Trade deadline day thread

[USAFChief]

8 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That's funny, because his bat doesn't play at 3B.

It sure as **** played last year. 

[jaimedude]

The part that stinks for me most and I advocated for starting with some new pieces was that what is left iover. A lot of what is left over is a lot of guys that either underperformed, the corner outfielders and are not hitting well, and are not good defenders, and fill in guys. Instead of running talented younger players we are trotting out  old guys that are old for prospects.  Gasper, Kiersey jr, Clemmons, Bride, these are not players the Twins should be starting ever., not ever, those are barely bench guys.  The whole organization feels like it is stripped of pride and competitive aptitude. Do  well and be developed by Twins, what does it matter?  Twins will not pay and reward you.  This is what is referred to as studio baseball. Rays, A's , Reds they move players but  are competitive historically, This is a return to 1994 to 2001 level of spinning wheels and being absurdly mediocre. 

[tlkriens]

They trade away their top five RP, The Twins bullpen is 23rd in MLB with a 4.42 ERA.

[FilthyMogwai]

23 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

The feelings about today are about the returns in trade as much as the players going out the door.

Stewart given away for nothing

Varland moved while still pre-arb

Jax and Duran (especially Jax) dealt for underwhelming returns given the leverage the Twins had in the reliever market

Tagging France to the Varland trade, reducing the return in the process, all for a pittance of cash savings

The acquisition of another 37 LH hitting outfielders that can't hit

A tear down was justified.  It could have easily happened without any of the above happening.

I agree 100%! Half of my ire came when they decided to cut payroll after the most successful postseason in 2 decades. The other half came when the team still managed to compete going into the trade deadline last year and the FO sat on its hands.  That was demoralizing.  This August Eve Massacre sucks, but the current crop had already checked out.  They were flat and inconsistent long before the Rockies series. 

But, the fact that Falvey got bullied on nearly every trade sucks.  The only trade I am okay with the return on is Taj Bradley.  The Twins helped out a lot of teams the past two days.  This fire sale better help sell the team.  

At least it opens up playing time for some of the "kids" and they didn't sell off the SPs.  I guess there is that. 

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That's funny, because his bat doesn't play at 3B.

I was quoting someone else saying that. That they read it. I have no idea.....

[jaimedude]

TWINS NEW MOTTO. rise as one mediocre franchise.  Falvey had the nerve to say some of what was done today was reality of a small to mid-market team.        The Twins have never charged small  to mid-market prices for tickets or  concessions since they moved into Target Field. The  customer service sucks. The reality is we have horrible management and development staff and talent evaluators. This group has been here 7 years.  Instead of  investing in area scouts, advanced scouting video and data analytics Joe Pohlad made cuts in all those areas including the baseball academy and international scouting . WE HAVE D- OWNERS and a rinky dink run franchise.  What a demoralizing day today was. There is not one way you can put a positive spin on what was done today.  Falvey has a lot of nerve saying what he said when most of his first round picks have been busts, or trades away and he has been in charge for 7 years. What we have is ownership with no championship pedigree, Calvin Griffith built those teams, no bold  vision and no ability to build a winning culture. Blame the fans all you want but the entertainment product sucks. The Pohlads are Zero's and stink at baseball. They lucked into buying it, lucked into Andy McPhail, Bob Gebbard,  and will profit from it historically. 

[S Bart]

2 hours ago, S Bart said:

9 empty lockers to be filled including 5 relievers..(the rest pretty much spent time in AAA before being called back up)....Ridiculous... 

Sorry 10...almost 40% of the team changed over 48 hours..Wow!..looking at the relievers..the cupboard is fairly bare..

[S Bart]

The Twins responsible for about a third of Correa's salary...they cut loose  approximately 70 

Million

[S Bart]

21 minutes ago, FilthyMogwai said:

I need a cigarette

Or something stronger

[S Bart]

32 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'd argue it wasn't a "complete tear-down and re-build" at all. They didn't trade their most valuable piece. Well, their 3 most valuable pieces, but 2 are hurt. If they trade their 3 top starters this offseason, THAT will be a complete tear-down. And bringing back 28 year old James Outman is not a re-build move, it's a re-tool move.

And it most certainly wasn't "everybody on TD." I don't know if it was most or not, but it certainly wasn't "everybody." I didn't want a complete tear-down. I do now, though. I want them to trade Ryan, Jeffers, Lopez, Ober, and Larnach at a minimum this offseason. No reason to keep those guys now. If today changed Buxton's mind about being a 1-jersey player, trade him, too.

But today wasn't a "complete tear-down and re-build." It was a half tear-down and combo re-build/re-tool. And that's why I hated it. They didn't pick a lane. They tried to have their cake and eat it, too. And it's why they'll continue to struggle. If they'd just have done a complete tear-down and re-build I would've been just as shocked as I was today, but wouldn't have hated it. But at least they would've picked a lane. Getting a 28-year-old OFer, 25-year-old OFer, 16-year-old, 18-year-old, and everything in between is trying to win everything and it's why they won't win anything. 

Falvey always says they don't care about anything but getting value. They don't care if it's present day or future, they just want to get value. Well, at least he's honest because they sure embraced that this week. But just following their value chart and having no apparent plan for when they're making a true effort to compete just makes it all a muddied mess. 

I'll leave the door open for the chance that they turn around and make follow-up moves during the offseason that consolidate things more, but I'm not holding my breath. If they do I will apologize for my rants today and say I was wrong and they had more of a plan than I gave them credit for. But as of right now the only semblance of a plan I see is them half-way trying to compete now and half-way trying to compete around 2029. And that's no plan at all.

The tear down was the bullpen.. Big time. Consider how the manager uses this group ...

[Doc Lenz]

1 hour ago, mnfireman said:

Funny how everybody on TD wanted a complete tear-down and re-build, and now complains that it happened.. What happened today was a total tear-down, Twins fans are not used to this, but they are doing what you, as fans, are asking for, and hoping to be competitive in a couple years. With any luck it will not be a Pirates, Rockies or Athletics rebuild...

 

 

Everybody is a pretty wide swathe. It’s not true, there are folks here that truly believed the team could recover. Right or wrong they are “True fans”. I hope you speak for yourself going forward.

[DJL44]

The next round of prospect voting should be a blast. Here's how MLB.com slots in the new acquisitions

4) Tait (for Duran)

6) Abel (for Duran)

7) Rojas (for Varland, ranks ahead of Dasan Hill)

16) Gallagher (for Castro, ahead of Charlee Soto)

20) Mendez (for Bader)

24) Jimenez (for Paddack)

Not ranked - OF Alan Roden, RHP Geremy Villoria, LHP Garrett Horn, RHP Sam Armstrong, RHP Mike Mikulski

MLB players - Outman, Bradley

 

[bunsen82]

I went through the trades, surprisingly the values line up with the Twins ahead on every trade but Stewart for Outman and the trade with the Cubs. Stewart must be damaged goods and or the Twins have an infinity for Outman. Boy did we end up with a variety, young players to old players, helium players to fully deflated balloons.  All in all I think the return is ok to above average which is more than I could say this afternoon. 
 

I mentioned it before but more than anything these trades appear to me to be tanking for the draft lottery. My guess is we will have a sale, we will be in a good position, and the Twins will get the first or second pick in what should be a loaded draft.  The value of a first or second pick for a player like a Skenes is franchise altering. The easiest way to tank and later rebuild is to trade away your bullpen.  Falvey has punted on the bullpen until the last 2 years, I think his view is it’s a luxury. You can rebuild a pen overtime by constantly running through retreads and finding a Stewart,  offering a cheap contract like Coloumbe, or transitioning failed starter prospects like Duran, Jax Varland and Sands. 
Ultimately we can rebuild the bullpen, but it’ll take 2 years to build it organically.  Or you can rebuild through trades and free agent. 
 

So with that being said, we still have a very good rotation. We have some decent positional players. Trading Correa was additional through subtraction.  We have some decent lot of solid prospects in the minors. I still think best case is we are competitive again in 2027 and most likely 2028.  That means we are likely trading Ryan, Ober and Lopez in the offseason or next years trade deadline.  
 

I was for a reset, but the Varland, Jax and Stewart trades seemed mean spirited. It was no longer about getting excess value, it was about saving money and ensuring we lose. We keep those 3 with Sand and we can still win a lot of games.  
 

I will continue to watch, just as I did in the mid 90’s.  See who is improving, who still is struggling with second third or fourth shot.  I am still a Twins fan for life, but damn today was rougher than I anticipated. 

 

[jaimedude]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I hope everyone cancels their streaming. 

I,'m canceling. Not buying 1 more tickets until Pohlads sell.

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’ll look and see how they manage to fill out a roster for tomorrow… But there’s no way in hell I’m wasting time in the near future watching this team on TV. And unless there’s an organized Sell the Team protest for a home game, I won’t spend a dime attending TF the rest of the season. 

I can't wait to watch tomorrow.  What will the guys in the booth have to say?  Who starts? Who is in the bullpen?  Who is on the bench?

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, mnfireman said:

Funny how everybody on TD wanted a complete tear-down and re-build, and now complains that it happened.. What happened today was a total tear-down, Twins fans are not used to this, but they are doing what you, as fans, are asking for, and hoping to be competitive in a couple years. With any luck it will not be a Pirates, Rockies or Athletics rebuild...

 

 

No complaints here.  Let the new era begin.

[thelanges5]

Saints are in Toledo, only 116 miles from Cleveland. Who’s in the car with Julien heading to progressive field?

[knothole61]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Zero chance. They still haven't finalized a Las Vegas deal, meanwhile Tampa and the White Sox are trying to get a new stadium. After that, you still have a dozen teams ahead of the Twins in pecking order to get new stadiums. The rest of the owners will not let the Pohlads take away one of their threat cities since relocating is the ultimate weapon for these guys.

Nick, Ryan Pressly may be heading back to Minnesota on that covered wagon soon!

[Aggies7]

28 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

I can't wait to watch tomorrow.  What will the guys in the booth have to say?  Who starts? Who is in the bullpen?  Who is on the bench?

I kind of agree with this. It will be a more interesting watch than the usual lineup. Now maybe I’ll tune out after the novelty wears off, but it will interesting to see how they try and piece together the last two months.

[BiggestRoccoFan]

I think most of the folks in their 40's remember the collapse during the summer of 92 and the team stunk until 2002. I hate to break it to you people but those days are back. 

We are the laughing stock of MLB right now. 

This goes up there with the 97 Marlins dismantling but at least they won the World Series.

The Varland trade makes no sense. Minnesota kid and not making any $. Under team control for several years. 

I think I am a better pitcher than the guy they got for Correa. 

If you think going into Spring Training next year that Joe Ryan and Pablo Lopez are going to be here you are dreaming,

[BiggestRoccoFan]

2 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Funny how everybody on TD wanted a complete tear-down and re-build, and now complains that it happened.. What happened today was a total tear-down, Twins fans are not used to this, but they are doing what you, as fans, are asking for, and hoping to be competitive in a couple years. With any luck it will not be a Pirates, Rockies or Athletics rebuild...

 

 

The problem is the trades they made were not good. 

The problem I have with this is that we are now the laughing stock of MLB.

No free agent worth a salt is going to sign here. Ever.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

57 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

 

Not ranked - OF Alan Roden, RHP Geremy Villoria, LHP Garrett Horn, RHP Sam Armstrong, RHP Mike Mikulski

MLB players - Outman, Bradley

Roden's not ranked because he graduated. I don't know if you can access preseason lists at MLB, but he was 3rd on the Jays' preseason list at Fangraphs. That writeup is worth a read—I don't like or really understand trading Varland, but Roden is intriguing.

[Vanimal46]

50 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

I can't wait to watch tomorrow.  What will the guys in the booth have to say?  Who starts? Who is in the bullpen?  Who is on the bench?

Will Provus change his signature call from “Heeee struck him out!” to “Heeeee struck out!” Talking about our offense? So many exciting things happening in Twins Territory 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

Will Provus change his signature call from “Heeee struck him out!” to “Heeeee struck out!” Talking about our offense? So many exciting things happening in Twins Territory 

More like.....whooooo is this.

[knothole61]

2 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

The feelings about today are about the returns in trade as much as the players going out the door.

Stewart given away for nothing

Varland moved while still pre-arb

Jax and Duran (especially Jax) dealt for underwhelming returns given the leverage the Twins had in the reliever market

Tagging France to the Varland trade, reducing the return in the process, all for a pittance of cash savings

The acquisition of another 37 LH hitting outfielders that can't hit

A tear down was justified.  It could have easily happened without any of the above happening.

Hambino, that couldn't have been written much better, in my humble opinion. Truthin'

[S Bart]

1 hour ago, Doc Lenz said:

Everybody is a pretty wide swathe. It’s not true, there are folks here that truly believed the team could recover. Right or wrong they are “True fans”. I hope you speak for yourself going forward.

Agree with you...I don't know of a "complete teardown" per your response to that other person that stated Twins fans wanted it. It was understood that individuals with contracts expiring would probably be departing. Emptying the bullpen of the top 5 relievers was way beyond belief, especially the way the manager constantly uses them. It specially made no sense as most of them were under control and what was returned in exchange is questionable. I fully can't comprehend the Varland issue.

[jaimedude]

2 hours ago, S Bart said:

Or something stronger

I need pot to calm down and turn my frown upside down. 

[knothole61]

2 hours ago, S Bart said:

Sorry 10...almost 40% of the team changed over 48 hours..Wow!..looking at the relievers..the cupboard is fairly bare..

Bart, I keep Varland, Jax, and Castro.

Jax, as a 7th inning or at times set-up guy still has real value despite his tendency to melt in high-leverage situations. Varland, and his contract absolutely should have remained a Twin: what a head scratcher that trade was! And, although Castro has been in a batting funk and, especially in the OF is a bit of a Dr. Strangeglove character, it's hard to give up a player who is so capable as a plug-in utility man and who also has decent speed and can get hot at times at the plate. Castro's versatility will be hard to replace.  

Goodbye Bader: you were an excellent pick up for as long as it lasted, but you were never slated to be a Twin for long. He's an excellent fielder and occasional clutch hitter, but I must say that I've seldom seem a major leaguer swing from his heels at pitches so damn far out of the zone. He is an odd and flamboyant man and I will miss his eccentricity and crop-dusted cap, yet I've not quite forgotten his failure to snag what seemed to be a catchable ball off the bat of Freddie Freeman that would have secured a truly epic win over the vaunted Dodgers. Lefties hitting oppo can impart some awful spin on the ball, and maybe that was the reason for Bader's miss, yet it remains a stark and unfortunate memory for me from the several month long "Bader Era" in Minnesota.

Good luck in Philly Tots. Incidentally, the Twins may never again have a player whose first name was also the last name of two U.S. presidents...how about that fans?   

[Longdistancetwins]

Just to make conversation, a casual friend here in New York asked me last week if my team would be buyers or sellers.  At least I gave the right answer 😉

[Watersmack]

4 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’m sure baseball historians like Jayson Stark and Buster Olney are on the case. My guess is we just witnessed a historic fire sale. 

Olney had a hairpiece adjustment scheduled for today. He may weigh in next Monday if the guide channels have settled.