players in the league to worry about Rocco’s bad substitutions!

On 7/10/2024 at 11:43 AM, DJL44 said:

If you vote, show your work.

There was a poster a couple years ago who started posting, and counting Rocco’s wins and losses. Unfortunately the poster was already prejudiced against Rocco, which didn’t help their cause. When people started complaining, the poster doubled down, got nasty, and was banned not too long after.

Just for funnsies I started keeping my own count at that time for a couple months. I made a notes file on my phone. I just pulled it back up, and looks like I had Rocco about negative -4 over that period. Mostly substitutions I did not agree with. Pagan was struggling that year. One game, Rocco pinch hit Miranda which I did not agree with, but Miranda got the game winning hit. So +1 for Rocco. Another game, was the Toronto game where I thought Rocco made all the best possible moves but the Twins were cheated on that bad call against Sanchez blocking the plate. I don’t remember who the outfielder was who made the throw (Billy Hamilton maybe?). There was a game Hamilton was brought in to pinch run and did not attempt to steal, and Hamilton did not score. I mean, it’s Billy Hamilton, no need for signs from the third base coach, just yell from the dugout. Minus -1 for Rocco. There was another game against Houston when Rocco was confused about the number of mound visits. 

So I know you are just joking when you say “show your work” but some people have actually done the work.  🙂

My criticism of Rocco is twofold: his over reliance on analytics, especially starting pitchers. And the lack of a running game.  Show some confidence in the starters once in awhile to get through more than five innings, though it is a little better than previous years. I think that played a part in Sonny Gray’s decision to leave, his frustration with early hooks. As for the running game, steal a base occasionally, try hit and run, etc. It seems like they are always waiting for the perfect count before stealing. Stop being so predictable on the bases. 

Wow, I guess I'm a little late to the conversation, but this whole thought process is flawed. The real truth is that Rocco should be fired immediately and "I SHOULD BE HIRED AS THE NEW MANAGER".  C'mon people, this is a "no-brainer".   All joking aside, I'm not a big fan of Rocco but I honestly believe that the manager does make a difference.  If the team continues to win under Rocco,  then it could be possible that I'm wrong.  Hahahahahah.  Nope, that couldn't be!

Players who are not successful lose the games.  Not the managers.

He's cost the Twins at least 8 games. And as much as I'd like to show you my work. I can't. The dog ate it while I was fixing the flat tire on my car.

On 7/11/2024 at 10:25 PM, Morland said:

You fanboys have got to let this go. Rocco is no longer the guy pulling starters from the game with a shutout because they've thrown 60 pitches. Twins starters were among the leaders last year in innings pitched and pitches thrown. I've heard people complain because they're in second place. They've Won more games than last year; look at the record! Is it Rocco's fault that Lewis gets injured or that Pablo is pitching like a 5th starter? I don't see any major issues to complain about. If you think it's his fault when a pinch hitter makes an out you've got to give him credit when a pinch hitter gets a hit. You're sounding like a typical Yankees fan who's always bitching because they aren't on pace to win 120 games. Grow up and enjoy the game!

Why hate the Yankees all the time? "Grow up and enjoy the game" 😁

This is a trick question right? Kyle Farmer has played in 63 games, so the answer must be 63.

On 7/10/2024 at 7:54 PM, Craig Arko said:

Avogadro’s number.

I'd put it at a Gross amount

It doesn't matter what Rocco does, because he's never going to come back from that -40-something Manager WAR that some dude gave him a couple years ago.