How Can I Watch the Twins Today? (And Seven Other Questions about the Twins-Bally-Comcast Clustermuck)

[Jocko87]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

They could've done the MLB.tv package like the Diamondbacks. It would've cost them money. But it was an option. I don't think there's any debating that. They had at least 2 options. They chose this one.

I was an advocate for them bringing everything in house but we really don't know why some thing are options and others are not.  It could be as simple as not having the money to spend.  If I don't have the money, I don't have an option. But we don't know.

[twinsguy03]

4 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

I am a Midco subscriber in the SE MN and just woke up with the same message on my Bally channel

I was curious about that since Comcast owns a large share of Midco.

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Dollar for dollar, of course the bloated cable contract is going to be more than what they would have made primarily streaming. But there is no more growth to be had with the old model.

People like me in their 30s and 40s aren’t going to go back to cable, ever. I wouldn’t have Comcast today if it wasn’t included in my association fees. The only time I use it is for Bally Sports and the occasional National TV NBA/NHL playoff game. 

If MLB can’t figure out how to navigate past the old model, the league is doomed. 

Yeah, I'll bet the old wealthy white dudes who knew how to profit their businesses via railroad services gnashed their teeth and shook their fists at Henry Ford too.

I in no way think Twins leadership is capable of evolving on their own. They're going to have to pick the right industry leaders to mimic and hope they picked correctly.

 

[Jocko87]

38 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Then major league baseball is in serious trouble. Not just the Twins. The entire sport. If they can't grow their fanbase through streaming the sport is going to die with the older generations.

This is basically the problem. I haven't looked recently but league wide payroll was trending to be down overall. Lotta people been sounding an alarm.

[Steve Lein]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

At the heart of this issue lies ?50? percent of TD readers.

Those of you who are "cable cutters" torpedoed the sports-on-cable model. You did so knowingly, and deliberately, so it's a little hypocritical to be up in arms now when the torpedoed model sinks. 

 

We're not mad at torpedoing the "sports-on-cable model," that was always the plan. The inability of these networks and cable companies to accept this fact and adapt, is the reason we are here now and can't watch. For some inexplicable reason, they thought they would be able to survive when they were already already six-feet under and buried. Now the oxygen is finally running out and they're not The Bride from Kill Bill.

Currently, those streaming options are giving viewers a ton more bang for their buck. On cable, I can get 300+ channels,..Nobody cares. Because there are like 2 channels I would ever watch, the main one being BSN when a game is being played. I'd never have that channel on for any other reason, so why pay for all the fluff? These sports networks are also the ones that make your cable package price so high. They are probably half the cost of your subscription, even though there are 295 other channels besides them.

[August J Gloop]

15 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Of course it is. Currently $30/mo. Or $20/mo for Dbacks only.

You're still not describing PPV. 

 

13 minutes ago, Loosey said:

So a large contingent of the Fanbase will be unable to watch the games on TV (Comcast).  Were the Twins unaware that Comcast and Bally's agreement was up less than a month into their season?  Did they just assume all was well and that everyone would happily re-up?

Ownership of this team is messing up on multiple levels.  This isn't even a baseball operations issue, this is something that supposedly very smart, savvy, rich business people should know how to navigate.  If they were messing up this much on any  of their other business entities the boards would be going crazy.  

And to make matters worse, this does in fact trickle down into the baseball operations by not allowing them to spend as they should be able to in order to be competitive.  

They knew. They just chose to believe (or want us to think they believed) that Bally's had this in hand. I think what comes up every time a stunningly bad business deal has badness get out is this idea that business people are inherently smart and everyone else is so shocked that they didn't see it coming. Maybe by now we can start to accept that business people aren't any smarter than any other people. 

This was a crap deal put on the fans by The Pohlads(tm). They had a number that had to be reached in the broadcast line of the budget. They don't care how it impacts any individual fan as long as the final balance is printed in black. YMMV weather or not this a good way to run an MLB franchise. 

[USAFChief]

9 minutes ago, Steve Lein said:

We're not mad at torpedoing the "sports-on-cable model," that was always the plan. The inability of these networks and cable companies to accept this fact and adapt, is the reason we are here now and can't watch. For some inexplicable reason, they thought they would be able to survive when they were already already six-feet under and buried. Now the oxygen is finally running out and they're not The Bride from Kill Bill.

Currently, those streaming options are giving viewers a ton more bang for their buck. On cable, I can get 300+ channels,..Nobody cares. Because there are like 2 channels I would ever watch, the main one being BSN when a game is being played. I'd never have that channel on for any other reason, so why pay for all the fluff? These sports networks are also the ones that make your cable package price so high. They are probably half the cost of your subscription, even though there are 295 other channels besides them.

Wait...what? "You're" (the generic you) not mad about not being able to watch the Twins??

 

You intended to torpedo the model. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Riverbrian]

45 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Then major league baseball is in serious trouble. Not just the Twins. The entire sport. If they can't grow their fanbase through streaming the sport is going to die with the older generations.

Yep

All you have to do is look at the demographics and the numbers produce no other conclusion. 

Look at cable demographics and compare them to baseball demographics. They mirror each other. 

I've been sounding this alarm on Twinsdaily for quite some time now. But... It doesn't get very far because Twinsdaily demographics probably mirror baseball demographics. So... I'm basically talking with satisfied customers and there just isn't enough of us and we will be gone down the road.

Baseball has to be aware of the numbers and talking about changes to the game to be more palatable to the demo's they are not reaching. Pace of play for example all the while... access to the product is the most important issue to solve and they can't seem to do that... because right now... it pays less.  

   

 

[USAFChief]

2 minutes ago, August J Gloop said:

You're still not describing PPV. 

Semantics.

"Paying for a set time frame for a single product."

Whether that's 3 hours of a MMA event or 30 days of Twins baseball is irrelevant. 

 

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Wait...what? "You're" (the generic you) not mad about not being able to watch the Twins??

You do understand you're complaining about no longer having a place to stable your horse because all of your neighbors bought automobiles right?

We're asking for the cobblestones to be paved so we can all use this new technology, we have no interest in mounting a saddle again. The new option is and will be better once the infrastructure is in place, which would have happened years ago had the bigwigs not been all consumed by the profits dangled by those selling horses.

[DocBauer]

I live in Nebraska so I'm not in a blackout area, other than Royals games where I'm forced to the radio, or the Bally channel on cable that carries said games. So I'm lucky in that regard. But I do feel pain for those that are in the mess of blackout area and now Bally/Comcast FUBAR situation. 

I also work for a telecommunications company. Cable is dying quickly. For perspective reasons, I'd like to cover a few things. Why do cable companies "force" you to car4y so many channels? Part of it is federal regulations that require a certain number of "slots" for educational and local channels dependent on how many total channels said cable company offers. In other words, the more channels offered means even more channels must be offered. Additionally, there's about 5 HUGE parent companies that own all of the various channels available to us all on a trickle down affect. Example: Disney doesn't just own Disney, they own ABC and ESPN. Those parent companies want/need their channels to have viewers so they are sold to cable companies in packages very often.

Cable TV costs more, overall, than a streaming service. That's the primary reason it's dying. Every couple of years, by law/regulation, a cable company must renegotiate deals/contracts with providers. Additionally, streaming services...while providing the SAME CONTENT...are regulated and taxed differently than cable companies and are not subject to certain restrictions as to blackouts or regional content. Further, when a streaming service carries local channels, they do so with an "umbrella" deal from the PARENT corporation that sets a standard fee for the COUNTRY and individual local stations are forced to accept these fees rather than negotiate directly with the local cable companies, usually for more money. 

Often times, when you look at a cable TV package of channels and compare it to a streaming service, the actual cost of channel per dollar is less, or equivalent, on cable to said streaming service. Not always, but ofter. 

Cable TV, previously, offered a more stable floor of known subscribers for someone like Diamond/Bally to make $M offers to sports teams based on subscribers and varying sports fees and rates. BUT, many people now want a different option with fewer channels and a lower monthly rate because it fits their viewing needs and habits better. Nothing wrong with that! I watch far less than half of the channels my company provides me, though it's nice to have them available. 

Streaming IS where ALL CONTENT is going. Many smaller companies across the country are already dropping TV service because it's expensive to provide with a very small profit margin. (Really, cable companies don't make near what you think they do by TV). Some larger companies are begining to offer smaller, less expensive packages for customers to stream, but without sports as they are the most expensive channels/content to supply.

The Twins ARE going to be streaming, and probably next year. Some teams are already, and many more will be very soon as well. But it's going to get worse before it gets better gang. $19.99 a month to watch the Twins would need tens of thousands of households before they could come close to meeting the $45M plus mark of incoming cash flow they've had previously. And since there are teams, Yankees for example, that control their $/TV destiny, with a larger population base as well, the payroll instability in MLB is only going to get worse before it gets better.

In the long run, more options for the consumer...though streaming services continue to raise rates as well...and a larger footprint to grow a fan base is good, and better for everyone. In the short term, it's going to be a mess.

While not directly affected by these events, on the one hand, I can see the Twins Ownership accepting the $ for the one year deal presented to them at the 11th hour. But on the other hand, since payroll was already being reduced, I wish the owners of my favorite ML team had been forward thinking enough to begin embracing the future, and opportunities to grow their fan base and seek out new forms of revenue growth instead of a 1yr cash grab.

It's a big cluster of a mess that might take a few years of instability across the sport until the floor stabilizes. The only good news, at the moment, would be that streaming is probably coming next year for everyone.

 

 

[howeda7]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Midco is showing the same message so it isn't just a negotiation with Comcast. 

T

 

 

Midco is Comcast for this purpose (just with much better customer service). Comcast owns like 49% of Midco and they are linked for all negotiations with national networks. Anytime a network goes dark on Comcast, it goes dark on Midco too.

[Steve Lein]

14 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Wait...what? "You're" (the generic you) not mad about not being able to watch the Twins??

 

You intended to torpedo the model. Be careful what you wish for. 

I haven't watched Twins on cable for years now because I cut the cord. I knew what I was signing up for. So no, I'm not.

I have my ways to watch, and it's their fault they get nothing from me for it.

Pointed this out recently in another thread, sign up for MiLB.tv if you need your baseball fix. $30 for the whole season, and every team in existence. It's by far more valuable to me than paying $80/month for the cheapest option I can find the Twins. Which again, would be the only channel I would even watch, for probably less than 10 total hours a week. There is no justification for me to pay that price.

[whitsbrain]

I have done a quick personal reassessment, trying to find positives.  Right now, I've landed on:

• No longer having to hear Justin Morneau's ramblings.
• No longer having to hear Tim Laudner say "this Minnesota Twins baseball club" or "young man" fifty times per pre-game.

Other than that, everything is awful.

[ashbury]

5 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Dear Joe Pohlad,

You are failing. 

You have allowed your billion dollar organization to be taken hostage by outsiders for a rather low dollar figure. 

You better Liam Neeson your way into the room and quickly. 

Sincerely,

 

Riverbrian

You are correct but I think the family's installing Joe as "Executive Chair" obscures that uncle Jim Pohlad still controls things from the very top.  It's merely speculation on my part, but what I've read suggests that it's a classic case of nepotism where a relative is given operational control but with significant guardrails put in place by the elder generation.  I really believe the budget cuts were forced on Joe, who had no choice but to force them on FalVine.  I doubt Joe had final say on the current teevee decisions either.

It's not like Joe has this string of business successes to his name.  He ran a broadcast enterprise into the ground, if I recall correctly.  To whatever extent this current situation is entirely Joe's doing, it looks like "business as usual" for the young-ish man*, with the family giving him second and maybe third chances, that we'll have to suffer through if current results are any guide.

It's fine to address your open letter to Joe; he'll just refer it to his uncle anyway.

Quick, quick: look at Jim Pohlad's Wikipedia page.  While fact-checking myself a little, I noticed that some joker (not me, I swear) edited it on April 20 to say "James Pohlad (born March 10, 1953)[1] is a cheap American businessman who...".  LOL.  Wonder how much longer it will stay up.

 

* an article I looked up had him as a 40-year old in late 2022.  There's a chance he's even older than that, by now. 😀

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You are correct but I think the family's installing Joe as "Executive Chair" obscures that uncle Jim Pohlad controls things from the very top.  It's merely speculation on my part, but what I've read suggests that it's a classic case of nepotism where a relative is given operational control but with significant guardrails put in place by the elder generation.  I really believe the budget cuts were forced on Joe, who had no choice but to force them on FalVine.  I doubt Joe had final say on the current teevee decisions either.

It's not like Joe has this string of business successes to his name.  He ran a broadcast enterprise into the ground, if I recall correctly.  To whatever extent this current situation is entirely Joe's doing, it looks like "business as usual" for the young-ish man*, with the family giving him second and maybe third chances, that we'll have to suffer through if current results are any guide.

Quick, quick: look at Jim Pohlad's Wikipedia page.  While fact-checking myself a little, I noticed that some joker (not me, I swear) edited it on April 20 to say "James Pohlad (born March 10, 1953)[1] is a cheap American businessman who...".  LOL.  Wonder how much longer it will stay up.

 

* an article I looked up had him as a 40-year old in late 2022.  There's a chance he's even older than that, by now. :)

Reminds me of Curtis Carlson taking over that formerly great company.....the difference being no sports team in the US loses money long term (or, likely, at all). 

[August J Gloop]

7 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Yep

All you have to do is look at the demographics and the numbers produce no other conclusion. 

Look at cable demographics and compare them to baseball demographics. They mirror each other. 

I've been sounding this alarm on Twinsdaily for quite some time now. But... It doesn't get very far because Twinsdaily demographics probably mirror baseball demographics. So... I'm basically talking with satisfied customers and there just isn't enough of us and we will be gone down the road.

Baseball has to be aware of the numbers and talking about changes to the game to be more palatable to the demo's they are not reaching. Pace of play for example all the while... access to the product is the most important issue to solve and they can't seem to do that... because right now... it pays less.  

   

 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Reminds me of Curtis Carlson taking over that formerly great company.....the difference being no sports team in the US loses money long term (or, likely, at all). 

That's what a lot of this crap is about, trying to project an illusion of razor thin margins to keep the salary growth for talent curtailed. 

[Craig Arko]

Radio and imagination, I guess.

[Riverbrian]

18 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Midco is Comcast for this purpose (just with much better customer service). Comcast owns like 49% of Midco and they are linked for all negotiations with national networks. Anytime a network goes dark on Comcast, it goes dark on Midco too.

That is something I wasn't aware of. Thank You. 

I do know this... Since I can't watch baseball... I'll be watching Netflix instead. 😉

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You are correct but I think the family's installing Joe as "Executive Chair" obscures that uncle Jim Pohlad still controls things from the very top.  It's merely speculation on my part, but what I've read suggests that it's a classic case of nepotism where a relative is given operational control but with significant guardrails put in place by the elder generation.  I really believe the budget cuts were forced on Joe, who had no choice but to force them on FalVine.  I doubt Joe had final say on the current teevee decisions either.

 

 

* an article I looked up had him as a 40-year old in late 2022.  There's a chance he's even older than that, by now. :)

I had the opposite take, though also just speculation. Jim Pohlad had been the most free spending Pohlad owner by far, so my assumption was that the rest of the clan shooed him out and installed fiscally conservative Joe to make sure the ROI on Papa Carl's investment kept rising to expectations.

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

I had the opposite take, though also just speculation. Jim Pohlad had been the most free spending Pohlad owner by far, so my assumption was that the rest of the clan shooed him out and installed fiscally conservative Joe to make sure the ROI on Papa Carl's investment kept rising to expectations.

I don't think we can rule out regular seances with Carl himself, either.

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I don't think we can rule out regular seances with Carl himself, either.

Carl's back in control via spiritual possession? Got to agree, that is the most practical explanation for the events of this past off season. 

[Riverbrian]

20 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You are correct but I think the family's installing Joe as "Executive Chair" obscures that uncle Jim Pohlad still controls things from the very top.  It's merely speculation on my part, but what I've read suggests that it's a classic case of nepotism where a relative is given operational control but with significant guardrails put in place by the elder generation.  I really believe the budget cuts were forced on Joe, who had no choice but to force them on FalVine.  I doubt Joe had final say on the current teevee decisions either.

It's not like Joe has this string of business successes to his name.  He ran a broadcast enterprise into the ground, if I recall correctly.  To whatever extent this current situation is entirely Joe's doing, it looks like "business as usual" for the young-ish man*, with the family giving him second and maybe third chances, that we'll have to suffer through if current results are any guide.

It's fine to address your open letter to Joe; he'll just refer it to his uncle anyway.

Quick, quick: look at Jim Pohlad's Wikipedia page.  While fact-checking myself a little, I noticed that some joker (not me, I swear) edited it on April 20 to say "James Pohlad (born March 10, 1953)[1] is a cheap American businessman who...".  LOL.  Wonder how much longer it will stay up.

 

* an article I looked up had him as a 40-year old in late 2022.  There's a chance he's even older than that, by now. 😀

In the meantime...  They got that complaint box by the bathrooms at 1 Twins Way. I'm going to complain about that then.

 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

In the meantime...  They got that complaint box by the bathrooms at 1 Twins Way. I'm going to complain about that then.

 

GAWD I loved that show, and possibly had a crush on her....

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

I was an advocate for them bringing everything in house but we really don't know why some thing are options and others are not.

Yep... In-House...  Control their product. 

The have tried and failed in the past. But... of course... that failed attempt was made trying to work into the existing model that is so problematic today. 24 hour programming, negotiations with cable tv providers etc. 

[Riverbrian]

24 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Radio and imagination, I guess.

Kids today don't have attention span for imagination. 

[Riverbrian]

32 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Reminds me of Curtis Carlson taking over that formerly great company.....the difference being no sports team in the US loses money long term (or, likely, at all). 

[Craig Arko]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Kids today don't have attention span for imagination. 

Some of do; they use it for things other than baseball, of course. I have several books to finish, and some live shows to attend. This also gives impetus to finally giving xfinity the boot. That can’t be all bad.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, Craig Arko said:

Some of do; they use it for things other than baseball, of course. I have several books to finish, and some live shows to attend. This also gives impetus to finally giving xfinity the boot. That can’t be all bad.

The youngsters will change the world.

I cheated and looked at the cable numbers and the younger demos are all but gone. However... I really didn't have to look at the numbers. 

When I watch cable TV... I understand the numbers by the ads that I'm watching. Medication is paying the cable bill right now. 

I can sing the Ozempic jingle from hearing it so often and I knew the melody since Pilot released the song in 1975 and 1975 fits that cable demographic. 

I look at my sons and I tell them... It's all up to you now.

It sucks getting old. 😁 

[Riverbrian]

Right now... All I can do is wait for this thing to get settled so I can watch the Twins again. I have no idea how long I'll have to wait but I have no choice. I'm not going to jump into any temporary fix. I'll wait for the new thing.  

I'm 58 and I know that change is necessary. I'm prepared for change but like everybody else in the 55 plus demographic... I don't really like change.

I just want to be left alone to do what I did yesterday and wash my metformin down with a bottle of mountain dew like all of us.