The off season has begun for the Twins

[weitz41]

Most/All of these are yep that's what I expected. Some interesting comments.

Twins Decline Options On Bundy, Archer, Sano - MLB Trade Rumors

Carlos Correa Opts Out Of Twins Contract - MLB Trade Rumors

Twins To Pick Up Sonny Gray's Team Option - MLB Trade Rumors

[Vanimal46]

No surprises so far.

So long, Sano. I think he’s going to have a difficult time finding an MLB contract this offseason. May have to settle for a minor league deal with ST invite. 

I hope we didn’t take all of this time to rehab Archer only for him to pitch 140+ innings next season. 

Bundy did his job here. He was a serviceable back of the rotation arm that remained healthy. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him back at the right price. 

[weitz41]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

No surprises so far.

So long, Sano. I think he’s going to have a difficult time finding an MLB contract this offseason. May have to settle for a minor league deal with ST invite. 

I hope we didn’t take all of this time to rehab Archer only for him to pitch 140+ innings next season. 

Bundy did his job here. He was a serviceable back of the rotation arm that remained healthy. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him back at the right price. 

There were times Bundy was our best or most consistent starter. I'd be good with him returning if Meada or Ober end up in the pen as long relief.  Also love or hate Sano. I could see a low-end incentive filled contract from the Twins. Especially if the decline Urshela or trade him.

[Vanimal46]

16 minutes ago, weitz41 said:

Also love or hate Sano. I could see a low-end incentive filled contract from the Twins.

I will be shocked to be honest. I think this year was the final straw and Falvey is ready to move on. 

[stringer bell]

37 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

No surprises so far.

So long, Sano. I think he’s going to have a difficult time finding an MLB contract this offseason. May have to settle for a minor league deal with ST invite. 

I hope we didn’t take all of this time to rehab Archer only for him to pitch 140+ innings next season. 

Bundy did his job here. He was a serviceable back of the rotation arm that remained healthy. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him back at the right price. 

I agree that Bundy did his job here. However with his truly limited upside, I hope that the Twins don't pick him up at any price. They appear to have enough depth that they won't have someone like Bundy starting games this coming year. If they do, the season is probably over anyway. 

I don't know if Sano will get a major league contract or not, but he'll get a chance to show what he's got with someone. I don't think he'll ever make contact often enough to be a good offensive player.

I really wish that Archer could have built up more during 2022, but the Twins can't afford to have a guy that is guaranteed to go no more than five innings every time out. 

[stringer bell]

MLB Trade Rumors says that the deadline for finalizing rosters is November 15. That would mean that promotion to the 40-man roster of players the Twins want to protect will be done in the next eight days. The non-tender deadline is November 18, and the Twins will have to decide then if they want to non-tender any arbitration-eligible players. Stashak, Garlick and Pagan would all be in that category.

[weitz41]

47 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I will be shocked to be honest. I think this year was the final straw and Falvey is ready to move on. 

I get it. But the FO didn't give him that extension because of what they didn't like. There's something there they had hoped to capture. 1-3 mil with all kinds of bonus's making it a wash between declining next season and him earning it isn't out of the question. It seems highly unlikely but not impossible

 

19 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I agree that Bundy did his job here. However with his truly limited upside, I hope that the Twins don't pick him up at any price. They appear to have enough depth that they won't have someone like Bundy starting games this coming year. If they do, the season is probably over anyway. 

I don't know if Sano will get a major league contract or not, but he'll get a chance to show what he's got with someone. I don't think he'll ever make contact often enough to be a good offensive player.

I really wish that Archer could have built up more during 2022, but the Twins can't afford to have a guy that is guaranteed to go no more than five innings every time out. 

1st thing I'd like to get out of the way is I'm not a big fan on Bundy. Signed to be the last starter he IMO did his job and at times did it very well. Again it depends on what Meada and Ober do. If they continue to be limited in innings Bundy as our #5 would be a good thing. If not, he could be traded with prospects for an upgrade elsewhere.

[stringer bell]

17 minutes ago, weitz41 said:

 

1st thing I'd like to get out of the way is I'm not a big fan on Bundy. Signed to be the last starter he IMO did his job and at times did it very well. Again it depends on what Meada and Ober do. If they continue to be limited in innings Bundy as our #5 would be a good thing. If not, he could be traded with prospects for an upgrade elsewhere.

Sign him just to trade him? There are lots of other fish in the sea, many with a lot more upside than Dylan Bundy. 

[weitz41]

16 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

MLB Trade Rumors says that the deadline for finalizing rosters is November 15. That would mean that promotion to the 40-man roster of players the Twins want to protect will be done in the next eight days. The non-tender deadline is November 18, and the Twins will have to decide then if they want to non-tender any arbitration-eligible players. Stashak, Garlick and Pagan would all be in that category.

Stashak has been good when not injured. But good enough to hold a 40 man spot?

Garlick crushes lefties but not much else. Seems like someone you can upgrade with a FA

Pagan this one is dicey...3-4 mil for a decent RP is kind of a bargain. Now before anyone that reads this starts typing a response. Please ignore the 1st 1/2 and look at the stats after July 4th. Similar or better the Taylor Roger or Trevor May. NO, he shouldn't be pitching the 8th or 9th inning. If our wise FO and manager are stuck at 2 times through the order Pagan to finish the 5th or pitch the 6th at his cost makes some sense.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

4 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Sign him just to trade him? There are lots of other fish in the sea, many with a lot more upside than Dylan Bundy. 

Agreed, I really hope the FO signs or trades for a front of the rotation type pitcher.

if Sonny Gray is the best starting pitcher on the ‘23 team, it’ll be a lot like ‘22

[weitz41]

7 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Sign him just to trade him? There are lots of other fish in the sea, many with a lot more upside than Dylan Bundy. 

Sign him to be our #5 and if/when Meada or Ober can stay healthy...Which after last season seems like something you have to plan for the worst-case scenario. You can trade him at the deadline is we actually have a healthy season from most of our starters.

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

No surprises so far.

So long, Sano. I think he’s going to have a difficult time finding an MLB contract this offseason. May have to settle for a minor league deal with ST invite. 

I hope we didn’t take all of this time to rehab Archer only for him to pitch 140+ innings next season. 

Bundy did his job here. He was a serviceable back of the rotation arm that remained healthy. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him back at the right price. 

I can see Archer pitching 140+ for someone next year

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

MLB Trade Rumors says that the deadline for finalizing rosters is November 15. That would mean that promotion to the 40-man roster of players the Twins want to protect will be done in the next eight days. The non-tender deadline is November 18, and the Twins will have to decide then if they want to non-tender any arbitration-eligible players. Stashak, Garlick and Pagan would all be in that category.

Hard pass on Pagan

[stringer bell]

After consideration, I'd probably non-tender all three. Stashak has a small margin for error as a reliever. He suffered a significant injury and his recovery may or may not be complete.

Garlick is limited and 30 years old and Pagan hasn't been effective for several years. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

I can see Archer pitching 140+ for someone next year

I cannot, neither does fangraphs 

[ashbury]

18 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

I can see Archer pitching 140+ for someone next year

Some team's gonna say, "sure, we could settle for just 102 innings of 4.65 ERA, but we want 140!"?  :)

[Trov]

13 hours ago, stringer bell said:

MLB Trade Rumors says that the deadline for finalizing rosters is November 15. That would mean that promotion to the 40-man roster of players the Twins want to protect will be done in the next eight days. The non-tender deadline is November 18, and the Twins will have to decide then if they want to non-tender any arbitration-eligible players. Stashak, Garlick and Pagan would all be in that category.

Twins have a lot of decisions I think still to make in that department. They are down to 37 on the 40 man roster, this includes the 60 day IL guys coming back.  I think they will still want to protect more than 3 guys from rule 5.  I am pretty sure Garlick gets the non-tender.  Conteras most likely too.  I could see Sands, or Enlow if they felt they needed more room. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

My head will explode if the Twins bring back Bundy. No no no NO NONO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Give the ball to Varland, Winder, or Woods Richardson or literally anyone with some upside.

[Brock Beauchamp]

15 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

So long, Sano. I think he’s going to have a difficult time finding an MLB contract this offseason. May have to settle for a minor league deal with ST invite. 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he gets an MLB deal worth $2-3m from someone. If I was a crap team with no chance, I'd absolutely pay Sano in hopes he turns into July trade bait. There's very little to lose for a team like the Reds, Nationals, or A's.

[cHawk]

15 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Give the ball to Varland, Winder, or Woods Richardson or literally anyone with some upside.

I know the PERFECT solution

[RpR]

16 minutes ago, cHawk said:

I know the PERFECT solution

Also as a back-up catcher for Sanchez.

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he gets an MLB deal worth $2-3m from someone. If I was a crap team with no chance, I'd absolutely pay Sano in hopes he turns into July trade bait. There's very little to lose for a team like the Reds, Nationals, or A's.

I suppose that’s possible. He’s in the strange situation where to really catch on somewhere, he’s going to have to demonstrate that there is still upside left in his game. Over the last 3 seasons he’s shown zero upside. 

What’s the upside for a team like the Reds, Nationals, or A’s giving him MLB at bats for 3 months? He’s flipped for a low level prospect? That’s the challenge he’ll have this winter. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I suppose that’s possible. He’s in the strange situation where to really catch on somewhere, he’s going to have to demonstrate that there is still upside left in his game. Over the last 3 seasons he’s shown zero upside. 

What’s the upside for a team like the Reds, Nationals, or A’s giving him MLB at bats for 3 months? He’s flipped for a low level prospect? That’s the challenge he’ll have this winter. 

Yeah, the upside isn't great, either, but some of these teams have so little to lose on taking a flyer on someone like Sano that I think there's a good chance he's picked up by someone on an MLB contract.

[Shobae]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he gets an MLB deal worth $2-3m from someone. If I was a crap team with no chance, I'd absolutely pay Sano in hopes he turns into July trade bait. There's very little to lose for a team like the Reds, Nationals, or A's.

Yeah I think Sano will probably get that deal. He's going into his age 30 season so not like he's completely washed but given his injury history he will most likely be a bench bat. Though I could see some team trying to make him their project given his age and raw power. Though I have no clue if he's even fixable and what kind of upside they'd be looking for. Glad he's not our problem anymore though.

[Cris E]

Sano is a DH and pinch hit candidate, not a full player anymore.  If he can get his bat back and stay healthy he may get to put on the big glove again, but I'm not holding my breath. If he doesn't have a huge spring training he should expect to spend some time at AAA before he gets a chance at wearing a varsity uniform for anyone any time soon.

Pagan sounds smart, is upfront and honest when interviewed, has had success in the past and still throw mid-90s, He will get more chances. I'm with @weitz41 and would sign him to a sixth inning contract and let him try to work his way into later inning roles. He was over-exposed last year but is still better than a lot of those nameless itinerants that appeared in 2022. (ChiChi who?) 

My question is about Maeda. He was sent away from the Dodgers because he wanted to start and they thought he wasn't healthy enough to handle to the load. We got him and let him start, and everyone was right because he was very good and  promptly broke down hard.  His contract is still based around a lot of starting incentives so he's going to hate moving to the pen, but I think he'll be more effective and more likely to finish the season if he stays in the 7th-8th inning role. 

 

[IndianaTwin]

20 hours ago, weitz41 said:

There were times Bundy was our best or most consistent starter. I'd be good with him returning if Meada or Ober end up in the pen as long relief.  Also love or hate Sano. I could see a low-end incentive filled contract from the Twins. Especially if the decline Urshela or trade him.

For an extended time on Bundy. Over 14 starts from June 18 to September 4, he threw 72.1 innings with a 3.36 ERA and .629 OPS. For context, Ryan threw 75 innings over 14 starts from June 14 to Aug. 31, with a 4.80 ERA and .783 OPS.

A major difference, of course, is that Ryan is on the upside in his career (we hope) and Bundy is in the decline stage (we suspect). But if the question is spending $3.7M on Bundy vs. Pagan (Pagan's arbitration projection), I'll take Bundy. And for the reasons @weitz41 notes above, I'm not the Pagan-disliker that many on here are. 

With what Bundy got as a guarantee this year, $3-$4 million may be the best he'll get as an MLB offer. At this point, I think the roster spot is more valuable, however, so I wouldn't make that offer until later in the winter when we see how other pieces pan out.

And at that point, Bundy gets compared to the other leftovers that are out there, but I wouldn't be opposed to having him on the "perhaps" list at $3-$4 million. And if he doesn't get anything and has to settle for a minor league deal with incentives, I'm all over him.