This Off-Season Slowly Turning Horrible

[WhenWillWeBeatNY]

The Twins have made no major moves. Obviously we are in serious talks with Correa but that has been going on for so long. All the big free agent SP’s are starting to fall off the board. We either need to sign Correa or don’t because if we keep wasting our time with him by the time he says no and signs somewhere else we are going to have no other options when we try turn to find an SP.  How hard is it? Catcher, SP, SS done. We don’t even need a SS that bad imo. Lewis and Lee could be the real deal. Move on from Correa and make some moves!!

[mnfireman]

Other than what we've heard about Turner and Judge turning down San Diego's offers, we don't know what FA's have turned down offers from teams, or teams rejecting FA counter-offers. More so than ever it looks like the player's are dictating where they go and playing teams against each other. 

It also looks like the Twins are possibly content with the players they have, other than still being in on Correa and maybe Bogaerts, until the FA market plays out and trades start being made.

[4twinsJA]

Twins FO does not getting in bidding war for FA, hate overpaying FA. FO general plan is to wait until frenzy over then try to pick up underrated bargains. Occasionally effective, but always frustrating for fanbase. 

[Beast]

It’s the Twins.  Expecting anything different is on us at this point.

The merits of the strategy is a different conversation that can be debated.  I happen to think it’s a stupid strategy that has panned out for maybe 1 team in history (the Royals, which again is debatable).

You can get into all the chicken/egg revenue vs. spending vs. winning debates you want.  But, the bottom line is clear.  The Twins will not make the investment required to be a competitive team.  They need a slow-burn 10 year rebuild.  Even then, they need to basically win the lottery prospect-wise just to be a playoff contender again after those 10 years.  Throw in another monkey wrench: the lottery.  That is designed to help the “large market” teams and will only hurt small market teams over time.

This franchise is the walking dead.  There is zero chance of them ever making it back to, let alone, winning a World Series until the entire revenue/salary structure of the league is changed to be more like the NFL.

Frankly, it makes me sick.  I want to love this team so badly.  So many good memories and years spent investing.  But, as I get older and see the landscape - it’s just over.  Probably has been since ‘92, but I’m finally coming to terms.  It’s totally futile.

[RpR]

What makes a winning team (I am leaving out pitchers)  an  often close knit group of players who year after year know what to expect  from each other.

Go look to see how many Twins from the 1987 team were still there in 1991, a goodly number.

How many Twins from the 2019 team are still there now?

Team fans have favorite players who they want to see, year, after year, after year; when a gaggle of strangers show up each year, fans stay away.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I'm certainly nervous, there aren't many FA signings so far I'm sorry the Twins missed out on.

I won't start to truly become nervous until Boegarts and/or Correa leave the board and neither are in a Minnesota uniform.

[RpR]

38 minutes ago, Beast said:

It’s the Twins.  Expecting anything different is on us at this point.

The merits of the strategy is a different conversation that can be debated.  I happen to think it’s a stupid strategy that has panned out for maybe 1 team in history (the Royals, which again is debatable).

You can get into all the chicken/egg revenue vs. spending vs. winning debates you want.  But, the bottom line is clear.  The Twins will not make the investment required to be a competitive team.  They need a slow-burn 10 year rebuild.  Even then, they need to basically win the lottery prospect-wise just to be a playoff contender again after those 10 years.  Throw in another monkey wrench: the lottery.  That is designed to help the “large market” teams and will only hurt small market teams over time.

This franchise is the walking dead.  There is zero chance of them ever making it back to, let alone, winning a World Series until the entire revenue/salary structure of the league is changed to be more like the NFL.

Frankly, it makes me sick.  I want to love this team so badly.  So many good memories and years spent investing.  But, as I get older and see the landscape - it’s just over.  Probably has been since ‘92, but I’m finally coming to terms.  It’s totally futile.

The head coach has been a problem since Tom Kelley left; he had bad years, but during his good years he made the most of it, he did  not get blown out by the Yankees and lose all play-off games.

[CRF]

It's still a little bit early, but there's been a lot of activity so far. Nothing by our FO. It's starting to look like...unless we somehow can resign CC, we're gonna get skunked. Then, we'll get the same old story about how they tried and made very competitive offers, but couldn't land who they wanted. Sad. 

[RpR]

26 minutes ago, CRF said:

It's still a little bit early, but there's been a lot of activity so far. Nothing by our FO. It's starting to look like...unless we somehow can resign CC, we're gonna get skunked. Then, we'll get the same old story about how they tried and made very competitive offers, but couldn't land who they wanted. Sad. 

Personally, I hope Wallner (IN AAA) shows he is the next Judge and Larnach shows he has Rosario's arm with out the screw-ups but beyond that, I would rather see the Twins pick-up veteran last chance players, than rookies show they should never leave AAA. (For Lewis to stay whole and show Big Show permanence would be nice also)

[weitz41]

No one we expected them to go after has signed yet. Lets not lit the torches just yet and put the pitch forks away. Technically it's only the third day of the offseason. As most say it doesn't start till the winter meetings. Boris Corp will drag this out as long as possible. So no matter how badly we want to open our presents under the tree. They will make us wait till it's Christmas day or later for that to happen. It's in their best interest. Clearing up the catcher situation and maybe a RH outfielder is what I had hoped they would tackle 1st. I don't expect much in the SP and reliever area until CC is settled.

[Aggies7]

Another fun year ahead of being a twins fan! How’s that bullpen coming along so far?

[ChermesZ]

7 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Another fun year ahead of being a twins fan! How’s that bullpen coming along so far?

We kept Pagan!

[rv78]

Seems to me it is typical Twins strategy at work again. Wait for the OTHER teams to set the market and then pick up whatever is left of the left-overs. Like Beast, I think this Franchise has lost all will to win a Championship and only looks at the bottom line. If anyone here thinks re-signing Correa as their BIG move this off-season, that it's is going to get them a Championship, they've got a surprise coming in the form of a major disappointment. Too many holes to fill and no urgency to fill them with quality players, and too many part-time players they expect big numbers from to carry this team. 

[RpR]

2 minutes ago, ChermesZ said:

We kept Pagan!

Twins version of  Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn, and look what he did for Cleveland!

[RpR]

1 minute ago, rv78 said:

Seems to me it is typical Twins strategy at work again. Wait for the OTHER teams to set the market and then pick up whatever is left of the left-overs. Like Beast, I think this Franchise has lost all will to win a Championship and only looks at the bottom line. If anyone here thinks re-signing Correa as their BIG move this off-season, that it's is going to get them a Championship, they've got a surprise coming in the form of a major disappointment. Too many holes to fill and no urgency to fill them with quality players, and too many part-time players they expect big numbers from to carry this team. 

It worked in 2019  ?

[nicksaviking]

After hearing Rodon's requirement of 6 years, there were no other free agents I really much cared for other than Correa and Bogaerts. Judge, deGrom and Verlander weren't coming here in any scenario.

If they get neither, I'll be disappointed, but I don't want free agents, just to have free agents. 

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Another fun year ahead of being a twins fan! How’s that bullpen coming along so far?

This is getting old. The Twins traded for the two best relievers available at the deadline, they didn't pitch well and the fans roasted them for it. What's the problem going with the strategy that worked last year, you know, turning the fringy starting prospects into relievers?

Veteran relievers who change teams are the most unreliable players on the roster. 

[Musk21]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

The head coach has been a problem since Tom Kelley left; he had bad years, but during his good years he made the most of it, he did  not get blown out by the Yankees and lose all play-off games.

The Twins completely missed the playoffs in Kelly's final 9 seasons, then made the playoffs in 6 out of the next 9 seasons.

[chpettit19]

25 minutes ago, Musk21 said:

The Twins completely missed the playoffs in Kelly's final 9 seasons, then made the playoffs in 6 out of the next 9 seasons.

Precisely. Didn't lose all playoff games in those last 9 seasons. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

The head coach has been a problem since Tom Kelley left; he had bad years, but during his good years he made the most of it, he did  not get blown out by the Yankees and lose all play-off games.

The Yankees weren't the Yankees until TK was well in to a nearly decade-long stretch of losing that any serious organization would have fired him for after 1996 at the latest.

[gil4]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

What makes a winning team (I am leaving out pitchers)  an  often close knit group of players who year after year know what to expect  from each other.

Go look to see how many Twins from the 1987 team were still there in 1991, a goodly number.

How many Twins from the 2019 team are still there now?

The 1991 team had 7 players from the 1987 team, four starters (Gagne, Gladden, Hrbek, and Puckett) and three bench players (Bush, Larkin, and Newman.)

From 2019, we have Buxton, Araez, Polanco, and Kepler. Cave and Duffy were still around. There are a couple of guys from that team who are still on the roster but are trying to have their arms reattached.

If that team had won a championship rather than flaming out, it might have bought some guys some more time (Sano) . 

2020 did cause some upheaval across baseball. 

With more pitchers on the roster, there tends to be more movement at the margins of the position players. (In today's game, would Bush, Larkin, and Newman have lasted 4 years with the team? 

How many players did the Astros still have from their last championship? (Legit question - the answer might go against my point.) 

[nicksaviking]

11 minutes ago, gil4 said:

 

How many players did the Astros still have from their last championship? (Legit question - the answer might go against my point.) 

Just Verlander, Altuve, Bregman, Gurriel and McCullers. Maybe there's an Al Newman caliber player I'm missing.

But to be fair to Bush, he was a really good player, who didn't really get much attention in an era where you only looked at batting average and HR. He probably would have stolen Max Kepler's job half a decade ago.

[Aggies7]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

This is getting old. The Twins traded for the two best relievers available at the deadline, they didn't pitch well and the fans roasted them for it. What's the problem going with the strategy that worked last year, you know, turning the fringy starting prospects into relievers?

Veteran relievers who change teams are the most unreliable players on the roster. 

Hey maybe we can trade duran the day before the season starts for another guy with TJ history and a past his “prime” reliever! Then after we blow numerous late leads, we can try to bolster the bullpen at the trade deadline. Cross our fingers and hope it works out!

[Aggies7]

I don’t believe for one second CC wants to stay here. Combination of money and a chance to win a ring will have him saying “see ya later” very soon. And I wouldn’t be the least bit upset about it.

[nicksaviking]

11 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Yes I agree it’s getting old going into another season with no bullpen answers as of yet. Hey maybe we can trade duran the day before the season starts for another guy with TJ history and a past his “prime” reliever! Then after we blow numerous late leads, we can try to bolster the bullpen at the trade deadline. Cross our fingers and hope it works out!

Why do you think free agent relievers aren't going to blow leads? These are not reliable players. If they were, they'd be starters.

Everyone wants the Rays pen but that's made up of homegrown players and random cast offs nobody else wanted. Hell, half of them were Twins at some point. Signing a reliever would be fine by me, but it could be 28-year-old Mariano Rivera and I still wouldn't feel comfortable with him on the mound with a one run lead. It's not a high priority for me because there is absolutely nothing the Twins or any front office could do to make me feel good about a bullpen.

[adorduan]

9 hours ago, RpR said:

What makes a winning team (I am leaving out pitchers)  an  often close knit group of players who year after year know what to expect  from each other.

Go look to see how many Twins from the 1987 team were still there in 1991, a goodly number.

How many Twins from the 2019 team are still there now?

Team fans have favorite players who they want to see, year, after year, after year; when a gaggle of strangers show up each year, fans stay away.

 

What makes a winning team is TALENT. Over 162 games talent wins over how much the players get a long. 

[Vanimal46]

7 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Hey maybe we can trade duran the day before the season starts for another guy with TJ history and a past his “prime” reliever! Then after we blow numerous late leads, we can try to bolster the bullpen at the trade deadline. Cross our fingers and hope it works out!

It’s sad that you consider yourself a diehard fan of the Twins. Have some faith, dude. The offseason has just begun. 

[howeda7]

This could be said about almost every Twins off-season in the Target Field era. If they're going to do nothing, I hope 2023 train wrecks sufficiently for Falvey to be fired. Nothing will improve until that happens. If the Pohlads would consider selling, even better. 

[Aggies7]

17 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

It’s sad that you consider yourself a diehard fan of the Twins. Have some faith, dude. The offseason has just begun. 

Isn’t it more sad that I’ve seen exactly 6 playoff wins in 30 years of watching this team? Let me say that again. 6. In 30 years of following this team. The mariners, who only this year broke a 20 year playoff drought, have many more wins over that timeframe.
 

Change that and I’ll have some faith.