Twins 7, White Sox 3 (F/12): López, Bullpen Dazzle, Offense Comes Through in Extras

[IndianaTwin]

9 hours ago, ashbury said:

The bullpen was NOT lights-out. Only Moran in the 12th didn't walk anybody, and a baserunner reached 3rd four out of five innings.  This was a tightwire act, not a shutdown exhibition, and they were extremely fortunate to not get burned even once when the game was for the taking.

In five innings, they gave up two unintentional walks and one hit. The hit happened after they were up five runs. Two of the runners reaching third were Manfred Men. Besides the ground ball single, only two balls left the infield. They limited the Sox to 1 for 13 with RISP. 

I acknowledge two wild pitches, but what do they need to do to be considered “lights out” in your book? 

 

 

Related, but not necessarily directed at you, I’d also suggest that Rocco’s managing contributed greatly to that success, since he used the intentional walks to put the relievers in the best possible situations to succeed.

By contrast, in playing for the win by using Hamilton as a pinch runner in the eighth, the Sox manager took one of his best bats (Vaughn) out of the game in what turned out to be two more times through the lineup. Hamilton struck out twice to end innings in what could have been Vaughn’s spot. 

 

Edit to add, since I just caught that you referenced this, I don’t know that you were necessarily arguing against the intentional walks to get to Hamilton, but I do think it was the right strategy, even though that means he’ll be the Manfred Man.

I look at it this way. Facing Hamilton increases the chances of getting another inning. If the Twins score even one run in the next inning (against a Sox pen that’s getting weaker and weaker), which they SHOULD have been able to do, Hamilton is only the tying run. If the Twins score even two runs rather than five, then Hamilton is indeed irrelevant.

(In fact, if the Twins had scored just two, or even three, I’d have been tempted to just balk Hamilton around to score, so that he isn’t a distraction on the bases — I’d rather face Eloy up just a run than face him up two with a distraction on second. The only advantage to not giving Hamilton the free run is the slim chance that he runs himself into an out. But that’s a discussion for another day.)

You note that having Hamilton lead off the next inning is a free out, though the counter to that is to say that the out very likely would have been on an attempted bunt, so while a “free” out to the Twins, it’s not a valueless out for the Sox. And with Hamilton’s speed, a sac bunt attempt might not even lead to an out, leaving them with first and third and no one out. And then Hamilton steals second, so there’s no double play.

Or even worse, the fielder could doink the throw off Hamilton’s head, leading to a walkoff. 😀

[Peter]

Bullpen was awesome!!! Especially pagon!!! They came through big time as well C4 and buxton with clutch home runs!!! Even though we lost series this was huge win and sox are better than their record. Division games are always difficult no matter the record of other teams. Huge huge huge much needed win!!

[Riverbrian]

10th Inning:

Vazquez on 2nd

Gordon: Pops up the bunt

Kepler: Walks

Correa: Hits into Double Play

 

11th Inning

Correa on 2nd

Buxton, Polanco and Larnach all go down swinging

 

I wish I could just blow this off and say things like this happen in baseball on occasion. This really hasn't been occasionally with our club. 

Even with a ghost runner on 2nd to start the inning, this team has ****ing struggled to manufacture extra inning runs.

Manfred Man on 2nd base. Twins are Blinded by the Light.

[Melissa]

8 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I was watching today's game from some of the best seats I have ever had at Guaranteed Rate Field, right behind the Twin's dugout.  

Sorry for the book report.  Others may see it differently.  Just one guy's observations.  Go Twins!

Very interesting and enlightening post - thanks!

[Craig Arko]

I don’t need lights out; I just need sufficiency. As always, perfection is the enemy of good.

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, h2oface said:

It was good to see Baldelli not pull Lopez after 6, and start the 7th with only 88 pitches and behind 2-1, having given up 6 hits, 3 for extra bases (1 homer and 2 doubles) 8 Ks, only 1 walk. He was pitching fine, and handled the 7th fine. Great to see Lopez throw another good game after 2 in which he game up 11 earned in 10 innings (9,90 ERA)

However, Baldelli pulled Ryan after six ahead 1-0, with 87 pitches, 60 for strikes, throwing a 1 hitter (single), 7 Ks 2 walks, the last a 12 pitch walk in the 6th to Anderson, and 18 total pitches in the last inning. His velo was down slightly in the 6th. But still, why? So shakey Jorge Lopez could blow his game up in 8 pitches. Arguably a better game pitched than Pablo Lopez, and Ryan gets pulled with the same # of (1 less) pitches and didn't get the opportunity to pitch the 7th. Or consequently, win the 6th start to start a season, and set a franchise record (I think). He was still in line for it, though, until Jorge Lopez.

Maybe Ryan was tired, and said he was done? Seems he deserved the opportunity if it was Baldelli.

The argument used to be that he used a spreadsheet and did not ever consider what he was observing.  It sounds like what you really want is for him to leave the SP in no matter what he observes.   I did not think Ryan looked very good in the 6th.  Do we want him to leave the SP in until he unravels, or do we want him to exercise so judgment and avoid a good start gone bad?  Seems like the answer for you is to always leave him in which is ironic given you have accused Rocco of not be capable of adjusting to how well a SP is pitching in a given game.

[Doctor Wu]

10 hours ago, stringer bell said:

It shouldn't come as a surprise that Hanser Alberto swung at a pitch that hit him. He is Astudillo-like without contact skills. It absolutely was a key play in winning the game. 

Stewart pitched well and bailed out Jeffers after he failed to catch/block a low pitch. Pagan got outs and Jorge Lopez had a nice comeback outing.

Astudillo-like

I love that phrase!

[Karbo]

A few things; I'm getting sick of seeing the boys swinging and missing so many balls above tha zone, Stewart looks like he may be a good find, and I hate the ghost runner rule!

[Major League Ready]

The positive takeaway from this game is they might have found a pretty good RP in Brock Stewart.  Unfortunately, he does not have any options, but he is under team control through 2027.  He looked great this spring and in AAA and so far been pretty impressive at the ML level.  Get Henriguez back and I am feeling pretty good about the BP.

[Melissa]

I appreciate having the starting pitcher comments. I’m very impressed with Pablo López.

[Doctor Wu]

4 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

In five innings, they gave up two unintentional walks and one hit. The hit happened after they were up five runs. Two of the runners reaching third were Manfred Men. Besides the ground ball single, only two balls left the infield. They limited the Sox to 1 for 13 with RISP. 

I acknowledge two wild pitches, but what do they need to do to be considered “lights out” in your book? 

 

 

Related, but not necessarily directed at you, I’d also suggest that Rocco’s managing contributed greatly to that success, since he used the intentional walks to put the relievers in the best possible situations to succeed.

By contrast, in playing for the win by using Hamilton as a pinch runner in the eighth, the Sox manager took one of his best bats (Vaughn) out of the game in what turned out to be two more times through the lineup. Hamilton struck out twice to end innings in what could have been Vaughn’s spot. 

 

Edit to add, since I just caught that you referenced this, I don’t know that you were necessarily arguing against the intentional walks to get to Hamilton, but I do think it was the right strategy, even though that means he’ll be the Manfred Man.

I look at it this way. Facing Hamilton increases the chances of getting another inning. If the Twins score even one run in the next inning (against a Sox pen that’s getting weaker and weaker), which they SHOULD have been able to do, Hamilton is only the tying run. If the Twins score even two runs rather than five, then Hamilton is indeed irrelevant.

(In fact, if the Twins had scored just two, or even three, I’d have been tempted to just balk Hamilton around to score, so that he isn’t a distraction on the bases — I’d rather face Eloy up just a run than face him up two with a distraction on second. The only advantage to not giving Hamilton the free run is the slim chance that he runs himself into an out. But that’s a discussion for another day.)

You note that having Hamilton lead off the next inning is a free out, though the counter to that is to say that the out very likely would have been on an attempted bunt, so while a “free” out to the Twins, it’s not a valueless out for the Sox. And with Hamilton’s speed, a sac bunt attempt might not even lead to an out, leaving them with first and third and no one out. And then Hamilton steals second, so there’s no double play.

Or even worse, the fielder could doink the throw off Hamilton’s head, leading to a walkoff. 😀

"the Manfred Man"

This is another new term that I think is brilliant! 

[Squirrel]

10 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I was watching today's game from some of the best seats I have ever had at Guaranteed Rate Field, right behind the Twin's dugout.

I once was in row 2, just to the left of the dugout, near the on deck batter’s circle

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

"the Manfred Man"

This is another new term that I think is brilliant! 

I can't claim it as original, but it works. 

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, Karbo said:

A few things; I'm getting sick of seeing the boys swinging and missing so many balls above tha zone, Stewart looks like he may be a good find, and I hate the ghost runner rule!

All in all, I still don't like that rule either. It's so anticlimactic to have a team shut down the opponent, but then win on a single bloop single or bleeder that gets through the infield. At the least, I'd like to see them play some "regular" innings and then start this nonsense in, say, the 12th.

That said, last night may have been the first time when I felt engaged with it. It added a wrinkle to the strategy of walking Benintendi to get to Hamilton, for example, knowing that he'll start the next inning on second. And with the way the offenses were going, they could have easily gone on forever. 

I will say that last night was a great example for me of how the pitch clock and engagement rule changes things. They played 12 innings in 3:37. Can you imagine the amount of stepping out, stepping off and throwing over that would have happened. It would have been exciting at some level, but it would have easily gone 4:37 without those rules. 

[jmlease1]

Any win is a good win. bummer that they had to go 12 (a bit odd in the "Manfred Man" Era); hopefully we can a) get a good long start from Ober tonight and b) maybe be in a position where someone like Winder can just clean up the rest of the game.

The ChiSox have some issues, but they're a better team than their current record. I was nervous about this series coming in because their pitching was better than the early results, and at some point it felt like they would get on track. Of course, if we had squeaked out Game 1 it's a series win and most of us are happy. (some people seem bound and determined not to be happy this Twins season? I'm absolutely blown away when I see someone declaring the twins will finish 10 games behind Cleveland after a loss)

[SockNet]

This team has zero killer instinct. I guess Buxton sometimes has high WPA at bats but this these Twins just can do nothing with runners on base. The stat from Provis before Poloncos 12th inning single: Twins are 3 for 24 with bases loaded this year. Dead last in baseball. 

I needed that really, so I knew what I have been witnessing and feeling is real and justified.

[stringer bell]

9 minutes ago, SockNet said:

This team has zero killer instinct. I guess Buxton sometimes has high WPA at bats but this these Twins just can do nothing with runners on base. The stat from Provis before Poloncos 12th inning single: Twins are 3 for 24 with bases loaded this year. Dead last in baseball. 

I needed that really, so I knew what I have been witnessing and feeling is real and justified.

There's a thread about this. Yes, the Twins have been beyond awful with the bases loaded, but they've been more than respectable with runners in scoring position and have hit the second most three-run homers. One stat doesn't tell the whole story. 

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

All in all, I still don't like that rule either. It's so anticlimactic to have a team shut down the opponent, but then win on a single bloop single or bleeder that gets through the infield. At the least, I'd like to see them play some "regular" innings and then start this nonsense in, say, the 12th.

That said, last night may have been the first time when I felt engaged with it. It added a wrinkle to the strategy of walking Benintendi to get to Hamilton, for example, knowing that he'll start the next inning on second. And with the way the offenses were going, they could have easily gone on forever. 

I will say that last night was a great example for me of how the pitch clock and engagement rule changes things. They played 12 innings in 3:37. Can you imagine the amount of stepping out, stepping off and throwing over that would have happened. It would have been exciting at some level, but it would have easily gone 4:37 without those rules. 

The two bolded items tie in together, making me especially eager to agree with going back to normal rules for the 10th and 11th.  If the offenses are inept, the extra innings might go even faster without the runner on second that starts things off.  And if one of the offenses manages to scratch out a winning run by the regular rules, it just seems more organic.

[Larry Janisewski]

20 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Yes we avoided a sweep  but barely ...

Had the umpires ruled that swinging strike a hit batter,  the game could have ended or went to review . ..

The bat's are quiet once again  , 15 strikeouts  , more than half the outs need were strikeouts  ...

Minnesota I think you have a problem ...

Bullpen  worked out of jams , walks , some intentional but it was intense just the Same  ...

Our defense was very good  , turned 2 double plays and the moran double play to Polanco to first was a gem ...

Twins hitting continues to be pathetic. Coming into the series the White Sox were 8-21. Twins managed only 17 hits in the 3 games. Could have easily been swept.