The Twins' 2023 Trade Deadline Was a Far Bigger Disaster Than 2022

[Woof Bronzer]

4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It's not hard. You schedule it ahead of time, start their normal warmup in the 4th inning and have them come in to start the 6th inning. Let the short reliever come in if there is a need halfway through the 5th.

I'd rather they use Ryan, Ober and Varland than Jax, Floro and Balazovic.

If the Twins script out a scenario in which they remove one of their 2 best pitchers after 5 regardless of performance and how the game plays out in order to bring in a minor leaguer, the entire FO and field staff should be fired immediately after the game.  

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If the Twins script out a scenario in which they remove one of their 2 best pitchers after 5 regardless of performance and how the game plays out in order to bring in a minor leaguer, the entire FO and field staff should be fired immediately after the game.  

It's really easy to adjust and have them come in the 7th inning instead of the 6th if you want to get one more inning out of Gray or Lopez. We all know they're not going to use either of them past inning 6.

Who would you rather have pitching the first clean inning, Floro or Ryan?

[Mike Sixel]

All I have to add is that they better make the bullpen better next year (I've been calling for their heads most of this year, and the bullpen is just one reason).

[Woof Bronzer]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

Who would you rather have pitching the first clean inning, Floro or Ryan?

Why are those the only options?  But thanks for proving my point that they sure could've used some bullpen help at the deadline!  

[Mike Sixel]

People are asking for Gray to go longer? Have y'all looked at how he's actually done going past the 6th? Really? 

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

There are four relievers listed in MLBs top 23 deadline trades. Since they were moved it is fair to believe the Twins could have made a better offer and won the deal. I was interested to know how they were performing with their new clubs as well as what it might take to win the deal.

They could have acquired Jordan Hicks, David Robertson, Scott Barlow or Paul Sewald by beating the offer of the other team.

.Could the Twins have avoided disaster by adding one of the 4? What would it take? I looked at the deals in the Twins Forum.

 

Barlow is having a poor season that has continued to be poor in San Diego

Robertson netted to teenagers who rank 12 and 20 in the Mets prospect rankings while they are in rookie level

Sewald netted 2 near MLB ready prospects and a throw in. They were in the 10-15 range in rankings

Hicks netted 2 prospects that were like 9 and 12., both were pitchers.

The better offer for Robertson would have been like Soto and DeAndrade

For Sewald it is probably Wallner, another prospect and Farmer or Castro

2 pitchers for Hicks the Twins probably do not have that to give up

 

[Woof Bronzer]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

People are asking for Gray to go longer? Have y'all looked at how he's actually done going past the 6th? Really? 

How's the bullpen been handling that 6th/7th inning?  

This team focuses way too much on when to pull guys, and way too little on who they are going to replace them with.  I trust a tiring Gray more than a fresh Floro, Pagan, Sands, etc.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

How's the bullpen been handling that 6th/7th inning?  

This team focuses way too much on when to pull guys, and way too little on who they are going to replace them with.  I trust a tiring Gray more than a fresh Floro, Pagan, Sands, etc.

go look at the numbers, he's much worse than Pagan that far into the game. And, come on, Sands? Really? He's barely even on the roster. 

[jorgenswest]

12 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Robertson netted to teenagers who rank 12 and 20 in the Mets prospect rankings while they are in rookie level

The Mets really favored the high upside under 20 prospects. They also received a 2023 top 50 international prospect for Pham. It probably would have taken Twins top international signings of the last few years. Those players are so far away and often don’t establish themselves before they are a 40 man roster decision. Falvey and Levine must feel pretty secure not to engage the Mets in trading off the very young few away prospects for players like Robertson and Pham that were needed.

[Woof Bronzer]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

go look at the numbers, he's much worse than Pagan that far into the game. And, come on, Sands? Really? He's barely even on the roster. 

If you're advocating for scripting out an early hook regardless of how well Gray pitches or the game plays out, I could not disagree more.

Look at the bullpen's numbers since the break.  Are they good?  How has Pagan performed in high leverage situations?  

[RpR]

Pagan has been no worse than most of the bullpen; using him as a scape goat no longer makes sense.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

There are four relievers listed in MLBs top 23 deadline trades. Since they were moved it is fair to believe the Twins could have made a better offer and won the deal. I was interested to know how they were performing with their new clubs as well as what it might take to win the deal.

They could have acquired Jordan Hicks, David Robertson, Scott Barlow or Paul Sewald by beating the offer of the other team.

.Could the Twins have avoided disaster by adding one of the 4? What would it take? I looked at the deals in the Twins Forum.

 

It's really easy for me to say... go acquire someone. 

It always takes two to tango. I have no idea who the other clubs are asking for. 

I do consider no addition worse than failing with the additions that you do acquire... However... if the ask is too high... it's too high. 

I have already forgiven the front office for standing still this trade deadline with the simple assumption that they made some phone calls instead of the assumption that they didn't try at all. 

But Yeah... Cue the Kings of Leon... We could "Use Somebody".    😎

[TwinsDr2021]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

For playoffs I don't disagree but I am starting to question if they will make it given how poorly the pen has been doing recently.  They could get swept by Texas then they play Cleveland whose rotation is just as good and pen better than ours and we have a tough time with the Guardians in General and those are our next 12 games or so.  If they don't find some wins there things are going to get tough right quick.

Also I don't know if the Tigers are for real but if they keep plugging away they play the Yankee's who don't look that good right now a bunch and then they have a pretty easy schedule the rest of the way just like the Twins.  If they reel us in things look tough again.

If this team doesn't get its act together soon they won't make the playoffs.

Not meant just for you, but those that think they will miss the playoffs should be screaming to fire this FO. I mean not winning your division when you are the only team trying is gross and horrible.

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

People are asking for Gray to go longer? Have y'all looked at how he's actually done going past the 6th? Really? 

Can I choose neither? Joking.....kinda. 

Gray vs. Floro/Ortega/Winder is almost two sides of the same coin at this point. 

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Not meant just for you, but those that think they will miss the playoffs should be screaming to fire this FO. I mean not winning your division when you are the only team trying is gross and horrible.

I think we will know more about how this all shakes out in two weeks. None of the three teams have shown any real consistency but with the Twins losing so many winnable games they have put themselves in a tough spot if either Detroit or Cleveland go on any kind of run they could pass the Twins.

Was thinking of the irony if Detroit would catch the Twins at the end kind of like the Twins did to the Tigers when they were six or seven games back with a month to go.  Karma could come back to hurt them if that happened.

[Battle ur tail off]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

 And, come on, Sands? Really? He's barely even on the roster. 

Then why is he there? DFA and select someone else to the 40-man and give someone a chance. He sits there and collects dust, chews sunflower seeds and possibly conversates with the others but is of not much use to the BP other than that, unless we are losing a game by 6 runs.

I'm also fine with brining Varland up and sending one of these other pitchers with options down. Use him as a swingman, this seems like common sense right now.

[Nick Nelson]

4 hours ago, Ricky Vaughn said:

I have no insight into the front office workings, however I have an idea. Is it possible they were told no net increase in payroll. I'm not calling the Pohlads cheap here, but why would they approve an increase in payroll for an under performing team.  Attendance is down, and they are performing much like last year without the same number of injuries. Doing nothing is not like this front office so this is the only thing that makes any sense to me, and if its right I can't really blame the Pohlads.

Hans Birkeland wrote a piece here shortly after the deadline suggesting this very thing. Honestly it's very plausible. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Investing money or prospects into the BP, either in the offseason or the trade deadline, is a HUGE risk.  Reliever volatility is extremely bad.  The number BP guys that can and should  truly command a haul in a trade or signing is extremely low.

People forget that this rotation is near the top in IP because they have been so strong.  When they get into the playoffs, they will only need 3 starters and 3-4 relievers due to all the off days.  Is anybody going to complain if Maeda and Ober see middle innings during the playoffs?  Keuchel is still in this discussion as well.

It would have been nice to see a few additions to this team at the deadline, but I am not going to presume to know why they made the decisions they made:  Pohlad's dictating no salary increase?  FO feeling cost for moves was considered too high?  Other teams not wanting to work with Minnesota?  Players not wanting to come here?
  
When you truly know who to get mad at for the deadline decisions, let me know.