Why Twins Fans Should Keep Going to Target Field

[Parfigliano]

4 hours ago, Twinkies are for eating said:

Always one of you in the crowd. I’m talking about paying for a streaming service to watch the Twins. So yeah, I pay for hulu, but I’m not paying to watch every Twins game. Did I explain it well enough for you? Prob not.

I can only imagine what a paradise this country would be were there more like me in the crowd.

[old nurse]

14 hours ago, NYCTK said:

The players don't want a salary cap for obvious reasons, it does nothing but steal money from the worker to give to the boss.

The solution to competitive issues would lie more in greater revenue sharing and/or greater competitive imbalance penalties on teams like the Dodgers and Mets. 

If we get down to it and there is a work stoppage in 2027 in MLB because the owners insist on a salary cap, remember that the players are almost certainly the good guys in the negotiations. I remember people complaining about the GREEDY players back in 1994, and those people were easily duped marks. 

The players are the ones who slashed what the minor league players made to profit themselves in the last negotiations,

[nclahammer]

For only the third time I can remember, I'm going to the game today just because of a pitcher.  I did this to see Justin Verlander at Target field once and to see Roger Clemens at the Metrodome.   Today that'll be me with the sign that says, "Just here for The Joe Ryan Experience."

[old nurse]

13 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

It all depends on how they determine the cap and floor. If you require 48% of league wide revenue (NFL percentage) to go back to the players, do you think that would be more or less revenue going to the players? I don't know, it'd depend on how much the large market teams are putting in now and whether that number would be raising or lowering their percentage.

If the MLBPA agreed to the reported previous proposals from ownership that were just set numbers not based on anything, it'd be a massive, massive win for the owners. But there's a chance the players could actually increase their cut if they can actually get the owners to open their books and agree to a deal that's based on a percentage of revenue. I don't know how likely that is, but it's not just a guaranteed win for ownership to have a cap. It depends on how the system is set up. And it depends on what percentage of revenue teams are actually spending now. Which we'll never know.

The guy over at twins trivia has a chart showing revenue versus spending on payroll for each team. He did not add up the totals  Sportrac will tell you that clubs will spend 5.2 b on payroll. Reported revenue 12b. Of course it isn’t really that simple. ProPublica did an article on how Ballmer makes multi millions off the Clippers a few years ago. .

Want ex-Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s low tax rate? Buy a sports team

Edit. Sorry bout that. Those huge honking letters are the title of the article. I am surprised they even let that go through.  

[old nurse]

8 hours ago, Twinkies are for eating said:

Always one of you in the crowd. I’m talking about paying for a streaming service to watch the Twins. So yeah, I pay for hulu, but I’m not paying to watch every Twins game. Did I explain it well enough for you? Prob not.

Did you understand that when you subscribe to a service that your money is paying for what you are watching. 

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

The players are the ones who slashed what the minor league players made to profit themselves in the last negotiations,

Idk what you're referring to with this. During last negotiations mlbpa basically doubled minor league pay. 

[TwinsDr2021]

16 hours ago, Dave Borton said:

If?

Players should agree to a salary cap and demand a more civilized 154 games per year.

4 players played in more than 160 games and 41 played in 154 or more. What does shorting the season do, a few extra days rest, Lower each players salary by 5%?

As for the a salary cap, be careful what you wish for, has that helped small market teams in the NBA or really any team that doesn't draft and develop well in any sport? 

There are so many details in baseball that would make it hard, does the cap include minor league players? Could the big market teams just pay/spent more for the young guys from other countries. How does paying draft picks effect payroll? so many questions. 

[TwinsDr2021]

58 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Did you understand that when you subscribe to a service that your money is paying for what you are watching. 

So if you are paying for a streaming service that doesn't have the twins, are you paying to watch the Twins? or do you have to pay for another streaming service to watch the Twins?

I believe that is the point that was being made, they are paying for a streaming service that doesn't have the Twins and isn't going to pay for an extra streaming service. But hey if the Twins get back on Hulu you would have a valid point. 

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

As for the a salary cap, be careful what you wish for, has that helped small market teams in the NBA or really any team that doesn't draft and develop well in any sport? 

This is an odd thing to say in a year where the OKLAHOMA CITY Thunder won the title vs the Indiana Pacers, and the T-Wolves were in the semis for the 2nd straight year.  

So...yes, a salary cap absolutely helps small market teams in literally every single league that has one.  No team in any league is going to be successful if they don't draft and develop well, but that's a totally separate issue than a salary cap.  

[Woof Bronzer]

3 hours ago, old nurse said:

The players are the ones who slashed what the minor league players made to profit themselves in the last negotiations,

Uh, what?  

Carrying water for owners is...weird enough, but no need to make stuff up out of thin air.  

[DJL44]

11 hours ago, Twinkies are for eating said:

Always one of you in the crowd. I’m talking about paying for a streaming service to watch the Twins. So yeah, I pay for hulu, but I’m not paying to watch every Twins game. Did I explain it well enough for you? Prob not.

I'd much rather pay to watch the Twins games than to watch Hulu. I have been very satisfied with the $100 I spent on Twins TV this season. I have mostly not watched the Twins for several years after cutting the cord on cable.

[TwinsDr2021]

26 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

This is an odd thing to say in a year where the OKLAHOMA CITY Thunder won the title vs the Indiana Pacers, and the T-Wolves were in the semis for the 2nd straight year.  

So...yes, a salary cap absolutely helps small market teams in literally every single league that has one.  No team in any league is going to be successful if they don't draft and develop well, but that's a totally separate issue than a salary cap.  

Its odd? Really, The wolves have been dreadful for how long? Since 04/05 prior to the last two years, they had made the playoffs 3 times and lost in the first round all three times.

The Pacers have drafted well and have won 50 and 47 games the last two years, Previously missed the playoffs for 3 years, prior to that lost 5 times in a row in the first round. 

OKC, prior to the last year, the last 8 years they lost in the first round 4 times, missed the playoffs 3 and lost in the Semis. 

of the three teams you mentioned there are two themes, drafting well, and the biggest stars of the league got old. (Lebron, Curry, Harden, Durant) 

Lets see what has happened in the NBA from 1999 - 2011 (Lakers - 7,  Spurs - 4, Mavericks - 2, )

from 2012 - 2020 (OKC - 1, Spurs - 2, Warriors - 5, Lakers - 1)

from 2021 - 2025 (Suns , Warriors, Nuggets, Mavericks, OKC, Leonard)

Not seeing a lot of small market teams there. 

More revenue sharing and some sort of floor will help, but IMO a salary cap isn't much help when the Front Office is great. The NBA is all about stars and location, the NFL is about a QB and coach and maybe a cap is needed in those two sport just to stop a team that has a Brady or Mahomes from winning all the superbowls? 

[jmlease1]

21 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

The twins will draw fans  , the younger fans will still go to games for entertainment and partying  ( alot of them have no passion for the game ) ...

The twins will lose alot of the conservative veteran fans that have the passion in the sport to follow and don't want to spend their money on a inferior product and dysfunctional organization  ...

I dislike this kind of gatekeeping that suggests that certain kinds of Twins fans are better than others. Making judgments about the people who go to games and there reasons isn't a good look and only serves to shrink the fanbase. If some fans are going to the game with a primary reason of partying...why is that bad? Those can also be the fans that 10 years later keep coming to games in part because they caught the baseball bug after having so many great days at the game.

There's no one right way to be a fan, IMHO.

I agree with Matthew's premise here: go to the game if you want, and don't let billionaire idiot owners deprive you if you can still get enjoyment out of it. If they've wrecked it for you, it's perfectly fine if you want to take a break as well. The Pohlads don't care about you, so you need to make sure you do.

[Woof Bronzer]

9 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Its odd? Really, The wolves have been dreadful for how long? Since 04/05 prior to the last two years, they had made the playoffs 3 times and lost in the first round all three times.

The Pacers have drafted well and have won 50 and 47 games the last two years, Previously missed the playoffs for 3 years, prior to that lost 5 times in a row in the first round. 

OKC, prior to the last year, the last 8 years they lost in the first round 4 times, missed the playoffs 3 and lost in the Semis. 

of the three teams you mentioned there are two themes, drafting well, and the biggest stars of the league got old. (Lebron, Curry, Harden, Durant) 

Lets see what has happened in the NBA from 1999 - 2011 (Lakers - 7,  Spurs - 4, Mavericks - 2, )

from 2012 - 2020 (OKC - 1, Spurs - 2, Warriors - 5, Lakers - 1)

from 2021 - 2025 (Suns , Warriors, Nuggets, Mavericks, OKC, Leonard)

Not seeing a lot of small market teams there. 

More revenue sharing and some sort of floor will help, but IMO a salary cap isn't much help when the Front Office is great. The NBA is all about stars and location, the NFL is about a QB and coach and maybe a cap is needed in those two sport just to stop a team that has a Brady or Mahomes from winning all the superbowls? 

Yes, it's odd that you said salary caps don't help small market NBA teams and one of the smallest market teams in pro sports just won an NBA title.  

You asked if salary caps help smaller market teams...the answer is yes....that doesn't mean a small market team is going to win every year.  Surely you know this though...

[TwinkieFan4life]

22 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

If boycotting or chanting "sell the team" or anything like that gives you some form of catharsis, then by all means, do what makes you happy.  If you think your entertainment dollars are better spent elsewhere, go for it.  You don't owe the Twins anything.  But if you think that these things will spur any sort of positive changes we fans would like to see, then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

[USAFChief]

19 hours ago, NYCTK said:

The players don't want a salary cap for obvious reasons, it does nothing but steal money from the worker to give to the boss.

The solution to competitive issues would lie more in greater revenue sharing and/or greater competitive imbalance penalties on teams like the Dodgers and Mets. 

If we get down to it and there is a work stoppage in 2027 in MLB because the owners insist on a salary cap, remember that the players are almost certainly the good guys in the negotiations. I remember people complaining about the GREEDY players back in 1994, and those people were easily duped marks. 

Bust the MLBPA, increase revenue sharing, install a floor and cap within $50M of each other. 

Make it about who identify, train and coach the best players. Like the NFL. 

 

[David Maro]

Salary Cap won't help a team that the organization drafts badly. They may or may not have a few players ready in the next 5 years. The list of players who look like bench players at best is high. Where is Miranda and of course we see Julien,Larnach and Wallner. 

The only thing for sure next year will be a increase in ticket prices and concession prices.

[NYCTK]

22 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Bust the MLBPA, increase revenue sharing, install a floor and cap within $50M of each other. 

Make it about who identify, train and coach the best players. Like the NFL. 

 

Busting the MLBPA is perhaps the worst opinion I've read on this website. Somehow even worse than Pohald defenders. 

[USAFChief]

48 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Busting the MLBPA is perhaps the worst opinion I've read on this website. Somehow even worse than Pohald defenders. 

Busting the MLBPA would be the single best thing to happen to MLB in decades.

Neutering the NFLPA pushed the NFL ahead miles.

[NYCTK]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Busting the MLBPA would be the single best thing to happen to MLB in decades.

Neutering the NFLPA pushed the NFL ahead miles.

Wow, another contender for worst comment of the year. 

[jmlease1]

12 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Busting the MLBPA would be the single best thing to happen to MLB in decades.

Neutering the NFLPA pushed the NFL ahead miles.

the NFLPA would have had to have been powerful for it to get neutered. 

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Uh, what?  

Carrying water for owners is...weird enough, but no need to make stuff up out of thin air.  

 

5 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Idk what you're referring to with this. During last negotiations mlbpa basically doubled minor league pay. 

Cut down the number of teams, cut down the draft. Net gain for the teams as less player expense, less equipment, less medical 

[The Great Hambino]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Bust the MLBPA, increase revenue sharing, install a floor and cap within $50M of each other. 

Make it about who identify, train and coach the best players. Like the NFL. 

 

You're not getting a floor and cap within $50MM of each other by busting the union.  We know this because of the pathetic offer of a $100MM floor with no mechanism for increases that was proposed by MLB in the last round of CBA negotiations

The Pirates of the world would fight against that kind of floor almost as aggressively as the players would fight against a cap.

Maybe we have different definitions of what "busting" a union means.  I read it as complete capitulation by the players

[USAFChief]

5 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

You're not getting a floor and cap within $50MM of each other by busting the union.  We know this because of the pathetic offer of a $100MM floor with no mechanism for increases that was proposed by MLB in the last round of CBA negotiations

The Pirates of the world would fight against that kind of floor almost as aggressively as the players would fight against a cap.

Maybe we have different definitions of what "busting" a union means.  I read it as complete capitulation by the players

"Increase revenue sharing."

There's a reason the Green Bay Packers can compete on even ground for players with the LA Rams. 

I say bust the union because that's what it'll take. And the MLBPA has long since outlived it's usefulness. It was once necessary for fairness and equity. Now it's just a hindrance to competition. 

[The Great Hambino]

5 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

"Increase revenue sharing."

There's a reason the Green Bay Packers can compete on even ground for players with the LA Rams. 

I say bust the union because that's what it'll take. And the MLBPA has long since outlived it's usefulness. It was once necessary for fairness and equity. Now it's just a hindrance to competition. 

You could pool all revenue and divide it completely equally, and that still won't get the budgetball owners to invest in their teams.  They'll just pocket even more revenue.  Those owners have already shown through their own behavior that increased shared revenue will not automatically find its way to payrolls.  The players would have to be fools to trust them to do so in any meaningful capacity

That high floor (and yes, accompanying revenue sharing) that the NFL has in place wasn't put there out of the goodness of the owners' hearts.  It was the product of tough negotiations; a major concession won by the NFLPA in exchange for the cap.

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

"Increase revenue sharing."

I say bust the union because that's what it'll take. And the MLBPA has long since outlived it's usefulness. It was once necessary for fairness and equity. Now it's just a hindrance to competition. 

He's on a roll. 3 terrible opinions, and this one is also paired with a "fact" that makes no sense.

Why would it be the players that are against revenue sharing between teams. Your ire should be directed at either the richer owners for being against it, or the "poorer" owners for just pocketing the revenue sharing as it is and refusing to use it to try to compete. 

[USAFChief]

51 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

You could pool all revenue and divide it completely equally, and that still won't get the budgetball owners to invest in their teams.  They'll just pocket even more revenue.  Those owners have already shown through their own behavior that increased shared revenue will not automatically find its way to payrolls.  The players would have to be fools to trust them to do so in any meaningful capacity

That high floor (and yes, accompanying revenue sharing) that the NFL has in place wasn't put there out of the goodness of the owners' hearts.  It was the product of tough negotiations; a major concession won by the NFLPA in exchange for the cap.

I am in favor of a floor as well as a cap.

[The Great Hambino]

11 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I am in favor of a floor as well as a cap.

I am too, I just don't trust the owners to willingly put a meaningful floor in themselves, which is why I push back against the idea of busting the union to achieve this.

It's been a big day for arguing the minutiae within the realm of general agreement around here

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, The Great Hambino said:

 

It's been a big day for arguing the minutiae within the realm of general agreement around here

Its my superpower. 

[Vanimal46]

One reason to go to Target Field is after 2026, the CBA negotiations will be nasty. I will be shocked if 162 games are played in 2027…

I think it’s going to turn out like the NHL in 2004. Lost season, with major concessions made by MLBPA once the season is canceled. This sport is going to die anyway if the gap between big budget teams and league average teams keeps growing like it is.