Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

Recommended Posts

Posted

The Minnesota Twins might have assembled the best bullpen across Major League Baseball for this season. That’s a great asset to have, but simply slotting former starters into those roles isn’t a straightforward way to build the group, and finding success isn’t as easy as it may be assumed.

Image courtesy of © Rick Osentoski-USA TODAY Sports

It is often assumed that some of the best relievers are failed starters. When looking back over Twins history, the first names that get thrown out are players like Glen Perkins or, more recently, Griffin Jax. Jhoan Durán was brought along as a starter, before having enough of an elbow issue to nudge him into the reliever bin and being too dominant to return, and Louie Varland could find himself experiencing a similar fate.

Boiling the scenario down to relief, being a fallback for a starter, isn’t that straightforward, however. Rocco Baldelli might employ the best bullpen in baseball this season, but in doing so, he will need to have the utmost confidence in each person sitting beyond the outfield wall. 

Last week, when talking to reporters in Fort Myers, Baldelli was asked about Jorge Alcalá and where he is coming into spring training. Of course, the goal for a guy who has missed so much time is for them to be healthy, but this is equally about preparation.

“I think a lot of it always comes back to strike-throwing and consistency in his pitches," Baldelli said. "When he is in the zone and has found his release point, if he’s not afraid to throw any of his pitches in any count and can do that successfully, he’s good. He’s got good stuff and can succeed. His spring is going to revolve around that type of consistency.”

When looking at an arm that has missed so much time, it's natural to assume that’s a large piece of the puzzle, but when there are limited spots in a good unit, high-level performance will reign supreme. Baldelli is confident that Alcalá is now healthy, and he’s looking to focus on performance. Although the role to which he's trying to stake a new claim is technically less demanding than that of a starter, though, there will be hurdles for Alcalá to clear, as well.

The Twins saw the emergence of Brock Stewart last season, and despite having suffered a career marred with injury, he transformed himself into a high-leverage reliever. While he worked just 28 innings for Minnesota, the Twins got some of their best bullpen value from the former Dodgers pitcher. His 0.65 ERA and 12.7 K/9 weren’t just the reflection of a failed starter making things work, but of the fact that he had settled into a relief role and found ways to excel.

After coming into spring training last year with some uncertainty surrounding his eventual role, things may be slightly different for Stewart this season. That said, knowing his performances are evaluated on a short-cycle basis, he is preparing the same way. “It’s like a tryout every day, and that’s kind of how I treat every outing.” Such is life; such is the plight of a reliever.

When pitchers struggle with durability, it is fair to question if a lesser workload would allow them a heightened level of performance. One of Minnesota’s best pitching prospects, Marco Raya, falls into this category. The problem is that the standard for per-batter performance is higher, and that that demand for more excellence comes along with less certainty about when you'll be called upon--and therefore, less capacity to work on things between outings or do simple conditioning and maintenance.

Those principles aren’t lost on Stewart, or on Alcalá. Remaining healthy and durable in a bullpen role is a worthwhile goal, but no simple one--not even relative to doing the same as a starter. Stretching toward the number of outings Stewart would like to have would also reflect a consistent level of performance.

“I want to be available and healthy. I want to be vigilant with my training and preparation every day," he told Bonnes. "I would love to have 75 appearances this year. One day at a time is the biggest thing.”

During the spring slate, relievers can work to find what helps them, availing themselves of a very predictable schedule. Once the regular campaign gets underway, though, and without the ability to circle a date every five games on the calendar, their usage is sporadic. A couple of years ago, Durán had to figure that out on the fly. Guys who manage to strike the delicate balance of being ready to pitch on any given night and doing the work between appearances to promote good health and in-season improvement are the ones who find the greatest level of success.

With the expectation of a good bullpen on paper, Baldelli must have confidence in his arms and (most importantly) their ability to execute. During the season, he can’t worry if a reliever loses a pitch or whether they can find the strike zone on a given night. During spring training, each individual can prove this to the manager, and the guys getting just a few outs to do so will face more pressure than those with a few innings to settle into a routine and make things work.

Developing good relievers isn’t as straightforward as shifting a stretched-out arm to the bullpen, and the teams and individuals who do it well harness much more than additional velocity or shelving a specific pitch.

Reporter credit: @John Bonnes


View full article

Posted

An underrated feature of becoming a good relief pitcher is having the ability to bounce back physically from day to day. Pitching is not a natural motion and throwing hard places some pretty severe stress on the body. A fair amount of pitchers find their careers ending because their body will not recover fast enough to fill the demands of a bullpen pitcher.  Relievers often need to be ready to pitch on consecutive days. The body might not always be receptive to that demand, which affects performance. Alcala seems to be someone who is more effective with several days of rest. However, those guys in the  bullpen need to be flexible and ready when called on to pitch. Honest communication is really important between relief pitchers, the coaches, and the manager.

Posted

I've heard that some SPs spend hrs. to prepare for a game. From that to a few minutes is a big change & many SPs especially in the past couldn't make that switch to RP. I marvel at how well Duran has made that transition not only relief but to high-leverage relief which is so much more stressful. That's why the BP is so volatile. I wish our RPs like Alcala has a great spring training & a fair shake of making the team breaking camp.

Posted

I keep reading how this is supposed to be the one of the best pens in the league. I hope that's right, but so much of that thought is based on very little history for some of these guys. There are guys in the 30s that have little MLB experience before last year, and some guys with a scary record of injuries. Plus there is Rocco. He seems to be growing into his role, but if we're honest, his pen management has been a bit suspect so far. Now maybe if these guys perform at the levels they are projected to and stay healthy.(what are the odds of that) this will be a really good pen. But IMO it's still a bit of a crap shoot whether or not everything goes as good as people think.

Posted
3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I've heard that some SPs spend hrs. to prepare for a game. From that to a few minutes is a big change & many SPs especially in the past couldn't make that switch to RP. I marvel at how well Duran has made that transition not only relief but to high-leverage relief which is so much more stressful. That's why the BP is so volatile. I wish our RPs like Alcala has a great spring training & a fair shake of making the team breaking camp.

I feel like a good example of this is Trevor May. He had back issues when going to the pen and attributed it to a lack of being able to get warm. Worked through it and made a lucrative career being a leverage guy.

Posted
2 hours ago, Karbo said:

I keep reading how this is supposed to be the one of the best pens in the league. I hope that's right, but so much of that thought is based on very little history for some of these guys. There are guys in the 30s that have little MLB experience before last year, and some guys with a scary record of injuries. Plus there is Rocco. He seems to be growing into his role, but if we're honest, his pen management has been a bit suspect so far. Now maybe if these guys perform at the levels they are projected to and stay healthy.(what are the odds of that) this will be a really good pen. But IMO it's still a bit of a crap shoot whether or not everything goes as good as people think.

To have a back end that already includes Duran, Jax, Stewart, and Thielbar is impressive.

Topa is solid.

If either Jackson or Staumont hit, that’s huge.

Starting a guy like Funderburk in Triple-A is impressive depth.

Posted
1 hour ago, Ted Schwerzler said:

To have a back end that already includes Duran, Jax, Stewart, and Thielbar is impressive.

Topa is solid.

If either Jackson or Staumont hit, that’s huge.

Starting a guy like Funderburk in Triple-A is impressive depth.

I mean, I want to believe, but after Duran I only kinda, sorta believe the pen will be impressive.

Jax basically has a two year track record.  It's been mostly good, but there have been bad spells, as recently as last May.  I think you can pencil him in as a solid B+ reliever, so of course he has value but I don't consider him elite yet.

Stewart, love him, but he had a good 2 month stretch last year followed by a 2 month trip to the DL.  Oh, and he was hurt for all of 2021 and most of 2022.  I want to believe he will be healthy, but nothing in his recent past suggests he will make it through the year.  He's the relief pitching version of Buxton.

Thielbar is 37.  *Shrugs*, could be good for another year, or could be near the end.  Father time is undefeated...

I'm also optimistic about Topa, but again, the sample size is small.

What the Twins do have is a large number of bullpen pitchers who will possibly be good.  If Rocco and his staff can quickly identify the right ones, great.  I suspect we will see both some successes, as well as some abject failures and injuries.  Hopefully more of the former than the latter.  And of course the bullpen HAS to be good, because only in our wildest dreams is this year's starting rotation better than last year's rotation.

Posted
17 hours ago, Ted Schwerzler said:

To have a back end that already includes Duran, Jax, Stewart, and Thielbar is impressive.

Topa is solid.

If either Jackson or Staumont hit, that’s huge.

Starting a guy like Funderburk in Triple-A is impressive depth.

I know everyone loves Stewart after last year's 27.2 inning sample, but, to @Karbo's point, that is his 1 great season in his MLB career at the age of 31. Obviously makes sense that he's someone to have high hopes for in 2024, but there's not a lot of track record there at all. And Thielbar isn't getting any younger. 

Topa was solid for 1 year at the age of 32. Again, I believe that's Karbo's point.

The pen has better names in it to start the year than any Twins pen I can remember. Nice depth for sure. But there is still a ton of variance and it's no sure thing that they'll be as great as people think. This pen isn't full of guys who don't have the same "bullpen arms are extremely volatile year to year" caveat as every other pen.

The depth in their pitching ranks overall gives them a great chance at having a really solid playoff pen, and that's what I care about. But listing guys in their 30s coming off career years as some sort of sure thing pen arms is ignoring a very long history of pen performance. Is Brock Stewart an elite shutdown arm or is he an unusable major leaguer who didn't throw a single major league pitch for 3 seasons after having been a really bad MLB pitcher before his breakout?

Posted

I am a bullpen skeptic. I agree this could be a great pen but it could also fall apart. We have lots of vets who have a chance, when our track records with most of them say they could also be a bust. We picked up a lot of arms. Many of them we got and then DFA'd and nobody wanted the ones we do have failed so we still have them. What is the lesson for that?  

I will hope and I will wait, but don't put me down on the list that says this is one of the best bullpend in the majors until it proves it. 

Posted

I think not having some questions about the pen would be misguided. But I also believe virtually every team in baseball begins the season with questions about their pen since it's a volatile part of any team by its very nature. It's really hard to predict who is going to be good enough season to season...month to month sometimes...to build a deep, viable group of 8-12-14 arms you can count on. But I believe in strength of numbers. And the Twins have that, which is why I'm optimistic.

I do like the back 4 a lot. Yes, one of these days Thielbar is going to surrender to Father Time. But he was still good last season, and his velocity even creeped up a bit. Even then, his game is built more on changing speeds, location, and mixing things up. I don't think he's done yet. Stewart is a great story. And maybe his arm just got a little fatigued at one point last year. That's what I'm hoping for. He could regress quite a bit and still be very good based on how untouchable he was. 39 IP between AAA and the Twins. Now that he's had a full season of success, I'd like to see about 50-55 innings. Can he do that? I'd sure like to believe he can as his arm seems to be built up to that now. Love Jax, and Duran is a STUD.

Topa is a Stewart clone in regard to not figuring it out, or having setbacks, until he hit his early 30's. But 69 very good IP is hard to argue with. Carrying on a theme, Jay Jackson went to Japan to get his career untracked. Despite limited ML IP, it seems to have worked, culminating with a very good 2023 for the Jays. But I'd doubt him more than others simply due to sample size. Still, it's a little strange Toronto didn't work to keep him after he looked so good. I don't know that Okert is anything special, but he's got a track record of 6 years, 5 being pretty damn good, with good K numbers, a good WHIP, and his hits per IP is excellent. Staumont is a mystery coming off surgery, even he's cleared and is supposedly throwing free and easy. He was very good for 2 1/2 seasons with KC before arm issues. Even then the K numbers were good despite his peripherals. And he's got an option left if he needs time to get his control harnessed. Weiss is a complete mystery to me. He's got limited IP, but the hits per look good, and the K's look good, and the WHIP is OK. The BB stink though. I think he would have been gone if Winder hadn't been a 60 candidate as he was behind everyone else.

A couple of these guys have the talent to continue to succeed. A couple will wash out, or need time to get their stuff together, Staumont being that prime example.

To be honest, I actually have more faith in Funderburk and a fully healthy Alcala than a couple of these guys. But with options available, Funderburk is going to begin 2024 at St Paul. And all he has to do is keep doing what he's been doing and just wait for his opportunity. And Rocco pretty much nailed it on Alcala. What he really only needed to say was; stay healthy, and prove you have the same control of the change up you showed the last half of 2021. If he does that, like Funderburk, it's only a question of when, and not if.

Further down on the farm, I love Sands' breaking ball. Can he make it and his other stuff work for an inning or two as the 7th or 8th man? Maybe. But I haven't given up on him yet. And while Winder has had a setback, and won't be elgible until late May now, his slider is very good. Can he get his new 2 seamer to work? Well, he's going to get the opportunity to work on it at St Paul when healthy. But if he can, he's a possible 1-2 IP arm with a nice slider also part of the front part of the pen. Headrick will PROBABLY begin 2024 in the Saints rotation, but I just feel he's destined for the pen. I think a lot of people forget he basically jumped from a nice 2nd half of 2022 almost straight to the ML as a fungible arm who bounced between 2 levels last year. He flashed in ST, didn't look out of place early, and then looked like he didn't belong. I really think he and the Twins would be best served transitioning him to the pen now, instead of later. Let him adjust and learn how to be a reliever as I think that's his best role. Remember Ronny Henriquez? He's still only 23yo and not on the 40 man any longer. And he battled some injuries in 2023. He had a run of a few weeks that resulted in an OP on TD that maybe the Twins should look at him. WAY to SSS! But if SWR keeps getting love for being so young and still full of potential, then I have to wonder how Henriquez, fully healthy and fully transitioned to a pen role might do in 2024. And I'm not even going to begin the conversation about SP arms that might help come September and October. That's a completely different conversation. 

For NOW, it's about depth and potential in numbers. And I like where the pen is at this moment.

 

Posted
9 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I know everyone loves Stewart after last year's 27.2 inning sample, but, to @Karbo's point, that is his 1 great season in his MLB career at the age of 31. Obviously makes sense that he's someone to have high hopes for in 2024, but there's not a lot of track record there at all. And Thielbar isn't getting any younger. 

Topa was solid for 1 year at the age of 32. Again, I believe that's Karbo's point.

The pen has better names in it to start the year than any Twins pen I can remember. Nice depth for sure. But there is still a ton of variance and it's no sure thing that they'll be as great as people think. This pen isn't full of guys who don't have the same "bullpen arms are extremely volatile year to year" caveat as every other pen.

The depth in their pitching ranks overall gives them a great chance at having a really solid playoff pen, and that's what I care about. But listing guys in their 30s coming off career years as some sort of sure thing pen arms is ignoring a very long history of pen performance. Is Brock Stewart and elite shutdown arm or is he an unusable major leaguer who didn't throw a single major league pitch for 3 seasons after having been a really bad MLB pitcher before his breakout?

It's an excellent reflection. It brings to mind how we made a big trade with Baltimore for a pitcher who was having a career year in the bullpen after a mediocre career? Before that. We got him in the career year ended. It's really so hard to predict bullpen's success 

Posted
3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Expect to hear umpires shout this with great regularity: Steee-rike!

bowling+(2).jpg

I could go back and correct it. Not that you pointed this out but I kind of like it. That's what happens with voice recognition. I've spent the last month in the hospital and getting treated and so I'm depending on voice to do my communicating. Thanks for the laugh. 

Posted
4 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

It's an excellent reflection. It brings to mind how we made a big trade with Baltimore for a pitcher who was having a career year in the bullpen after a mediocre career? Before that. We got him in the career year ended. It's really so hard to predict bullpen's success 

Yes indeed, trying to maintain an effective bullpen seems sometimes to be a game of chance. We look good on paper right now, but who knows how the pen performs the first month or two. I foresee a few quick callups. 

Posted
16 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I know everyone loves Stewart after last year's 27.2 inning sample, but, to @Karbo's point, that is his 1 great season in his MLB career at the age of 31. Obviously makes sense that he's someone to have high hopes for in 2024, but there's not a lot of track record there at all. And Thielbar isn't getting any younger. 

Topa was solid for 1 year at the age of 32. Again, I believe that's Karbo's point.

The pen has better names in it to start the year than any Twins pen I can remember. Nice depth for sure. But there is still a ton of variance and it's no sure thing that they'll be as great as people think. This pen isn't full of guys who don't have the same "bullpen arms are extremely volatile year to year" caveat as every other pen.

The depth in their pitching ranks overall gives them a great chance at having a really solid playoff pen, and that's what I care about. But listing guys in their 30s coming off career years as some sort of sure thing pen arms is ignoring a very long history of pen performance. Is Brock Stewart an elite shutdown arm or is he an unusable major leaguer who didn't throw a single major league pitch for 3 seasons after having been a really bad MLB pitcher before his breakout?

I guess I'm trying to say its way too early to call this one of the best pens in the league. True they should have a very good back end, but there are too many "unknowns or unproven" to anoint this one of the top pens yet. I'm just not ready to drink that kool aide yet.

Posted

So much of it now is having a stable of young relievers with options that you can bring up and down when injury hits or a guy has to throw too many innings in a three-day stretch. 

We signed a lot of relievers this summer who have no options left. I think that was a waste of effort and a good number of them will have to be released because you can't send them up and down.

Posted
9 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I could go back and correct it. Not that you pointed this out but I kind of like it. That's what happens with voice recognition. I've spent the last month in the hospital and getting treated and so I'm depending on voice to do my communicating. Thanks for the laugh. 

Glad you took it the way I intended.  I don't do grammar/spelling flames.  But if a typo is genuinely funny, sometimes I can't resist putting a lampshade on it and seeing if I can improve on it.

Oh, and good luck with the health issues.

Posted

If they prove by the end of the year that they are the best pen in the game, that's soon enough for me. Of course proving every game inning by inning would be even better, but I'll take a full seasons result as evidence.

Posted
On 2/28/2024 at 1:13 PM, Ted Schwerzler said:

To have a back end that already includes Duran, Jax, Stewart, and Thielbar is impressive.

I mean…Jax blew 7 saves last year and lost 10 games. Throws one  pitch constantly…and batters were putting it into play more frequently. And Thielbar gave up 7 HR in 30 innings last year (reflected in his FIP). Why? Because the new rules require that he pitch against right-handed batters more frequently…and they demolished him. Stewart needs to stay healthy and repeat best-in-career results…and even Duran wasn’t “lights out” last year with his sudden bouts of loosing the K zone.

I’m expecting an above average bullpen based on depth…especially if Alcala finally ‘arrives’. Still, the way the starting rotation is shaping up, the depth will likely be put to a pretty stiff test. Me thinks we’re getting a bit ahead of ourselves regarding the bullpen, though.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund

You all care about this site. The next step is caring for it. We’re asking you to caretake this site so it can remain the premier Twins community on the internet.

×
×
  • Create New...