Could Ryan Jeffers Be Balm for San Diego Padres' Catching Woes?

[S Bart]

Yeah...right...they should trade Jeffers and renew the soon to be 35 year old Vasquez...with a raise...

[Road trip]

3 hours ago, farmerguychris said:

To me - this would be a very disappointing outcome.  If we are actually considering resigning Vazquez instead of promoting from within, we need to trade for someone they are comfortable with at the major league level.  Vazquez is just above pitcher level when trying to get a hit - at this point in his career.

 

For kicks, I actually looked this up.  His OPS+ this year is 39.  Jim Kaat, a pretty good hitting pitcher, had a career OPS+ of 37 😐  It takes some really elite defense to make up for a bat that bad.

As for the article, I guess I'm open to trading Jeffers for the right return.  Jeffers is good, but not great, and soon to be expensive (Boras).  The real problem as noted by many is that there is no obvious replacement for next year, which would necessitate some serious off-season shopping.  This season I have largely given up on... 

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, mickster said:

I am not sure Vazquez if out of the picture as of yet.   He has disappointed with the bat, but defensively and handling a pitching staff has been good.   He won't command a lot on the open market and I would not mind a two year contract extension for him.

He's the worst hitter in baseball. 301st of 303 with 100 at bats. No defense makes up for that. 

[old nurse]

Did the players traded by San Diego amount to a cornerstone player? Nope. Quality over quantity. The Nola trade is why you don’t trade for bulk. 

[Major League Ready]

5 hours ago, mickster said:

I am not sure Vazquez if out of the picture as of yet.   He has disappointed with the bat, but defensively and handling a pitching staff has been good.   He won't command a lot on the open market and I would not mind a two year contract extension for him.

He is a replacement level player.  Why would you want to Twins to extend this level of futility one year much less two?  They need to aim higher.

[RpR]

14 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

He is a replacement level player.  Why would you want to Twins to extend this level of futility one year much less two?  They need to aim higher.

Because of the glove futility of any one else in the Twins system, unless run-at-will is the new norm, especially as  Jeffers, whose glove was very good a month ago, is now about as good as Vazquez bat.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

6 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Feel like it's pretty self explanatory. 

Thank you. Your reply above has helped me understand. 

[Major League Ready]

14 minutes ago, RpR said:

Because of the glove futility of any one else in the Twins system, unless run-at-will is the new norm, especially as  Jeffers, whose glove was very good a month ago, is now about as good as Vazquez bat.

Value is determined by the combination of offensive and defensive value.  Vasquez provides some positive value defensively, but that value is completely negated by his offensive futility.   If they don't believe they have a player with a net value greater than Vasquez, they need to go to the FA market.  Nobody said the player would have to come from within and they could get a better player for the amount allocated to Vasquez.

BTW .... Cardenas is a good defender that at least has the potential to be a lot better offensively than Vasquez.

[RpR]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Value is determined by the combination of offensive and defensive value.  Vasquez provides some positive value defensively, but that value is completely negated by his offensive futility.   If they don't believe they have a player with a net value greater than Vasquez, they need to go to the FA market.  Nobody said the player would have to come from within and they could get a better player for the amount allocated to Vasquez.

BTW .... Cardenas is a good defender that at least has the potential to be a lot better offensively than Vasquez.

What is potential in simple words?

 

: existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality. potential benefits. 2. : expressing possibility. specifically : of, relating to, or constituting a verb phrase expressing possibility, liberty, or power by the use of an auxiliary with the infinitive of the verb (as in "it may rain")

[Vanimal46]

Jeffers hasn’t solved the Twins’ own catching woes. Why would he solve that in San Diego?

Team catching sorted by fWAR - Twins 27th rank, San Diego 29

Team catching sorted by batting average - San Diego 26th rank, Twins 27

Team catching sorted by WRC+ - Twins  25th ranked, San Diego 27

[Vanimal46]

37 minutes ago, RpR said:

Because of the glove futility of any one else in the Twins system, unless run-at-will is the new norm, especially as  Jeffers, whose glove was very good a month ago, is now about as good as Vazquez bat.

Maybe your metrics aren’t very good if the results vary wildly from month to month 

[Mike Sixel]

55 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

He is a replacement level player.  Why would you want to Twins to extend this level of futility one year much less two?  They need to aim higher.

He's worse than that. Much. 

[RpR]

8 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Maybe your metrics aren’t very good if the results vary wildly from month to month 

LOL, gee the Twins were once well over .500, but month to month mean little, LOL.

Jeffers on top, Vazquez on the bottom 

A month ago, Vazquez was barely in the twenties and Jeffers was over thirty percent caught stealing, 

Run at will Jeffers is back, and now he air mails it to the outfield too often, of course his .200 BA in the last 7 games is much better than the .194 in the last 30 games.

[Vanimal46]

29 minutes ago, RpR said:

LOL, gee the Twins were once well over .500, but month to month mean little, LOL.

Jeffers on top, Vazquez on the bottom 

A month ago, Vazquez was barely in the twenties and Jeffers was over thirty percent caught stealing, 

Run at will Jeffers is back, and now he air mails it to the outfield too often, of course his .200 BA in the last 7 games is much better than the .194 in the last 30 games.

I fully understand that’s your gospel. I couldn’t care less about any of the drivel you just screen shot. After all this time baseball still can’t measure defensive value better than the old eye test. 

[RpR]

32 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I fully understand that’s your gospel. I couldn’t care less about any of the drivel you just screen shot. After all this time baseball still can’t measure defensive value better than the old eye test. 

Blind leading the blind. LOL

[arby58]

3 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Jeffers hasn’t solved the Twins’ own catching woes. Why would he solve that in San Diego?

Team catching sorted by fWAR - Twins 27th rank, San Diego 29

Team catching sorted by batting average - San Diego 26th rank, Twins 27

Team catching sorted by WRC+ - Twins  25th ranked, San Diego 27

Maybe take Vazquez out and resort? He is the ultimate anchor offensively.

[Vanimal46]

29 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Maybe take Vazquez out and resort? He is the ultimate anchor offensively.

Individually, Jeffers is tied for 39th in fWAR for all catchers this year at 0.4

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Individually, Jeffers is tied for 39th in fWAR for all catchers this year at 0.4

Partly due to them splitting time, he doesn't even have 100 at bats as a catcher and that's a counting stat. But yes, he's not hitting great as a catcher this year. Still, more than twice as good as Vazquez.... Last year he was the 8th best hitting catcher. Sixth best in 2023. So anyone trading for him would be assuming he regresses to his career norms. 

[arby58]

24 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Individually, Jeffers is tied for 39th in fWAR for all catchers this year at 0.4

That's better than collectively, with Vazquez, right? Why would you group he and Vazquez unless you were deflating his worth?

[jorgenswest]

If they called offering Ethan Salas, Kash Mayfield and Luis Campusano I would listen.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

If they called offering Ethan Salas, Kash Mayfield and Luis Campusano I would listen.

Tempting, but it makes competing the next two years tough. 

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, RpR said:

What is potential in simple words?

 

: existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality. potential benefits. 2. : expressing possibility. specifically : of, relating to, or constituting a verb phrase expressing possibility, liberty, or power by the use of an auxiliary with the infinitive of the verb (as in "it may rain")

Upside is a good thing in baseball and a commonly applied concept in roster development.  When choosing between players with similar floors, the player with more upside is the wise choice.  Your premise of keeping a replacement level player because he is good defensively makes absolutely no sense.  You seem to have a hard time with the concept that a player's value is determined by both offense and defense.  

[Trov]

If they do they are waiving the white flag on this season. It would take some good pieces to get it done.  With no clear replacement in our system right now, or next year making us have to dive into the FA or trade market ourselves.  

If you can get some pitching options that are clear higher upsides than what we have great, but just not sure there is a ton out there. 

[Otaknam]

Trading Jeffers with no apparent major league ready replacement makes no sense. 

[Riverbrian]

Yes: Catchers are overpays... If the Padres are desperate enough to need to fill the catching position they will need to over pay for it. Therefore... Yes... the consideration of trading Jeffers should be considered because you are taking advantage of the market conditions. 

No: The Twins have failed to take advantage of this market by not producing catching from their system. It is to the point that they don't have a reasonable replacement for Vazquez when he leaves after this season and therefore also don't have a reasonable replacement for Jeffers when he leaves the year after that.  

Bottom Line: You take advantage of the catching market conditions by trading Jeffers which then necessitates an immediate being taken advantage of... with those same market conditions acquiring his replacement plus the need to replace Vazquez.

This is called treading water and the Twins have been treading water for too long. 

Keep Jeffers... the organization has left themselves no choice. Sleep in the bed that they made.   

 

[RpR]

7 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Upside is a good thing in baseball and a commonly applied concept in roster development.  When choosing between players with similar floors, the player with more upside is the wise choice.  Your premise of keeping a replacement level player because he is good defensively makes absolutely no sense.  You seem to have a hard time with the concept that a player's value is determined by both offense and defense.  

Your value is not my value.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

Your value is not my value.

It would be far more accurate to say your value is not how the league values.  Mike Traut is a far better defender than Vasquez but he would make 1/10 of what he does if he hit like Vasquez.  

[Mike Sixel]

Imagine how bad your team would be if they all hit like Vazquez. Would it even win sixty games?

[Major League Ready]

27 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Imagine how bad your team would be if they all hit like Vazquez. Would it even win sixty games?

Imagine if you had to watch 60 games played by a team where every player hit like Vasquez. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Imagine if you had to watch 60 games played by a team where every player hit like Vasquez. 

Not many Ks.