Could the Twins Trade Joe Ryan? 6 Suitors to Watch if Minnesota Sells High on Their Ace

[Vanimal46]

6 hours ago, Road trip said:

Also getting Duran for Eddie E (loved Eddie, but that one worked out well).

Getting Maeda for Graterol was probably a minor win, given the Graterol hasn't quite become the stud many hoped for.

Jake Odorizzi seems like ancient history now, but that was also a good get... gave up nothing of value.

But yeah, overall, they are maybe hitting .500 at best on trades as we could also name several that didn't work out.

If we can literally count on one hand how many good trades there has been in 9 years it’s time to move on. 

[Riverbrian]

19 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Larnach (I don't think they'll pay his arb raises),

I spent almost a day trying to figure out how to quote this line from this discussion and respond to it in a more appropriate discussion. 

Couldn't figure out how to do that. So... Oh Well. 

Yes... it is quite possible that they will not offer arbitration to Trevor Larnach. 

If they don't offer arb... That's pretty impressive. 

They literally waited until Trevor's last year with the club to give him AB's vs lefties. 

 

 

[twinstalker]

You are focusing on the wrong prospects.  Caissie will be pretty bad, for instance.

 

 

[chpettit19]

14 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I probably overrate Ryan's value, but I don't think I overrate his value to the Twins. IF we want to compete in the next couple of years we need Ryan and Lopez to be a high end one-two punch at the front of the rotation. While I don't want to hold onto players this year so we can win 83 games instead of 78, I'm not ready for a complete tear down and rebuild. I think trading Ryan is a step we should only take as part of a complete rebuild. I think having him along with Lopez at the front of the rotation is a crucial element for the Twins to compete in 2026 or 2027. 

I can understand this argument, but the same argument can be made about Jax and Duran closing out games. And Ober providing them with a 3rd playoff starter. Now we've taken out all their truly valuable trade chips and I just don't see a way to truly impact change on the position player side. And, in my opinion, without real change on the position player side you're not competing in 2026 or 2027 anyways and then all you've done is hold onto these guys and get 5 comp picks in return and this org has doomed itself.

I'm positive Cleveland fans didn't want to see Francisco Lindor traded. Or Corey Kluber. Tampa fans thought there was no way they could compete without Blake Snell. And then Tyler Glasnow. Milwaukee fans were convinced they were doomed without Corbin Burnes, especially with Brandon Woodruff injured. I get the fear, I really do. I just think you're essentially saying "they've failed to develop any real position player talent so far, but they're going to make it happen in the next 2 years." Unless you see another way to get that side of the team to improve. Which I'm open to, but haven't seen anyone even attempt to suggest how to do it.

I reject the idea that trading a singular starting pitcher means it has to be a full rebuild. And if it does actually mean that then I'd argue this team needs a full rebuild because it's 1 injury away from each of the next 2 seasons being completely and utterly destroyed. Whether or not this front office can pull off the right trade is one question, but if you can build a package around a Dalton Rushing or Samuel Basallo type MLB ready catcher plus other pieces I don't see why trading one of these starting pitchers has to destroy this team. They have to get the trade right, and it's never fun trading your studs. But letting all these arms leave for comp picks in 2 years is a far worse outcome than trading one or 2 for way more than comp picks.

But the Twins have to be able to develop talent or none of anything works. Festa, Zebby, and SWR have to be able to back fill to some extent. Is Festa figuring it out? If he is, trading Ryan, Lopez, or Ober now or in the offseason is the right move to compete in 2026 and 2027, in my opinion.

 

[tony&rodney]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I can understand this argument, but the same argument can be made about Jax and Duran closing out games. And Ober providing them with a 3rd playoff starter. Now we've taken out all their truly valuable trade chips and I just don't see a way to truly impact change on the position player side. And, in my opinion, without real change on the position player side you're not competing in 2026 or 2027 anyways and then all you've done is hold onto these guys and get 5 comp picks in return and this org has doomed itself.

I'm positive Cleveland fans didn't want to see Francisco Lindor traded. Or Corey Kluber. Tampa fans thought there was no way they could compete without Blake Snell. And then Tyler Glasnow. Milwaukee fans were convinced they were doomed without Corbin Burnes, especially with Brandon Woodruff injured. I get the fear, I really do. I just think you're essentially saying "they've failed to develop any real position player talent so far, but they're going to make it happen in the next 2 years." Unless you see another way to get that side of the team to improve. Which I'm open to, but haven't seen anyone even attempt to suggest how to do it.

I reject the idea that trading a singular starting pitcher means it has to be a full rebuild. And if it does actually mean that then I'd argue this team needs a full rebuild because it's 1 injury away from each of the next 2 seasons being completely and utterly destroyed. Whether or not this front office can pull off the right trade is one question, but if you can build a package around a Dalton Rushing or Samuel Basallo type MLB ready catcher plus other pieces I don't see why trading one of these starting pitchers has to destroy this team. They have to get the trade right, and it's never fun trading your studs. But letting all these arms leave for comp picks in 2 years is a far worse outcome than trading one or 2 for way more than comp picks.

But the Twins have to be able to develop talent or none of anything works. Festa, Zebby, and SWR have to be able to back fill to some extent. Is Festa figuring it out? If he is, trading Ryan, Lopez, or Ober now or in the offseason is the right move to compete in 2026 and 2027, in my opinion.

 

Great comment. MLB teams cannot operate with fear. I'll add that Tampa Bay also lost a guy who was their best player for no return due to that player's youthful ignorance (Wander Franco). 

I have been stunned by the Twins total failure to reimagine the roster each of the last two years. I sat 10 feet from Dusty Baker and thought as I watched .... the Twins are 2-3 trades away from being a good team. There weren't any players available in free agency unless you believed that Judge or Soto would sign with the Twins. Now, I'm wondering if the Twins even have any substantial conversations with other front offices regarding potential tranactions. Trevor Richards type deals and Bader/France signings aren't an answer. 

I'm in need of help in understanding how folks can watch Wallner in the outfield and not see that his defense is the equal or worse than what we saw from Julian at second base. Perhaps I'm being too rough on those two but the defense in general is subpar as is the base running and situational hitting. These flaws can only be solved through roster moves and trading with other teams is needed. The Twins don't have any untouchables.

[ziggy]

The hardest position to fill is a front line starter. Joe Ryan is that.

I probably over value Twins players but the return suggested for Ryan does not seem like enough. I think the player value right now is the return the Twins would get next year at this time with one less year of control.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not blown away with the player value return at this time.

[Major League Ready]

12 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

If we can literally count on one hand how many good trades there has been in 9 years it’s time to move on. 

How many trades did they give someone away that produced for a player who performed during the period they would have been under contract for the Twins.  The trade for Mahle was pretty bad and the trade for Jorge Lopez was bad but those trades were praised here.  Pressly was bad.   Rooker got very little love here and most people wanted him gone.

They gave away nothing for Ryan, Duran, and Odorizzi.  We gave something away for Pablo but that one seems to be in our favor.  Sonny Gray was a good exchange.  The Polanco deal remains to be seen but they gave away nothing and GG looks good.

[BillyBallLives]

21 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I love your willingness to listen! Thank you.

I just think we all need to respect how hard Falvey's job is. Its easy to Monday Morning Quarterback all his moves. He’s not running the *Dodgers or the Yankees where you can just write a blank check and fix problems with money.  And yet,  I don’t blindly trust him. But I also don’t think it’s fair to act like this is some cakewalk job.  

*Dodgers ( they have the have money , But let’s not pretend that’s the only reason they’re good. Those guys know how to scout and develop talent, too.)

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I can understand this argument, but the same argument can be made about Jax and Duran closing out games. And Ober providing them with a 3rd playoff starter. Now we've taken out all their truly valuable trade chips and I just don't see a way to truly impact change on the position player side. And, in my opinion, without real change on the position player side you're not competing in 2026 or 2027 anyways and then all you've done is hold onto these guys and get 5 comp picks in return and this org has doomed itself.

I'm positive Cleveland fans didn't want to see Francisco Lindor traded. Or Corey Kluber. Tampa fans thought there was no way they could compete without Blake Snell. And then Tyler Glasnow. Milwaukee fans were convinced they were doomed without Corbin Burnes, especially with Brandon Woodruff injured. I get the fear, I really do. I just think you're essentially saying "they've failed to develop any real position player talent so far, but they're going to make it happen in the next 2 years." Unless you see another way to get that side of the team to improve. Which I'm open to, but haven't seen anyone even attempt to suggest how to do it.

I reject the idea that trading a singular starting pitcher means it has to be a full rebuild. And if it does actually mean that then I'd argue this team needs a full rebuild because it's 1 injury away from each of the next 2 seasons being completely and utterly destroyed. Whether or not this front office can pull off the right trade is one question, but if you can build a package around a Dalton Rushing or Samuel Basallo type MLB ready catcher plus other pieces I don't see why trading one of these starting pitchers has to destroy this team. They have to get the trade right, and it's never fun trading your studs. But letting all these arms leave for comp picks in 2 years is a far worse outcome than trading one or 2 for way more than comp picks.

But the Twins have to be able to develop talent or none of anything works. Festa, Zebby, and SWR have to be able to back fill to some extent. Is Festa figuring it out? If he is, trading Ryan, Lopez, or Ober now or in the offseason is the right move to compete in 2026 and 2027, in my opinion.

 

I hear your argument; I just don't agree but I think our differences are ones of degree. We may have different thoughts on the team's timeline. While I don't think the Twins have enough to contend this year, I do think they may in 2026 and 2027. I think the pitching side is good enough as is if everyone stays healthy, recognizing that the chances of complete pitching health is essentially zero, I think they're basically one starter and two relievers away from both having enough pitching to truly contend and being able to withstand a "normal" amount of injuries (even the Dodgers can't withstand a true glut of injuries as we're finding out). I think it's very possible that those pitchers are in the system now with Morris, Ohl, Lewis, and the rapidly improving Raya at AAA, and Paredes, Klein, CJ Culpepper, and Prielipp in AA. I'm against taking away from the area of the team where we might be good enough to contend next year. 

I do agree that the lineup isn't good enough. The 3 former players who broadcasted the Cubs games were right; this lineup isn't good enough unless Buxton. Correa, Lewis, and Wallner are all going strong and I would add that at least one of Larnach, Lee, and Keaschall have to also be an above-average hitter before we have barely enough. It's really 2 of the latter and I would add Castro IF he's staying beyond 2025 (I don't think he is). . My approach isn't to trade pitching now at the deadline to get bats, I would be to take the rest of this season to find out what we really have. So I would trade Castro and Bader unless you are/think you can re-sign them; they have Fangraphs 35+ to 45 type talent value coming back. I would trade Paddack; he may have some value if you attach a lottery ticket A ball guy with upside. I would give away France for a lottery ticket. No one will give you anything for Clemens so he's either a DFA or the 26th man. Strangely, I think we have to keep Vasquez because we don't have anyone else unless you believe in Cardenas and he does have some defensive/handling pitching staff value.  

How do we find out what we have? Play some guys at the MLB level. Keaschall plays every day when he comes back. Wallner plays against LH pitching (I think the ship has sailed on Larnach being able to hit LH pitching). Lee plays 5 days a week. Call up Julien and give him some run. Remember, Julien actually had an .840 OPS in 2023 before falling off the table in 2024. He's hitting in AAA so either trade him or give him a one last shot at 1B, maybe in a platoon/time share with Sabato. Emma and Martin come up to be the 4th and 5th OFs if you trade Castro and Bader and they actually play 3-4 days a week, more if (when) we fall out of the race. Are Jenkins and/or K Culpepper ready for a cup of coffee? Maybe so. How about giving Prielipp, Ohl, or Paredes a shot in the bullpen?  

Windows of contention in sports are fickle. I actually think the Twins could be in one in 2026 and 2027, but not if they trade Lopez or Ryan. Use the rest of this year to see if we can augment the roster internally and backfill with prospects from trading vets on expiring contracts. Keep the pitching. Then make some decisions in the offseason. New ownership may pony up for Ryan in the offseason. After all, a boy can dream . . .

 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I can understand this argument, but the same argument can be made about Jax and Duran closing out games. And Ober providing them with a 3rd playoff starter. Now we've taken out all their truly valuable trade chips and I just don't see a way to truly impact change on the position player side. And, in my opinion, without real change on the position player side you're not competing in 2026 or 2027 anyways and then all you've done is hold onto these guys and get 5 comp picks in return and this org has doomed itself.

I'm positive Cleveland fans didn't want to see Francisco Lindor traded. Or Corey Kluber. Tampa fans thought there was no way they could compete without Blake Snell. And then Tyler Glasnow. Milwaukee fans were convinced they were doomed without Corbin Burnes, especially with Brandon Woodruff injured. I get the fear, I really do. I just think you're essentially saying "they've failed to develop any real position player talent so far, but they're going to make it happen in the next 2 years." Unless you see another way to get that side of the team to improve. Which I'm open to, but haven't seen anyone even attempt to suggest how to do it.

I reject the idea that trading a singular starting pitcher means it has to be a full rebuild. And if it does actually mean that then I'd argue this team needs a full rebuild because it's 1 injury away from each of the next 2 seasons being completely and utterly destroyed. Whether or not this front office can pull off the right trade is one question, but if you can build a package around a Dalton Rushing or Samuel Basallo type MLB ready catcher plus other pieces I don't see why trading one of these starting pitchers has to destroy this team. They have to get the trade right, and it's never fun trading your studs. But letting all these arms leave for comp picks in 2 years is a far worse outcome than trading one or 2 for way more than comp picks.

But the Twins have to be able to develop talent or none of anything works. Festa, Zebby, and SWR have to be able to back fill to some extent. Is Festa figuring it out? If he is, trading Ryan, Lopez, or Ober now or in the offseason is the right move to compete in 2026 and 2027, in my opinion.

 

Agree 99%

The 1%... I continue to believe that you don't trade for Rushing or Basallo to fill the massive hole at catcher.  Take your limited trade capitol that you'd spend on a catcher and trade for a player who can in theory play 162 games instead. Rushing will play 120 games max or in the case of the 50/50 thing we do... 100 games. On the other hand for a similiar price... if not less (Insert 1B Prospect) could potentially be available for all 162.  

I get the importance of catching but I'd rather the organization sleep in the bed they made rather than over pay to fix it.  

Everything else is spot on. The Tigers are another prime example. They sold last year at the deadline because they thought the season was over. It ended up being the fastest rebuild in the history of the sport. I'm sure Tigersdaily was pissed initially and look at them now.   

The trading of Joe Ryan doesn't have to signify a full rebuild. The teams you have mentioned have kept their train rolling with these types of moves but they have been able to consistently capably succussfully backfill with home grown talent making the minimum.  

However, the trading of Joe Ryan so they can take the money he would get in arbitration just to spread it around and fill 9 open spaces is what signifies it time for a full rebuild. When JT Brubaker, James McCann, Dominic Smith come rolling into Fort Myers with Baldelli gushing about them to the press with payroll still around 140 million. You might as well start over at that point. 

I have no reason to expect this front office/manager will leave Fort Myers with a plane containing, 7 or 8 rookies sitting in the back of the plane. Not with the faith they exhibit toward their own product, not when they demonstrate that they would rather roster cast off's developed by other organizations when 26 man spots open up.       

 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Agree 99%

The 1%... I continue to believe that you don't trade for Rushing or Basallo to fill the massive hole at catcher.  Take your limited trade capitol that you'd spend on a catcher and trade for a player who can in theory play 162 games instead. Rushing will play 120 games max or in the case of the 50/50 thing we do... 100 games. On the other hand for a similiar price... if not less (Insert 1B Prospect) could potentially be available for all 162.  

I get the importance of catching but I'd rather the organization sleep in the bed they made rather than over pay to fix it.  

Everything else is spot on. The Tigers are another prime example. They sold last year at the deadline because they thought the season was over. It ended up being the fastest rebuild in the history of the sport. I'm sure Tigersdaily was pissed initially and look at them now.   

The trading of Joe Ryan doesn't have to signify a full rebuild. The teams you have mentioned have kept their train rolling with these types of moves but they have been able to consistently capably succussfully backfill with home grown talent making the minimum.  

However, the trading of Joe Ryan so they can take the money he would get in arbitration just to spread it around and fill 9 open spaces is what signifies it time for a full rebuild. When JT Brubaker, James McCann, Dominic Smith come rolling into Fort Myers with Baldelli gushing about them to the press with payroll still around 140 million. You might as well start over at that point. 

I have no reason to expect this front office/manager will leave Fort Myers with a plane containing, 7 or 8 rookies sitting in the back of the plane. Not with the faith they exhibit toward their own product, not when they demonstrate that they would rather roster cast off's developed by other organizations when 26 man spots open up.       

 

I'd get the best return I can on the offensive side of things. I think Basallo is an offensive weapon who happens to also be a catcher. He'd be my number 1 target. Rushing I threw in there because I know people around here love to target catching in every trade. Basallo would catch, DH, and play 1B for me if I acquired him. Don't think there's any chance Baltimore trades him, but I'd ask nicely anyways.

But, otherwise, yes, we agree. I don't care about position. Get a shortstop if they're the best player. The Twins need offense. And defense. And base running. They need position player talent. The catcher names was just to throw the hounds a bone. I do think Basallo is an answer to multiple Twins questions, though. I think he's an absolute star that I'd start 162 games, including a bunch at catcher.

[chpettit19]

17 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I hear your argument; I just don't agree but I think our differences are ones of degree. We may have different thoughts on the team's timeline. While I don't think the Twins have enough to contend this year, I do think they may in 2026 and 2027. I think the pitching side is good enough as is if everyone stays healthy, recognizing that the chances of complete pitching health is essentially zero, I think they're basically one starter and two relievers away from both having enough pitching to truly contend and being able to withstand a "normal" amount of injuries (even the Dodgers can't withstand a true glut of injuries as we're finding out). I think it's very possible that those pitchers are in the system now with Morris, Ohl, Lewis, and the rapidly improving Raya at AAA, and Paredes, Klein, CJ Culpepper, and Prielipp in AA. I'm against taking away from the area of the team where we might be good enough to contend next year. 

I do agree that the lineup isn't good enough. The 3 former players who broadcasted the Cubs games were right; this lineup isn't good enough unless Buxton. Correa, Lewis, and Wallner are all going strong and I would add that at least one of Larnach, Lee, and Keaschall have to also be an above-average hitter before we have barely enough. It's really 2 of the latter and I would add Castro IF he's staying beyond 2025 (I don't think he is). . My approach isn't to trade pitching now at the deadline to get bats, I would be to take the rest of this season to find out what we really have. So I would trade Castro and Bader unless you are/think you can re-sign them; they have Fangraphs 35+ to 45 type talent value coming back. I would trade Paddack; he may have some value if you attach a lottery ticket A ball guy with upside. I would give away France for a lottery ticket. No one will give you anything for Clemens so he's either a DFA or the 26th man. Strangely, I think we have to keep Vasquez because we don't have anyone else unless you believe in Cardenas and he does have some defensive/handling pitching staff value.  

How do we find out what we have? Play some guys at the MLB level. Keaschall plays every day when he comes back. Wallner plays against LH pitching (I think the ship has sailed on Larnach being able to hit LH pitching). Lee plays 5 days a week. Call up Julien and give him some run. Remember, Julien actually had an .840 OPS in 2023 before falling off the table in 2024. He's hitting in AAA so either trade him or give him a one last shot at 1B, maybe in a platoon/time share with Sabato. Emma and Martin come up to be the 4th and 5th OFs if you trade Castro and Bader and they actually play 3-4 days a week, more if (when) we fall out of the race. Are Jenkins and/or K Culpepper ready for a cup of coffee? Maybe so. How about giving Prielipp, Ohl, or Paredes a shot in the bullpen?  

Windows of contention in sports are fickle. I actually think the Twins could be in one in 2026 and 2027, but not if they trade Lopez or Ryan. Use the rest of this year to see if we can augment the roster internally and backfill with prospects from trading vets on expiring contracts. Keep the pitching. Then make some decisions in the offseason. New ownership may pony up for Ryan in the offseason. After all, a boy can dream . . .

 

I don't disagree with that plan. I think we've actually discussed it before. It's why I wouldn't be in any rush to trade Ryan now. That's what I'd do with the rest of 2025, too. And 2026 and 2027 are the target window I'm looking at, too. Or I'd be pushing for a full rebuild and I'd be all over these boards saying they should blow the whole thing up and trade everybody. Part of my 2026 and 2027 plan includes trading one of the arms, though. 

I'm all for seeing what they have in the system. Gaining data and giving experience. But I think it'd be naive and too much wishful thinking to go into 2026 with only guys currently in the org and more low cost, 1-year vets on the position player side. Seattle has been showing us for years what happens when you have all pitching and no offense. It doesn't work.

If Ober comes back and looks like his old self then trade him if you think Lopez and Ryan have to stay. He'd bring a worthy return. If not, it has to be one of Ryan or Lopez. Because you need to bring in more talent on the offensive side to open this window more. Festa, Zebby, and SWR need to be able to step up. The system needs to produce. Or it's all doomed.

So, since they need offense from outside the org to help, and they can't afford to add free agent offense. And they need their internal pitching prospects to step up anyways. The only path to truly opening that window for 2026 and 2027 is by trading one of Lopez, Ryan, or Ober. And Ober's name comes off that list if he doesn't come back and dominate. Otherwise, I see no reason to go into 2026 expecting anything other than what we've seen for 2024 and 2025. And if 2026 goes the same way, it's full rebuild time because you can't go into 2027 with all those guys on 1-year deals and this entire wave of prospects already in the bigs. There's no more waiting, in my view. At least 1 tough decision needs to be made before 2026 to better balance this roster.

[tony&rodney]

37 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I do think Basallo is an answer to multiple Twins questions, though. I think he's an absolute star that I'd start 162 games, including a bunch at catcher.

Like every other prospect Basallo also has questions too. I would be ok with a Ryan for Basallo plus something deal (maybe Michael Forret). The Orioles are not going anywhere until they get pitching similarly to the Twins needing offense. Dalton Rushing gets mentioned plenty because he is blocked by Will Smith. The Dodgers want top players when they acquire MLB players. I'm not sure whether they are looking for starters or relievers. LAD does have a pile of starters who may be available. I would target Emmet Sheehan and River Ryan along with Rushing. Of course this increases the return from Minnesota. The main issue is the Twins reluctance to move players. At the close of last year when Wallner was going gangbusters I wondered whether Pittsburgh would exchange Bubba Chandler for Wallner. Now I wonder if Wallner could return Jared Jones. Bottom line is to increase speed, defense, and offense.

[chpettit19]

21 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Like every other prospect Basallo also has questions too. I would be ok with a Ryan for Basallo plus something deal (maybe Michael Forret). The Orioles are not going anywhere until they get pitching similarly to the Twins needing offense. Dalton Rushing gets mentioned plenty because he is blocked by Will Smith. The Dodgers want top players when they acquire MLB players. I'm not sure whether they are looking for starters or relievers. LAD does have a pile of starters who may be available. I would target Emmet Sheehan and River Ryan along with Rushing. Of course this increases the return from Minnesota. The main issue is the Twins reluctance to move players. At the close of last year when Wallner was going gangbusters I wondered whether Pittsburgh would exchange Bubba Chandler for Wallner. Now I wonder if Wallner could return Jared Jones. Bottom line is to increase speed, defense, and offense.

Oh, for sure. Every prospect has questions until about midway through year 3 and then I'm pretty comfortable calling them established. It's all a guessing game and playing the odds. I just like his odds better than most other prospect's odds. 

I don't do "blocked." No such thing as "blocked." Mookie Betts wasn't "blocked" by Dustin Pedroia and Xander Bogaerts. Jackson Merrill wasn't "blocked" by Manny Machado, Xander Bogaerts (man, that got "blocks" a lot of studs), Ha-Seong Kim, Jake Cronenworth, and Fernando Tatis Jr. Who in turn wasn't blocking the Padres from bringing in Bogaerts. Jordan Walker wasn't "blocked" by Nolan Arenado. Carlos Correa wasn't "blocked" from signing with the Mets by Francisco Lindor. Alex Rodriguez wasn't "blocked" by Jeter when he joined the Yanks. Samuel Basallo isn't "blocked" by Adley Rustchman. Dalton Rushing isn't "blocked" by Will Smith. Harry Ford isn't "blocked" by Cal Raleigh. Guys move positions. As much as it makes heads explode around here, it's how things work. Nobody is ever blocked. But I understand that names get mentioned because some fans believe that players get blocked. 

Agreed. The Twins reluctance to move players in a shifting of the roster is what's holding things back. It's a challenge, and not a simple maneuver to pull off, but one that can be done. There are moves to be made and ways to better balance the roster. Maybe it isn't reluctance, maybe it's a lack of ability to make the moves happen. I don't know. Either way, they aren't doing it and their roster has become too one sided. But the Orioles and Mariners show it isn't as easy as we sometimes make it seem on here. The Twins aren't the only team struggling with this. I don't want to make it sound like I think it's a simple task. But it being challenging doesn't change the results at the end of the day. They've had long enough to establish their team and the results are all that matter now. Challenging or not. Put out better results or they need to get somebody else in there who can.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I hear your argument; I just don't agree but I think our differences are ones of degree. We may have different thoughts on the team's timeline. While I don't think the Twins have enough to contend this year, I do think they may in 2026 and 2027. I think the pitching side is good enough as is if everyone stays healthy, recognizing that the chances of complete pitching health is essentially zero, I think they're basically one starter and two relievers away from both having enough pitching to truly contend and being able to withstand a "normal" amount of injuries (even the Dodgers can't withstand a true glut of injuries as we're finding out). I think it's very possible that those pitchers are in the system now with Morris, Ohl, Lewis, and the rapidly improving Raya at AAA, and Paredes, Klein, CJ Culpepper, and Prielipp in AA. I'm against taking away from the area of the team where we might be good enough to contend next year. 

I do agree that the lineup isn't good enough. The 3 former players who broadcasted the Cubs games were right; this lineup isn't good enough unless Buxton. Correa, Lewis, and Wallner are all going strong and I would add that at least one of Larnach, Lee, and Keaschall have to also be an above-average hitter before we have barely enough. It's really 2 of the latter and I would add Castro IF he's staying beyond 2025 (I don't think he is). . My approach isn't to trade pitching now at the deadline to get bats, I would be to take the rest of this season to find out what we really have. So I would trade Castro and Bader unless you are/think you can re-sign them; they have Fangraphs 35+ to 45 type talent value coming back. I would trade Paddack; he may have some value if you attach a lottery ticket A ball guy with upside. I would give away France for a lottery ticket. No one will give you anything for Clemens so he's either a DFA or the 26th man. Strangely, I think we have to keep Vasquez because we don't have anyone else unless you believe in Cardenas and he does have some defensive/handling pitching staff value.  

How do we find out what we have? Play some guys at the MLB level. Keaschall plays every day when he comes back. Wallner plays against LH pitching (I think the ship has sailed on Larnach being able to hit LH pitching). Lee plays 5 days a week. Call up Julien and give him some run. Remember, Julien actually had an .840 OPS in 2023 before falling off the table in 2024. He's hitting in AAA so either trade him or give him a one last shot at 1B, maybe in a platoon/time share with Sabato. Emma and Martin come up to be the 4th and 5th OFs if you trade Castro and Bader and they actually play 3-4 days a week, more if (when) we fall out of the race. Are Jenkins and/or K Culpepper ready for a cup of coffee? Maybe so. How about giving Prielipp, Ohl, or Paredes a shot in the bullpen?  

Windows of contention in sports are fickle. I actually think the Twins could be in one in 2026 and 2027, but not if they trade Lopez or Ryan. Use the rest of this year to see if we can augment the roster internally and backfill with prospects from trading vets on expiring contracts. Keep the pitching. Then make some decisions in the offseason. New ownership may pony up for Ryan in the offseason. After all, a boy can dream . . .

 

Except they are stuck with Lewis and CC whether they hit or not. It's all on those two. Buxton isn't going anywhere. One of Larnach and Wallner is here next year, maybe both. Jeffers is your part time catcher. You're left with one corner OF spot, first where they refuse to move anyone, and second, where we hope Lee or Keaschell stick. 

I generally agree that they need to be more aggressive and let rookies play, but nothing is fixed unless those two hit or are gone. 

How does Lee play five days a week? I wish they'd move on from France, but they didn't move Larnach or Wallner or Julien to first. Will they promote Sabato? I'm guessing no, they'll stick with the bad veteran like they always do. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Except they are stuck with Lewis and CC whether they hit or not. It's all on those two. Buxton isn't going anywhere. One of Larnach and Wallner is here next year, maybe both. Jeffers is your part time catcher. You're left with one corner OF spot, first where they refuse to move anyone, and second, where we hope Lee or Keaschell stick. 

I generally agree that they need to be more aggressive and let rookies play, but nothing is fixed unless those two hit or are gone. 

How does Lee play five days a week? I wish they'd move on from France, but they didn't move Larnach or Wallner or Julien to first. Will they promote Sabato? I'm guessing no, they'll stick with the bad veteran like they always do. 

You're right that a lot depends on Lewis and CC and that the unwillingness to move France off of an every day role at 1B is bizarre. I am encouraged that Lewis is now hitting again and he's going to play every day unless he gets hurt or falls off the table at the plate. I'm hoping that the idea is to move France once Keaschall is ready to play.  

Here's how you get the younger guys some playing time assuming one or all of Castro, Bader and Paddack are traded. Most importantly, France is either traded, benched, or released and Keaschall plays 1B for the rest of the year at least 4 days a week unless he craters at the plate. he did play some 1B in AA ball. If we trade Castro and trade or release France, Julien also comes up and plays a part time 1B, part time DH, occasional 2B role. Lee plays 2B most days, with Lewis at 3B and CC at SS. Clemens is a back up 2B/1B unless replaced by Sabato, Eeles or Prato, the latter only because they can play SS or 3B and I'm not sure Keaschall is recovered from the TJ surgery enough to be a fill-in on the left side of the infield. Lee plays 3B or SS when CC or Lewis sit or DH. So effectively Keaschall for France and Julien for Castro with the assumed return for Castro being a solid prospect not on the 40 man. 

In the OF, there is no real room for more than one unless Bader is traded and you trade him unless he is re-signed or will be in the offseason. Regardless of whether he stays, demote Kiersey for Martin. Bader is the backup CF so we don't need Kiersey's glove and Martin at least has a chance at the plate where Kiersey has none, almost as much speed, and can play 2B in a pinch. If Bader goes, call up Emma and play him 3-4 days a week, 1-2 in CF to spell Buxton, and 1-2 in RF when Wallner is the DH. Wallner is otherwise the regular RF. Larnach plays LF in a platoon with Martin. Yes that does hurt the OF defense so I hope Bader is re-signed but don't keep him and watch him walk for nothing at year end. Larnach sits against most LH pitching but Wallner plays. So essentially Martin for Kiersey and Emma for Bader.  Why not Emma for Kiersey? I wouldn't bring up Emma until there's a path to play him at least 3-4 days a week. I'm less worried about Martin getting regular playing time since he's a RH hitter and not as good a prospect.   

In the bullpen, Ohl for Adams, and Funderburk for Misiewicz. For the rotation, Morris and Raya stay in AAA for the rest of the year unless injury requires another starter after Matthews and Lopez are back. 

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

You're right that a lot depends on Lewis and CC and that the unwillingness to move France off of an every day role at 1B is bizarre. I am encouraged that Lewis is now hitting again and he's going to play every day unless he gets hurt or falls off the table at the plate. I'm hoping that the idea is to move France once Keaschall is ready to play.  

Here's how you get the younger guys some playing time assuming one or all of Castro, Bader and Paddack are traded. Most importantly, France is either traded, benched, or released and Keaschall plays 1B for the rest of the year at least 4 days a week unless he craters at the plate. he did play some 1B in AA ball. If we trade Castro and trade or release France, Julien also comes up and plays a part time 1B, part time DH, occasional 2B role. Lee plays 2B most days, with Lewis at 3B and CC at SS. Clemens is a back up 2B/1B unless replaced by Sabato, Eeles or Prato, the latter only because they can play SS or 3B and I'm not sure Keaschall is recovered from the TJ surgery enough to be a fill-in on the left side of the infield. Lee plays 3B or SS when CC or Lewis sit or DH. So effectively Keaschall for France and Julien for Castro with the assumed return for Castro being a solid prospect not on the 40 man. 

In the OF, there is no real room for more than one unless Bader is traded and you trade him unless he is re-signed or will be in the offseason. Regardless of whether he stays, demote Kiersey for Martin. Bader is the backup CF so we don't need Kiersey's glove and Martin at least has a chance at the plate where Kiersey has none, almost as much speed, and can play 2B in a pinch. If Bader goes, call up Emma and play him 3-4 days a week, 1-2 in CF to spell Buxton, and 1-2 in RF when Wallner is the DH. Wallner is otherwise the regular RF. Larnach plays LF in a platoon with Martin. Yes that does hurt the OF defense so I hope Bader is re-signed but don't keep him and watch him walk for nothing at year end. Larnach sits against most LH pitching but Wallner plays. So essentially Martin for Kiersey and Emma for Bader.  Why not Emma for Kiersey? I wouldn't bring up Emma until there's a path to play him at least 3-4 days a week. I'm less worried about Martin getting regular playing time since he's a RH hitter and not as good a prospect.   

In the bullpen, Ohl for Adams, and Funderburk for Misiewicz. For the rotation, Morris and Raya stay in AAA for the rest of the year unless injury requires another starter after Matthews and Lopez are back. 

I endorse this plan. No idea why Kiersey is still here at this point. Martin is healthy.. 

[NYCTK]

11 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I spent almost a day trying to figure out how to quote this line from this discussion and respond to it in a more appropriate discussion. 

Couldn't figure out how to do that. So... Oh Well. 

Yes... it is quite possible that they will not offer arbitration to Trevor Larnach. 

If they don't offer arb... That's pretty impressive. 

They literally waited until Trevor's last year with the club to give him AB's vs lefties. 

 

 

Because he sucks against them and he offers no secondary value. If he weren't a lousy fielder or baserunner he would have received more opportunities. That's precisely why Kepler was allowed despite only being marginally better against them. 

I don't know why you keep insisting on making the Twins offense AND defense actively worse by demanding they let their bad lefties face LHP man. Larnach isn't becoming Barry Bonds if he was allowed to fail for 500 PAs against LHP instead of merely failing for 250. 

And your constant excuses for his failures are so exhausting. The responsibility eventually falls on the player. 250 plate appearances, a near half seasons worth, and he's proven to be unplayable. How much more rope is he supposed to give him until we can finally say, oh, maybe it isn't such a bad idea to get a defensive upgrade against LHP that may or may not even hit better than him? 

 

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Because he sucks against them and he offers no secondary value. If he weren't a lousy fielder or baserunner he would have received more opportunities. That's precisely why Kepler was allowed despite only being marginally better against them. 

I don't know why you keep insisting on making the Twins offense AND defense actively worse by demanding they let their bad lefties face LHP man. Larnach isn't becoming Barry Bonds if he was allowed to fail for 500 PAs against LHP instead of merely failing for 250. 

And your constant excuses for his failures are so exhausting. The responsibility eventually falls on the player. 250 plate appearances, a near half seasons worth, and he's proven to be unplayable. How much more rope is he supposed to give him until we can finally say, oh, maybe it isn't such a bad idea to get a defensive upgrade against LHP that may or may not even hit better than him? 

 

Are you talking about Larnach or Wallner? How do you tell the difference?

[DJL44]

22 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

due to that player's youthful ignorance (Wander Franco). 

He's a sex offender. I did some dumb stuff when I was younger, but I managed to grow up without becoming a sex offender.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

He's a sex offender. I did some dumb stuff when I was younger, but I managed to grow up without becoming a sex offender.

Both of us. Apparently that separates us from a POTUS, some Supreme Court folk, some of our legislators, and some of our leading business people. What a world.

I apologize for my clumsy wording. My point was that Tampa Bay lost some key players and find their way.

[Major League Ready]

On 7/11/2025 at 7:43 AM, chpettit19 said:

I can understand this argument, but the same argument can be made about Jax and Duran closing out games. And Ober providing them with a 3rd playoff starter. Now we've taken out all their truly valuable trade chips and I just don't see a way to truly impact change on the position player side. And, in my opinion, without real change on the position player side you're not competing in 2026 or 2027 anyways and then all you've done is hold onto these guys and get 5 comp picks in return and this org has doomed itself.

I'm positive Cleveland fans didn't want to see Francisco Lindor traded. Or Corey Kluber. Tampa fans thought there was no way they could compete without Blake Snell. And then Tyler Glasnow. Milwaukee fans were convinced they were doomed without Corbin Burnes, especially with Brandon Woodruff injured. I get the fear, I really do. I just think you're essentially saying "they've failed to develop any real position player talent so far, but they're going to make it happen in the next 2 years." Unless you see another way to get that side of the team to improve. Which I'm open to, but haven't seen anyone even attempt to suggest how to do it.

I reject the idea that trading a singular starting pitcher means it has to be a full rebuild. And if it does actually mean that then I'd argue this team needs a full rebuild because it's 1 injury away from each of the next 2 seasons being completely and utterly destroyed. Whether or not this front office can pull off the right trade is one question, but if you can build a package around a Dalton Rushing or Samuel Basallo type MLB ready catcher plus other pieces I don't see why trading one of these starting pitchers has to destroy this team. They have to get the trade right, and it's never fun trading your studs. But letting all these arms leave for comp picks in 2 years is a far worse outcome than trading one or 2 for way more than comp picks.

But the Twins have to be able to develop talent or none of anything works. Festa, Zebby, and SWR have to be able to back fill to some extent. Is Festa figuring it out? If he is, trading Ryan, Lopez, or Ober now or in the offseason is the right move to compete in 2026 and 2027, in my opinion.

 

I have never given a "love" on a post until this one.  Often, statements like "you just don't trade X, Y or Z are thrown around as if it's undisputable with no supporting evidence.  If fans actually looked back on how successful teams were built and look at actually examples as you have here, history will show many  instances where trading away an established player was key to accumulating the talent need to contend with modest revenue.   The only small/medium market WS winner in recent memory would not have happened with trading away Grienke for Cane and Escobar.   How have Tampa, Cleveland and Milwaukee have been by far the most successful teams in the bottom half of revenue?  Because these teams are not afraid to rely on the practices you mention.  It won't always work but it's a lot more likely to produce a true contender than hoping all of your above average players perform at their absolute peak.

[jorgenswest]

On Keirsey and apologies for taking this thread further away from Joe Ryan.

They needed Keirsey's glove and arm yesterday. They needed it Wednesday. He made the running catch in the line out look routine though Swanson’s ball had a .350 xBA. Does Martin make that throw? Is he in the right position to make it? Does he take the correct route on Wednesday? Larnach and Wallner are part of the reason balls like that have a .350 xBA. Bad first steps and poor routes make catchable balls look out of reach.

We know exactly why Keirsey is here. He does two things that are lacking. He plays a strong outfield on the corners. He can run better than most on the team. Is it worth a spot on the roster? That is debatable.

Back to trading Joe. It is hard to know with the uncertainty of the ownership. Are new owners going to spend resources to try to win in their first few years? In that case I would keep their playoff caliber players in Ryan and Duran. I think I would at least keep them both through this season in hopes for new ownership and possibly new leadership. Give that team a chance to build these Twins. It is a lot easier to trade a Joe Ryan or Jhoan Duran than it is to acquire them.

[tony&rodney]

On 7/11/2025 at 12:02 PM, chpettit19 said:

I don't do "blocked." No such thing as "blocked." Mookie Betts wasn't "blocked" by Dustin Pedroia and Xander Bogaerts. Jackson Merrill wasn't "blocked" by Manny Machado, Xander Bogaerts (man, that got "blocks" a lot of studs), Ha-Seong Kim, Jake Cronenworth, and Fernando Tatis Jr. Who in turn wasn't blocking the Padres from bringing in Bogaerts. Jordan Walker wasn't "blocked" by Nolan Arenado. Carlos Correa wasn't "blocked" from signing with the Mets by Francisco Lindor. Alex Rodriguez wasn't "blocked" by Jeter when he joined the Yanks. Samuel Basallo isn't "blocked" by Adley Rustchman. Dalton Rushing isn't "blocked" by Will Smith. Harry Ford isn't "blocked" by Cal Raleigh. Guys move positions. As much as it makes heads explode around here, it's how things work. Nobody is ever blocked. But I understand that names get mentioned because some fans believe that players get blocked. 

I get your argument about blocked. The Dodgers have tried Rushing in the outfield and will use him there at times but Rushing will have a hard time becoming a valuable piece on a team as an outfielder. I should have framed that better. Rushing is a player the Dodgers are willing to move given their signing of Smith and ability to pick up players as needed. I'm not convinced Rushing is who the Twins need because I was pushing for Jeferson Quero, Kyle Teel, Harry Ford, and Basallo last November. Rushing may be the guy who is most available now, which is total speculation. In any event, I continue to think the Twins absolutely need to upgrade their defense, speed, and hitting. I like the pitching.

[harmony55]

On 7/11/2025 at 8:50 AM, chpettit19 said:

I don't disagree with that plan. I think we've actually discussed it before. It's why I wouldn't be in any rush to trade Ryan now. That's what I'd do with the rest of 2025, too. And 2026 and 2027 are the target window I'm looking at, too. Or I'd be pushing for a full rebuild and I'd be all over these boards saying they should blow the whole thing up and trade everybody. Part of my 2026 and 2027 plan includes trading one of the arms, though. 

I'm all for seeing what they have in the system. Gaining data and giving experience. But I think it'd be naive and too much wishful thinking to go into 2026 with only guys currently in the org and more low cost, 1-year vets on the position player side. Seattle has been showing us for years what happens when you have all pitching and no offense. It doesn't work.

The last time the Seattle Mariners posted an OPS+ below 104 was 2021. The Mariners posted a higher OPS+ than ERA+ in 2022 and 2023 before posting a 104 OPS+ and 106 ERA+ last year.

This year Seattle is second in the American League with a team OPS+ of 117 (closing in on the Yankees' league-leading 119) while the team ERA+ lags in 12th place at 95.

[chpettit19]

8 hours ago, harmony55 said:

The last time the Seattle Mariners posted an OPS+ below 104 was 2021. The Mariners posted a higher OPS+ than ERA+ in 2022 and 2023 before posting a 104 OPS+ and 106 ERA+ last year.

This year Seattle is second in the American League with a team OPS+ of 117 (closing in on the Yankees' league-leading 119) while the team ERA+ lags in 12th place at 95.

That's fun. In 2024, Seattle was 21st in runs scored, 1st in runs allowed. In 2023, Seattle was 12th in runs scored, 4th in runs allowed. In 2022, Seattle was 18th in runs scored, 7th in runs allowed. In 2021, Seattle was 23rd in runs scored, 14th in runs allowed.

1 above average run scoring team in there. 3 top 10 run preventing team, with 2 being top 5 Tied for the fewest runs allowed in all of baseball last year and won 3 more games than the Twins because they couldn't score runs.

All you're doing is showing that OPS+ and ERA+ can't be compared and ERA+ doesn't shift drastically like OPS+ (logical since ERAs don't have as big of variances).

And, yeah, they're been hitting better this year because they've put concerted effort into improving their offense because it's been costing them. And their rotation has been hurt so pitching has been worse. Makes sense. 

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not on board with trading Ryan right now.  (I might be with Ober or Lopez if they were healthy, but that is not the case)  I am, however, on board with dealing one of the relievers.  (In addition to Stewart and Columbe)  

Paddock, Duran, Stewart, Columbe, Castro, and Bader is going to net you quite an array of young talent.  This team NEEDS cheap, young, controllable talent.  Particularly on the position player side.  (Others are making this point well, kudos to them)

Let's take the Brewers as an example: How did the Brewers get their all-star catcher?  In part by trading Josh Hader.  (Also, look at the haul Sean Murphy got for the A's as part of that)  Their current SS was from trading Corbin Burnes.  Their current starting 3B was from trading reliever Devin Williams.  Ace Freddy Peralta?  Traded for by dumping Adam Lind.  Priester and Patrick in their rotation?  Trades.  (Not dumps, just savvy moves)  Closer Trevor Megill....well we know all about that one don't we?  Nick Mears and Grant Anderson?  Savvy trades.  

This board is so scared to move on from players....but trading is the lifeblood of a lower revenue baseball team.  Selling when you need to sell, exchanging depth for need.  These simply HAVE to happen.  Yeah, you have to develop too, but good teams know when to move assets to build their team.

I said it in the other thread to Nick....doing nothing is the WORST thing an organization like the Twins could do.  I'd rather they swing and miss at trades than spin their wheels.