Pete Maki Not Returning As Twins' Pitching Coach

[LastOnePicked]

2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I wonder how much it would cost to get Carl Willis away from Cleveland. He probably wouldn't leave, would he?

No experienced coach would ever leave a perennial winner for a perennial loser.

[LastOnePicked]

4 hours ago, Dave Borton said:

Being an armchair coach, it is very difficult to assess Pete Maki's ability to impact this club. 

I agree. I wonder who in the organization is actually making these decisions?

This team has had bottom five league-worst defense for how many seasons now? That maybe had more to do with the pitchers' struggles than Pete Maki.

[Cory Engelhardt]

2 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

No experienced coach would ever leave a perennial winner for a perennial loser.

I feel like saying something like could be proven incorrect with an extremely quick google search. But for this specific instance maybe you are right in terms of Willis leaving.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

It took them almost a year to announce Rocco got an extension, then it still came out by accident.

Correct. It’s crazy. All we know about Shelton is he signed a multi year contract. Is that 2 years? 7 years?

I guess the only way we know is if he’s coaching in spring training that year. If he’s not, the Pohlads will say “Oh, we forgot to tell you? We decided to build an AI manager this year instead.” 

[Vanimal46]

30 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

No experienced coach would ever leave a perennial winner for a perennial loser.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

3 hours ago, JADBP said:

Well this is the only possible way that this decision makes any sense at all, but still looks really bad.  Maki was a fine coach.  The problem wasn’t his coaching, it was the lousy players he was given (as a result of horrific GM decisions or non-decisions)!  
 

Falvey/Zoll (indistinguishable between the two GMs) didn’t trade Ryan to Boston for a kings ransom (Tolle and Arias).  Traded away the entire BP and never replaced anyone in the off-season.  Started the season with Ryan, Ober, Bradley, SWR and who?  There is no way gods gift to pitching coaches could have succeeded with this staff. 

To me, this really sounds like Zoll/Falvey again blaming the coaching staff for his atrocious GM-ing!!!!

Shame on Pohlad for not seeing what is happening to his investment!!!
 

I’m mixed on this take. Kremer took a step forward while here. Ryan had a great first half and fell apart in the second. Taj had a very good year, Zebby has failed to improve, Ober has been steady and over performed his velo, but less than average.

on balance it feels like the rotation under performed, and also had a bit of a talent deficit.

i don’t know how much Maki was in charge of the bullpen, but that’s a big negative to Maki and Hawkins.

[mrguy]

I'll be curious what the new hire will end up being. Will they go outside hire, or promote internally? I genuinely would not be surprised if they floated the idea of promoting the Saints coaches up to the MLB level. Ricci has been quickly moving up the system and has basically been the coach for a decent amount of the high minors/MLB younger core across their minor league development so he'd make sense if the focus is someone that understands their future plans since he's the one that would have the most understanding of what their younger core can actually do. Obviously the question would be how good would they actually be in a major league role, and that I wouldn't know because it's not like the Saints had the best year pitching wise either.

[lecroy24fan]

With the lack of velocity of our pitchers I would hire Greg Maddux at whatever the cost. Or at least his brother Mike.

[purplesoldier4u]

52 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I’m mixed on this take. Kremer took a step forward while here. Ryan had a great first half and fell apart in the second. Taj had a very good year, Zebby has failed to improve, Ober has been steady and over performed his velo, but less than average.

on balance it feels like the rotation under performed, and also had a bit of a talent deficit.

i don’t know how much Maki was in charge of the bullpen, but that’s a big negative to Maki and Hawkins.

Zebby wan't that bad. For a guy who was pushed throught the minors, he was fine.

[Glorybound]

2 hours ago, C-Gangster said:

This is a new low even by the twins organization. The front office needs to go not the coaching staff. Unacceptable!

Not necessarily. I don’t know the inside scoop but he was a hold over from the last staff so it just might not have been a good marriage so to speak. Nothing changes if nothing changes. There needs to be some changes if you want to see improvements.

[Vanimal46]

14 minutes ago, lecroy24fan said:

With the lack of velocity of our pitchers I would hire Greg Maddux at whatever the cost. Or at least his brother Mike.

Mike? Who got fired mid season from the Angels?

[Mike Sixel]

5 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Just another meaningless and gutless move by management.  Lets blame tge Pitching coach.instead of the geniuses that put this staff together.  What a joke this organization continues to be.

Um. Falvey is gone. So, I'm not sure what you want?

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I’m mixed on this take. Kremer took a step forward while here. Ryan had a great first half and fell apart in the second. Taj had a very good year, Zebby has failed to improve, Ober has been steady and over performed his velo, but less than average.

on balance it feels like the rotation under performed, and also had a bit of a talent deficit.

i don’t know how much Maki was in charge of the bullpen, but that’s a big negative to Maki and Hawkins.

Zebby has failed to improve? Did we see the same stats? SWR sank this staff. 

Bradley Matthews and Prielipp look like keepers. Not sure how Ryan being Ryan or Ober losing his arm are on the coaching? 

I have no idea if this is a good move, but I'm also not sure I understand many of the posts in this thread. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

Why do you think TP had anything to do with this, I get people don't like the owner but this seems like conspiracy theory 101.

You have even said he was the one making decisions and that Zoll was a placeholder. Zoll doesn’t make this move on his own. Now I am curious if Shelton had an opinion or not. 

[HarmonK03]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

You have even said he was the one making decisions and that Zoll was a placeholder. Zoll doesn’t make this move on his own. Now I am curious if Shelton had an opinion or not. 

I have never said TP is making decisions on baseball personnel, players or coaches, or that he should.  He gave a general direction that he wanted to compete at the trade deadline which I didn't agree with at the time and still don't but it was his decision.

As for Maki, managers used to have more input into their coaching staffs than they do today.  I do recall some comments when Shelton was hired that Falvey was involved in the hiring process of the coaches.  And it led me to believe it was probably more then I wanted to see, but have no real idea.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

12 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

I have never said TP is making decisions on baseball personnel, players or coaches, or that he should.  He gave a general direction that he wanted to compete at the trade deadline which I didn't agree with at the time and still don't but it was his decision.

As for Maki, managers used to have more input into their coaching staffs than they do today.  I do recall some comments when Shelton was hired that Falvey was involved in the hiring process of the coaches.  And it led me to believe it was probably more then I wanted to see, but have no real idea.

I may be paraphrasing, you said Zoll didn’t have the experience or knowledge and being based on the performance of players and picks he was a part of he should be fired. 
 

Everything that happened this season was based off Toms view. Tom wanted to compete so we didn’t trade players at the end of their contracts. We bought significantly at the deadline even with a 30% chance because Tom said he would go big or go home. My personal opinion is Falvey was extremely independent and wasn’t going to be Tom’s lapdog or scapegoat on his crazy expectations of being winners this year. Likely a good choice as Maki was the scapegoat. I think Zoll is a yes man and a butt kisser which Tom likes and will follow Tom’s orders to a T even if they don’t make logical sense.  As I said at 5he beginning of the season you have an echo chamber at the top with extremely inexperienced individuals in Tom and Zoll for their respective positions. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Zebby has failed to improve? Did we see the same stats? SWR sank this staff. 

Bradley Matthews and Prielipp look like keepers. Not sure how Ryan being Ryan or Ober losing his arm are on the coaching? 

I have no idea if this is a good move, but I'm also not sure I understand many of the posts in this thread. 

Correct, SWR sank the staff.

i don’t mean to say I would cut bait on Zebby (he did pitch 130 solid innings in the bigs)just that while his ERA dropped because his GB rate increased, FIP, K% BB% HR% did not improve or got worse.

i would think part of a pitching coach’s job is to help pitchers develop techniques to not fade in the second half. I would also give Maki credit for working with Ober on remaining pretty effective with diminished stuff.

its why I’m mixed on it. I can see why Maki would be let go for performance, I’m not sure I would do the same.

 

[Old Twins Hat]

I'm just going to say it:  Glad they got rid of Maki.

Remember Wes Johnson?  Little guy with a big mouth, but believed in velocity?

Maki filled in for him.  And I thought to myself:  look at that guy, he seems like something off of Leave it to Beaver.  What the hell does he know about pitching?  Never heard of him, did he even ever pitch in organized baseball?

You know, after the manager, the pitching coach is really the next biggest face of management on the field.  And, trite as it may sound, you want that guy to look smart or tough or aggressive, or maybe even just look like he was once a great pitcher.

Took the Twins 3 years to figure that out.  Get on with it already.

 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

27 minutes ago, Old Twins Hat said:

I'm just going to say it:  Glad they got rid of Maki.

Remember Wes Johnson?  Little guy with a big mouth, but believed in velocity?

Maki filled in for him.  And I thought to myself:  look at that guy, he seems like something off of Leave it to Beaver.  What the hell does he know about pitching?  Never heard of him, did he even ever pitch in organized baseball?

You know, after the manager, the pitching coach is really the next biggest face of management on the field.  And, trite as it may sound, you want that guy to look smart or tough or aggressive, or maybe even just look like he was once a great pitcher.

Took the Twins 3 years to figure that out.  Get on with it already.

 

Glad to have you on the forum Tom.