Is Brooks Lee Ready?

[jorgenswest]

The spot for Lee is against right handed pitching. If he is judged to be better than Santana do the Twins need to find a spot for him? If so, there is certainly a spot in the lineup with Lee at second and Julien/Kirilloff at 1B or DH.

Finding that roster spot has been made difficult with the decision to go with so many short side platoon bats at the cost of Santana playing regularly against right handed pitching. If Lee is deemed to be in their best line up against right handed pitching which they will see about 75% of the time, which position player has the least value to the team to make a spot for him?

[stringer bell]

12 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

The spot for Lee is against right handed pitching. If he is judged to be better than Santana do the Twins need to find a spot for him? If so, there is certainly a spot in the lineup with Lee at second and Julien/Kirilloff at 1B or DH.

Finding that roster spot has been made difficult with the decision to go with so many short side platoon bats at the cost of Santana playing regularly against right handed pitching. If Lee is deemed to be in their best line up against right handed pitching which they will see about 75% of the time, which position player has the least value to the team to make a spot for him?

I think the spot will be created by injury. An injury to almost any position player except a catcher could be filled by Lee if the Twins think it’s his time. It would mean he would have moved past Martin, Larnach and Miranda. I’m not sure the Twins are convinced he’s ready. 

[jorgenswest]

4 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I think the spot will be created by injury. An injury to almost any position player except a catcher could be filled by Lee if the Twins think it’s his time. It would mean he would have moved past Martin, Larnach and Miranda. I’m not sure the Twins are convinced he’s ready. 

Agree. I think the only ones that can assess readiness are those that have been with him in every work out, batting cage and game. Stats from last year or this spring are of little value.

I hope they leave spring with the best possible lineup against right handed pitching rostered. That line up took a hit with the loss of Polanco and possibly Gordon. That left Santana or Larnach or maybe Lee as the best candidate. If it is not Santana then I guess we have to hope for an injury to make the roster work. It seems odd to hope for an injury. Which IL stay by a position player would have the least impact on winning?

[SteveLV]

He and Miranda are the Twins best 2 hitters in spring training.  Wallner needs to go to AAA to figure things out perhaps.  Miranda and Lee may force some interesting decisions for the Twins.

[FlyingFinn]

8 minutes ago, SteveLV said:

He and Miranda are the Twins best 2 hitters in spring training.  Wallner needs to go to AAA to figure things out perhaps.

The Twins are not going to throw Julien in at 1B now after working so hard with, and with improvement made, at 2B. They would be playing him there, which they haven't. And they would be playing Lee at 2B, which they haven't. The other possibility is 3B with Lewis in the OF. Again, that hasn't been done either. 

Wallner is a notoriously slow starter every season. I am now open to the possibility that the Twins decide to let him get hot with the Saints before calling him back up. But I think that means that Larnach gets the chance first. Still think the hitters are set with Wallner but he may change that.

[Fatbat]

He sure looks ready!!

[RpR]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Lee with a homer and a triple in his first two plate appearances today against the Blue Jays. 

Against a AAA picher and one whose ERA last year was over 7, he is ready to do very well in AAA but that is all that is for sure.

[Fatbat]

24 minutes ago, RpR said:

Against a AAA picher and one whose ERA last year was over 7, he is ready to do very well in AAA but that is all that is for sure.

Isn’t that how it works tho?  Dominate AAA then go to the show? How long do you have to stay in the minors when you are ready? 

[stringer bell]

3 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t that how it works tho?  Dominate AAA then go to the show? How long do you have to stay in the minors when you are ready? 

Yes, that is how it works and the opinions of the field staff around Lee hold a lot more importance than his Spring Training stats or his stats from 2023. I think it is significant that he hasn't played an inning of second base in a game and it tells me that he'll be learning second base in St. Paul. 

[Fatbat]

4 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Yes, that is how it works and the opinions of the field staff around Lee hold a lot more importance than his Spring Training stats or his stats from 2023. I think it is significant that he hasn't played an inning of second base in a game and it tells me that he'll be learning second base in St. Paul. 

Because 2nd is so much different than SS? Julien wasn’t exactly even average at 2nd until he developed more at the MLB level.  What if the best chance at winning games in MLB includes Lee’s AB’s just like Julien last year?  Wouldn’t they make room for him somewhere in MLB? 

[RpR]

27 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t that how it works tho?  Dominate AAA then go to the show? How long do you have to stay in the minors when you are ready? 

When the Major League coaches think you will not be eaten alive by Major League pitching.

Twins had gent last year who dominated in AAA, and was in a world of hurt in the Bigs.

[RpR]

11 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Because 2nd is so much different than SS? Julien wasn’t exactly even average at 2nd until he developed more at the MLB level.  What if the best chance at winning games in MLB includes Lee’s AB’s just like Julien last year?  Wouldn’t they make room for him somewhere in MLB? 

Julien is not even average yet.

[stringer bell]

19 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Because 2nd is so much different than SS? Julien wasn’t exactly even average at 2nd until he developed more at the MLB level.  What if the best chance at winning games in MLB includes Lee’s AB’s just like Julien last year?  Wouldn’t they make room for him somewhere in MLB? 

Not too much, but there are different angles and the double play pivot is quite different. The decision to charge or stay back is different too.

If the Twins are sure the quickest path for Lee to get to the majors is playing second base and it is soon(ish), he should be getting reps at game speed at second base. 

[Fatbat]

9 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Not too much, but there are different angles and the double play pivot is quite different. The decision to charge or stay back is different too.

If the Twins are sure the quickest path for Lee to get to the majors is playing second base and it is soon(ish), he should be getting reps at game speed at second base. 

Maybe a surprise is coming before ST is over.  I wouldn’t have guessed that Cease would be a Padre a week ago. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t that how it works tho?  Dominate AAA then go to the show? How long do you have to stay in the minors when you are ready? 

I'm more than fine with seeing Lee now or anytime this year, and he can leapfrog any other prospects as far as I'm concerned, but if AAA performance is the benchmark, he's probably sitting about 6th or 7th in line. Not sure this line of thinking holds up.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, SteveLV said:

He and Miranda are the Twins best 2 hitters in spring training.  Wallner needs to go to AAA to figure things out perhaps.  Miranda and Lee may force some interesting decisions for the Twins.

I wouldn't say Miranda is one of the best two hitters in the spring. There's a thread about his ST in the Front Page News forum. I don't think Miranda is forcing any difficult decisions at this point. 

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, stringer bell said:

I wouldn't say Miranda is one of the best two hitters in the spring. There's a thread about his ST in the Front Page News forum. I don't think Miranda is forcing any difficult decisions at this point. 

Yeah, personally I'm not basing spring training stats on my decision on who to roster, but those two are 14th and 15th on the team in OPS.

If anyone is giving the Twins ambitious thoughts based on spring training stats, it's Brian O'Keefe and Willie Joe Garry

[stringer bell]

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

The spot for Lee is against right handed pitching. If he is judged to be better than Santana do the Twins need to find a spot for him? If so, there is certainly a spot in the lineup with Lee at second and Julien/Kirilloff at 1B or DH.

Finding that roster spot has been made difficult with the decision to go with so many short side platoon bats at the cost of Santana playing regularly against right handed pitching. If Lee is deemed to be in their best line up against right handed pitching which they will see about 75% of the time, which position player has the least value to the team to make a spot for him?

What if Lee is judged to be the superior alternative to Wallner? Kirilloff to left field and Julien to DH? If Wallner were to struggle mightily for the first couple of weeks of the regular season, I could see something like that happening, but I don't think it will happen on Opening Day. 

[RpR]

25 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, personally I'm not basing spring training stats on my decision on who to roster, but those two are 14th and 15th on the team in OPS.

If anyone is giving the Twins ambitious thoughts based on spring training stats, it's Brian O'Keefe and Willie Joe Garry

Hmmm, Garry's BA and OPS last year in 11 games was 000.

Doing well against Spring Training pitching may,  or may not,  mean much depending on the pitcher one is facing; doing lousy against Spring Training pitching means a lot, if you can not hit against any one  here you probably will be a failure in the Big Show.

A high K rate here will probably follow the batter to the regular season.

If it meant nothing , there would not be visits to the mound by coaches or batters taking a time out, as why would they if it was meaningless?

[jorgenswest]

If there is a need in the outfield and Brooks Lee the best bat available against right handed pitching it sure would be nice to have Lewis ready to play out there. His athleticism is such a good fit and all of the other options appear to be role players rather than every day players.

I know that Falvey said last year that it was not an option for 2023 with his May start. It is 2024 and it isn’t hard to foresee a need in the outfield until Rodríguez and Jenkins arrive. 

[Fatbat]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, personally I'm not basing spring training stats on my decision on who to roster, but those two are 14th and 15th on the team in OPS.

If anyone is giving the Twins ambitious thoughts based on spring training stats, it's Brian O'Keefe and Willie Joe Garry

I doubt Okeefe and Garry are on the same trajectory that Lee is.  They also haven’t been given the ST opportunities that Lee has had. 

[dxpavelka]

On 3/17/2024 at 1:18 PM, FlyingFinn said:

Clearly, you are cherry picking as some bad 1st round picks are offset by great picks like Julien and Ober, etc. in late rounds. The Lewis pick was criticized by some but it turned out to be right. This discussion has been had numerous times over the past couple of years. 

Cherry picking?  Look up the number of all star appearances over the last 10 years by Twins 1st round picks.  Stretch it out to 20 years.  At least if you go back 25 you can pull Mauer into the discussion and make it interesting.

 

[LA Vikes Fan]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:38 PM, chpettit19 said:

Brooks Lee isn't going to the outfield. He's super slow. This is just getting off the rails now. When Brooks Lee is ready he'll get his chance. He's done nothing in professional baseball to show he's ready. When he actually hits league average in AAA we can have this discussion again. Until then he isn't replacing anyone on the 40-man let alone 26-man. And it's totally reasonable that that doesn't happen early in the 2024 season. 

Agreed on Lee not going to the OF but the OF could still effect when he comes up to the Twins. Right now, Wallner isn't hitting. At all. Hopefully that changes quickly. IF it doesn't and IF Kirilloff is hitting (or if Margot or Kepler gets hurt), one obvious solution is to send Wallner down to AAA to work out his issues,  move Kirilloff to LF or to the OF with Wallenr if it's an injury situation, move Julien to IB (where he apparently is getting work in ST), and bring up Lee to play 2B. That would actually be my preferred plan to deal with a corner OF issue over playing Margot or even Castro every day. 

No one is suggesting Brooks Lee play OF. I am suggesting, however, that he is the first one up whether the need is in the OF or the IF, because a hitting Kirilloff is the best OF solution in the short term.    

[chpettit19]

22 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Agreed on Lee not going to the OF but the OF could still effect when he comes up to the Twins. Right now, Wallner isn't hitting. At all. Hopefully that changes quickly. IF it doesn't and IF Kirilloff is hitting (or if Margot or Kepler gets hurt), one obvious solution is to send Wallner down to AAA to work out his issues,  move Kirilloff to LF or to the OF with Wallenr if it's an injury situation, move Julien to IB (where he apparently is getting work in ST), and bring up Lee to play 2B. That would actually be my preferred plan to deal with a corner OF issue over playing Margot or even Castro every day. 

No one is suggesting Brooks Lee play OF. I am suggesting, however, that he is the first one up whether the need is in the OF or the IF, because a hitting Kirilloff is the best OF solution in the short term.    

The other poster did, in fact, suggest that Lee could play OF and used Castro's lack of OF time prior to 2023 as an example as to why he could possibly play outfield. Your suggestion is not the same as the other poster who was suggesting Brooks Lee take Castro or Farmer's spot on the roster, including playing OF like Castro. 

Yes, the OF situation could affect Lee. I'd bet Larnach gets the look before Lee if the need is early in the year, but there are a number of ways guys could be moved around. Lee not being on the 40-man also plays a role here. How willing are they going to be to risk pitching depth early in the year to add Lee to the 40-man and call him up over Larnach if Wallner struggles or there's an injury to another OFer? Maybe that concern is fixed with a DeSclafani 60-day trip or maybe they're willing to drop Sands or Staumont early. Just saying there's more factors at play (I know people don't like it, but managing the roster isn't as straight forward as "who are our 13 best hitters").

I have no problem with them calling Lee up when he's ready. I was refuting statements about him playing the OF, or people needing to get fired if he isn't up early in 2024. When he's ready and there's an opening on the 26-man and reasonable 40-man move to be made they should call him up. I think his draft position and prospect rankings are doing a lot of work for him right now, though. This isn't a Kris Bryant situation where he's absolutely destroyed the minor leagues and isn't being called up. There's plenty of question marks in his play still that they don't need to force him past anyone until he's really shown he's ready for an everyday MLB job. I don't think he's done it yet. But he does look close and like he should be an option at some point in 2024.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I get it and hadn't really considered Lee not being on the 40 man as a factor, which it clearly is. I suspect they would give Larnach first shot if there's a need in the OF.  I personally think Lee is closer to be ready so I would go a different way but I do understand giving Larnach as much play as possible in his last  option year. I'm actually thinking they'd like Laranch to show something and then trade him at the deadline as part of a package for pitching. 

Like I said, I've been driving the "pump the Brakes on Lee" train all off season. I'm more open to him because I think Lee has shown considerable improvement at the plate and I am concerned that we are over reliant on 4 very unproven bats in Lewis, Julien, Jeffers, and Wallner.  I have great confidence in Lewis, some confidence in Julien and Jeffers, and Wallner scares me for the reasons I put in my earlier post. I have no confidence is Margot as a season long solution, some in Castro but not a lot (and why make him a LF when his best value is his versatility), and I don't see a lot in AAA to come up and play every day given Larnach's past struggles. I'm just looking for alternatives. Most years I wouldn't care because losing a few winnable games here and there doesn't matter if you're not a contender but this year we are in my view. I see Lee as the best alternative. 

[stringer bell]

Lee was officially reassigned to minor league camp. He will start the season at St. Paul barring a late injury to a position player. 

[stringer bell]

Lee didn't hurt his case for a quick promotion during Spring Training. The fact that he played zero games at second base indicated to me that he isn't a serious option there and only a disabling injury to Lewis or Correa will see him promoted early in the season. 

[IndianaTwin]

37 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Lee was officially reassigned to minor league camp. He will start the season at St. Paul barring a late injury to a position player. 

https://twinsdaily.com/news-rumors/minnesota-twins/twins-reassign-dinged-up-top-prospect-brooks-lee-to-minors-camp-r15868/

[bean5302]

On 3/17/2024 at 4:01 PM, FlyingFinn said:

Wallner is a notoriously slow starter every season...

This is not true. Wallner has raked right out of the gate 2 of the past 3 seasons. I think I commented on this earlier on a different thread. Not sure if your comment came after or before that.

Edited March 22, 2024 by bean5302
Clarifying timeline of my comment.

[RpR]

4 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

This is not true. Wallner has raked right out of the gate 2 of the past 3 seasons.

He had two good game in May which jacked his OPS from .448 to 1.099 and BA to .368.

By Sept. his BA was.218 when his strike out rate temp. slowed down and it was up to .249 by seasons end with a raised OPS of .877.