Honey, I Shrunk the Bullpen

[strumdatjag]

Thielbar and Duran are down already.   Now, mlb.com’s Twins page is reporting that Justin Topa is going to start the season on the IL with left knee tendonitis. 
The bullpen bad news keeps piling on. 

[Danchat]

Definitely not ideal to lose 3/5 of the team's top relievers. Hopefully we will get some of them back sooner than later.

[Eicemann]

There are several FA RP who are no more than one season removed from having posted very solid numbers:  Anthony Bass, Brad Boxberger, Ryan Tepera, Brad Hand, Matt Bush, Mark Melancon, Aaron Loup, Dillon Peters.  But my preference would be to sign a FA SP like Montgomery, Clevinger or Greinke and move Varland to the bullpen.   

[nicksaviking]

Not a great start, but I'm happy none of the bullpen arms are down due to shoulder or elbow injuries.

[Azviking101]

5 hours ago, Eicemann said:

There are several FA RP who are no more than one season removed from having posted very solid numbers:  Anthony Bass, Brad Boxberger, Ryan Tepera, Brad Hand, Matt Bush, Mark Melancon, Aaron Loup, Dillon Peters.  But my preference would be to sign a FA SP like Montgomery, Clevinger or Greinke and move Varland to the bullpen.   

I think the Pohlad’s have made it clear that this is the payroll they’re starting the season at. I could see them adding via trade at the deadline if needed but Joe’s showing that his wallet is tighter than his dad’s was. I don’t see them adding anyone that’s not a league minimum waiver claim. 

[DocBauer]

1 hour ago, Azviking101 said:

I think the Pohlad’s have made it clear that this is the payroll they’re starting the season at. I could see them adding via trade at the deadline if needed but Joe’s showing that his wallet is tighter than his dad’s was. I don’t see them adding anyone that’s not a league minimum waiver claim. 

It's also about the 40 man. Only DeScalfini has a major injury at this time to warrant a 60 man IL stint. But until or unless someone else gets seriously injured, who do you trade or DFA to clear a 40 man spot even if they wanted to sign someone?

Not saying it might not happen. But it's also a 40 man decision and the potential loss or other assets.

[Shaitan]

7 hours ago, Eicemann said:

There are several FA RP who are no more than one season removed from having posted very solid numbers:  Anthony Bass, Brad Boxberger, Ryan Tepera, Brad Hand, Matt Bush, Mark Melancon, Aaron Loup, Dillon Peters.  But my preference would be to sign a FA SP like Montgomery, Clevinger or Greinke and move Varland to the bullpen.   

And they'll need a month to get into playing shape, when the injured pitchers are set to return anyway (hopefully).

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, DocBauer said:

who do you trade or DFA to clear a 40 man spot even if they wanted to sign someone?

Zach Weiss is not useful if he's injured.

[Rosterman]

Weiss will go on the 60-day if they wish to pay him. Not sure if they can release him. Also, Duran could easily be out for two months just to be safe. He can start rehabbing whenever in Florida and would serve a couple of weeks on a minor league stint before needing activation. But, no, I don't see him being back before June 1.

 

[DocBauer]

19 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Zach Weiss is not useful if he's injured.

Yes. I ALMOST listed him with DeScalfini as a possible 60 day IL option. I didn't only because I've read he might be throwing late March, or about now, and I'm not certain about his health or the option of a 15 day or 60 day. But you are correct to include him as a potential 60 day option.

[DocBauer]

Even though I'm always an optimist, I'm not going to "paint lipstick on a pig" and say everything is great. (First of all, pigs are pretty great animals, and baby pigs are about as cute as cute gets). 

Losing Duran for a month, maybe two, is pretty awful! Losing Thielbar and Topa...probably an additional 2 of your top 5...is nothing close to acceptable! Frankly, it stinks! (I'd like to use harsher language, but can't and won't). But, HOPEFULLY, Thielbar and Topa are short term loses. But after listening to the recent podcast of Gleeman and the Geek, I have to reinforce my optimism that the pen might be OK for a few weeks.

Jax and Stewart are going to have to be the fireman and closers for a little while. When we look at the past 10-15-20 years of Twins pens, we can look at a mixed collection of late inning arms and closers. Some were really good. Some were OK. Some were mediocre at best. Not to pick on anyone, but when we reflect on Capps and Colombe, and a few others, are we really any worse...temporarily...with Jax and Stewart for a month or so?

I'd pick those 2 over a few of the other options we've had the past 10-15-20 years. And we've even reached the playoffs a few years with those "other" guys. 

The ONUS, even temporarily, is on Alcala, Okert, Jackson, Thunderburk, Staumont, and maybe Sands to DO THEIR JOB. Even for a few weeks. 

Career numbers say Okert can do it. 

Career numbers say Staumont can do it since his velocity is BACK, but where's the control? Can he flip the switch soon?

Alcala, with any form of his previously decent/good change up could be MONSTER. The velocity and health are back. A couple bad outings doesn't deter me from having high hopes.

Funderburk flashed in 2023, and might have been promoted later than he should have been. I'm a believer in his potential. Is he ready for duty?

Jackson is a complete wild card. How on earth do you stick around for YEARS, go to the orient TWICE, I believe, and FINALLY get healthy and productive at age 36? I DON'T usually put a lot of faith in ST numbers, but he's looked good coming off a good, limited, season with the Jay's. 

Sands has a decent, average FB. It probably plays up in the pen. His curveball can be SICK at times. He didn't receive any favors from the Twins bouncing between ML and AAA the past 2yrs and BARELY being used in 2023. He had more days of service time than he had IP! But now he's supposed to be part of the initial pen? This kid probably has more pressure on him than anyone to prove he can be jerked around from level to level and STILL learn and adapt. 

BUT, if Okert can just be what he's been previously, if Staumont can be close to what he's been previously...maybe gaining control and momentum over the next few weeks...if Jackson can be the surprise he was for the Jay's in 2023 and what he's been in ST for the Twins so far in 2024, if Funderburk can just continue what he started in 2023...we can be OK for the 1st month. Better and deeper when Topa and Thielbar are healthy come May-ish. And really, really good when Duran comes back late May or June.

If you want to argue "IF's", I'll let you do so. But tell me the last time the Twins had enough bullpen depth to begin the season when they weren't dependent, with injury and question marks, on waiver wire additions or someone like the "lost" Balazovic being thrust in to the opening day lineup because there was nobody else? 

Yes, I'm optimistic. Yes, things could just BLOW UP. But the FO did RIGHT by bringing in a number of arms with potential. I'm banking on the depth to withstand some early concerns to be OK...not great...but OK, until Topa and Thielbar, and eventually Duran, are ready to be a TOP pen.

The ONUS is on the rotation to perform as expected, the offense to perform as expected, and the pen to just hold serve as best they can for a month or so.

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

It's also about the 40 man. Only DeScalfini has a major injury at this time to warrant a 60 man IL stint. But until or unless someone else gets seriously injured, who do you trade or DFA to clear a 40 man spot even if they wanted to sign someone?

Not saying it might not happen. But it's also a 40 man decision and the potential loss or other assets.

Since we were going to trade for a front line pitcher …….in the fantasy world we sign Montgomery, I’m sure there’s 15 spots that could be considered to be cleared w/o hesitation. …….agree, doubtful though if it’s a scrap heap reliever pick-up.

[Eicemann]

15 hours ago, Shaitan said:

And they'll need a month to get into playing shape, when the injured pitchers are set to return anyway (hopefully).

That may be true for candidate SP that need to be "stretched out" prior to joining the rotation.  But I believe that potential bullpen additions are already throwing enough on their own to be ready to contribute much sooner than that.  

[FlyingFinn]

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Jax and Stewart are going to have to be the fireman and closers for a little while.

Great test to see if they can mentally handle the closer role. Also, a great test for the rest of the bullpen to see if they can step up to a higher level. Not everyone will succeed though.

 

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Thunderburk

What a great nickname!

[Rosterman]

That the Twins do have an abundance of veteran and prospect arms to choose from is really a plus. The pain is the lack of space on the 40-man at the moment. Every spot is valuable. 

 

I want to see Scott Blewett in the pen at some point!

[Rod Carews Birthday]

13 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Even though I'm always an optimist, I'm not going to "paint lipstick on a pig" and say everything is great. (First of all, pigs are pretty great animals, and baby pigs are about as cute as cute gets). 

Losing Duran for a month, maybe two, is pretty awful! Losing Thielbar and Topa...probably an additional 2 of your top 5...is nothing close to acceptable! Frankly, it stinks! (I'd like to use harsher language, but can't and won't). But, HOPEFULLY, Thielbar and Topa are short term loses. But after listening to the recent podcast of Gleeman and the Geek, I have to reinforce my optimism that the pen might be OK for a few weeks.

Jax and Stewart are going to have to be the fireman and closers for a little while. When we look at the past 10-15-20 years of Twins pens, we can look at a mixed collection of late inning arms and closers. Some were really good. Some were OK. Some were mediocre at best. Not to pick on anyone, but when we reflect on Capps and Colombe, and a few others, are we really any worse...temporarily...with Jax and Stewart for a month or so?

I'd pick those 2 over a few of the other options we've had the past 10-15-20 years. And we've even reached the playoffs a few years with those "other" guys. 

The ONUS, even temporarily, is on Alcala, Okert, Jackson, Thunderburk, Staumont, and maybe Sands to DO THEIR JOB. Even for a few weeks. 

Career numbers say Okert can do it. 

Career numbers say Staumont can do it since his velocity is BACK, but where's the control? Can he flip the switch soon?

Alcala, with any form of his previously decent/good change up could be MONSTER. The velocity and health are back. A couple bad outings doesn't deter me from having high hopes.

Funderburk flashed in 2023, and might have been promoted later than he should have been. I'm a believer in his potential. Is he ready for duty?

Jackson is a complete wild card. How on earth do you stick around for YEARS, go to the orient TWICE, I believe, and FINALLY get healthy and productive at age 36? I DON'T usually put a lot of faith in ST numbers, but he's looked good coming off a good, limited, season with the Jay's. 

Sands has a decent, average FB. It probably plays up in the pen. His curveball can be SICK at times. He didn't receive any favors from the Twins bouncing between ML and AAA the past 2yrs and BARELY being used in 2023. He had more days of service time than he had IP! But now he's supposed to be part of the initial pen? This kid probably has more pressure on him than anyone to prove he can be jerked around from level to level and STILL learn and adapt. 

BUT, if Okert can just be what he's been previously, if Staumont can be close to what he's been previously...maybe gaining control and momentum over the next few weeks...if Jackson can be the surprise he was for the Jay's in 2023 and what he's been in ST for the Twins so far in 2024, if Funderburk can just continue what he started in 2023...we can be OK for the 1st month. Better and deeper when Topa and Thielbar are healthy come May-ish. And really, really good when Duran comes back late May or June.

If you want to argue "IF's", I'll let you do so. But tell me the last time the Twins had enough bullpen depth to begin the season when they weren't dependent, with injury and question marks, on waiver wire additions or someone like the "lost" Balazovic being thrust in to the opening day lineup because there was nobody else? 

Yes, I'm optimistic. Yes, things could just BLOW UP. But the FO did RIGHT by bringing in a number of arms with potential. I'm banking on the depth to withstand some early concerns to be OK...not great...but OK, until Topa and Thielbar, and eventually Duran, are ready to be a TOP pen.

The ONUS is on the rotation to perform as expected, the offense to perform as expected, and the pen to just hold serve as best they can for a month or so.

Yes.  Yes. and Yes.  There are soooooo many options there that have at least a reasonable track record and/or potential for success, that this bullpen will be fine.  It will look and feel different, but it will be fine.  I can't wait for the season to start so that there is actually some baseball to talk and write about rather than just speculation.

 

[stringer bell]

This may open up an early opportunity for a non-roster guy. Duarte has been mentioned quite often. Brigham put up a nice line in today's finale. He went 2 innings with one hit and five Ks. 

[Linus]

According to AG Funderburk Alcalá and Sands have been told they are making the team. I want to know what kind of pictures Cole Sands has that he has made this club

[Danchat]

12 minutes ago, Linus said:

According to AG Funderburk Alcalá and Sands have been told they are making the team. I want to know what kind of pictures Cole Sands has that he has made this club

Sands is on the 40 man roster and can throw multiple innings, that's why he's on the roster. Likely the first guy to be shipped to AAA when the need arises.

[Linus]

41 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Sands is on the 40 man roster and can throw multiple innings, that's why he's on the roster. Likely the first guy to be shipped to AAA when the need arises.

He is not a good pitcher. I get the multiple innings thing but they don’t really do that. He sat in the bullpen for long stretches last year. 

[stringer bell]

With 100% of the disabling injuries suffered by pitchers and all but one of those injuries to bullpen candidates, the bullpen isn't what most imagined when the Twins open in Kansas City. If they hadn't added Jackson and Okert late, they would be really short. As it is, what was regarded as a strength is having the depth checked immediately as the season opens. 

 

[strumdatjag]

Add Josh Staumont as the latest injured Twin to leave the Incredible Shrinking Bullpen. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Is there a Rick Moranis in this thread?

I am disappointed.

But that's okay, as i bet others are too based on our injury status.

Well, it is an opportunity for other folk to step up, and so the great circle of baseball continues.

[FlyingFinn]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:05 PM, Linus said:

He sat in the bullpen for long stretches last year. 

That's because the Twins starters were so good last year and went deep into games. The long man in the pen isn't going to be someone they think will be great someday. Those guys can't sit in the bullpen for two weeks without pitching. As @Danchat said, one long outing and he's on the train to St. Paul for the next guy to wait for his long outing. Most, if not all, teams use that last man in the pen (long man) this way. Hopefully Sands improves but I don't think he will.