Sano Replay

[purplesoldier4u]

Everybody is an expert.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, purplesoldier4u said:

Everybody is an expert.

That's why we love this site. So much to draw on!

[wsnydes]

2 hours ago, purplesoldier4u said:

Everybody is an expert.

Of course, this is the internet!

[yeahyabetcha]

3 hours ago, purplesoldier4u said:

Everybody is an expert.

Not everyone.  Just those that agree with my opinions.

[Number3]

On 4/12/2022 at 2:37 PM, chpettit19 said:

You make it sound like guys who could hit 30+ bombs a year have never had careers until the nerds got on their computers and saved Sano's career. Harmon Killebrew wasn't exactly hitting .300 every year. Guys with power have been seen as valuable for the entire history of major league baseball. If going 0-fer for a 4 game stretch means someone is a bad hitter we're going to need new players every season because I'd guess every hitter in the history of baseball has gone 0-fer a 4 game series at 1 point or another. 

You don't have to like Sano. Not telling you you should. As I said before, I don't like 3 true outcome hitters. But not liking him or the style of hitter he is doesn't make him a bad hitter, and he'd remain in the league no matter what era he was playing in. Mark McGwire also debuted at the age of 22 and was a .247 hitter through his age 28 season. Sano was a .238 hitter through his age 28 season. McGwire slugged .503 and Sano has slugged .491. Players who hit for power have always been looked at fondly. Shoot, Adam Dunn had a 14 year career hitting .237 in the early 2000s before the "analytics" took over.

My "Number 3" is respect to Harmon Killebrew and there is absolutely no comparison. Last year Sano hit your bench mark 30 homers and struck out 183 times a 6-1 ratio. Killebrew did strike out 145 times one year but hit 48 homers. I say again, this is Sano's make or break year and I am all for him doing well. The odds are against it and overall he does not contribute to winning baseball games. He is scary in the on deck circle but then he has to step into that darn batters box.

[mikelink45]

Don't worry, they brought in Sanchez to give him tips!

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, Number3 said:

My "Number 3" is respect to Harmon Killebrew and there is absolutely no comparison. Last year Sano hit your bench mark 30 homers and struck out 183 times a 6-1 ratio. Killebrew did strike out 145 times one year but hit 48 homers. I say again, this is Sano's make or break year and I am all for him doing well. The odds are against it and overall he does not contribute to winning baseball games. He is scary in the on deck circle but then he has to step into that darn batters box.

When Killebrew struck out 142 times in 1962 he lead the league. Ken Hubbs was second at 129. Eddie Bressoud third at 118. Bob Allison (2 Twins in the top 4, oh the horror!) was 4th at 115. Nobody else broke 110 and barely 10 guys struck out even 100 times in 1962. 

In 2021 when Sano set his personal record with 183 Ks he was 6th in the league. Joey Gallo struck out 213 times to lead the league with Matt Chapman joining him over 200 at 203. Sano hit 30 HRs, Gallo had 38, and Chapman had 27. So I say again, you're complaining about modern day baseball and you not liking the approach doesn't make Sano a bad hitter in the 21st century when by any measure of overall hitting he's an above average hitter. This is a make or break year for his $14M option being picked up, but not for him remaining in the league. Miguel Sano will continue to get jobs in major league baseball as long as he continues to have some of the best batted ball data in the entire league. You don't have to like it. I don't like the 3 true outcome approach. But that's modern baseball. You can complain about that, but when it comes to Sano you have to accept that he's an above average hitter in today's game because he slugs and gets on base. Killebrew was before his time, but when it comes to being strike out prone for his era Killebrew blows Sano out of the water. It isn't even close actually.

[GeorgiaBaller]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:33 AM, gunnarthor said:

The league avg last year was .245/.316/.415, 100 OPS+. He posted a 112 OPS+. His career OPS+ is 118. For comparison, Cuddyer's was 113 (and only 106 through the same age). He's an above avg bat. He's had issues staying healthy and his defense is bad.

I think he's looked good in the couple games I've seen, leads the team in walks and has had some hard hits right at people. As others have noted, he strikes out way too much but his career babip is .327, which is really good. 16 PA is way too early to worry. He struggled so much early last year, and pitching really dominated MLB last year, that people don't really realize how strong his last four months were - .252/.330/.503. 

Sano is a below avg fielder at any position.  Cuddyer is not a gold standard, he was an above average hitter, but a reliable fielder.  I endlessly hear the drumbeat of "look what he did for this stretch".  He was above average for a 3 1/2 month stretch.  So great! Not.  Sano has had 2 pretty respectable years at the plate during his entire career.  His entire career he has been a liability in the field.  He has also been prone to injury and not available to the team for stretches of almost every season.  Injuries are a fact, but more aggravating with Sano because he does not maintain his conditioning every year.  He will in spots, but the years he comes into camp in good shape, he gains weight thru the regular season.  The crux of ability is Avail-ability.

His only team contribution is at the plate.  The majority of his career he has been minus Runs Above Average and -18 for his career.  He averages 23 HR's a year, has hit 30 twice in seven seasons with 34 being his highest output.  Power? I don't think anyone classifies  Brian Dozier as a Power Hitter, like they do Sano. He was a better than average fielder and their career overlapped, same team, so they played in the same conditions and overall faced the same pitchers. Dozier averaged 21 HR's a season and had a 34 and and 42HR season in a comparable time period. Dozier was +8.7 runs above average for his career.  Games played in 7 years for each?674 for Sano, 955 for Dozier.

If Sano is not consistently above average at the plate---and I would argue he needs to be excellent in many aspects at the plate to be a one dimensional player.  Would anyone have argued to make Brian Dozier a DH if he could not play 2nd for some reason?  Or if he was just pain awful there?

Sano has his apologists that will always stick up for him---but from a baseball standpoint---I just don't see it.

[gunnarthor]

9 minutes ago, GeorgiaBaller said:

Sano is a below avg fielder at any position.  Cuddyer is not a gold standard, he was an above average hitter, but a reliable fielder.  I endlessly hear the drumbeat of "look what he did for this stretch".  He was above average for a 3 1/2 month stretch.  So great! Not.  Sano has had 2 pretty respectable years at the plate during his entire career.  His entire career he has been a liability in the field.  He has also been prone to injury and not available to the team for stretches of almost every season.  Injuries are a fact, but more aggravating with Sano because he does not maintain his conditioning every year.  He will in spots, but the years he comes into camp in good shape, he gains weight thru the regular season.  The crux of ability is Avail-ability.

His only team contribution is at the plate.  The majority of his career he has been minus Runs Above Average and -18 for his career.  He averages 23 HR's a year, has hit 30 twice in seven seasons with 34 being his highest output.  Power? I don't think anyone classifies  Brian Dozier as a Power Hitter, like they do Sano. He was a better than average fielder and their career overlapped, same team, so they played in the same conditions and overall faced the same pitchers. Dozier averaged 21 HR's a season and had a 34 and and 42HR season in a comparable time period. Dozier was +8.7 runs above average for his career.  Games played in 7 years for each?674 for Sano, 955 for Dozier.

If Sano is not consistently above average at the plate---and I would argue he needs to be excellent in many aspects at the plate to be a one dimensional player.  Would anyone have argued to make Brian Dozier a DH if he could not play 2nd for some reason?  Or if he was just pain awful there?

Sano has his apologists that will always stick up for him---but from a baseball standpoint---I just don't see it.

Sano has been a solid player, even with his defensive liabilities. So the reason I picked Cuddy was because 1) he was a well regarded prospect (#17 his last year on the lists) and 2) defensive stats hated him (-15 dWAR for his career)*. I compared the two through Sano's age 29 season. Cuddy, through the same year (meaning his full season v. 6 games for Sano), was a solid player but not as good as Sano. Part of that problem is that pitching has dominated hitting the last few years so good hitting isn't as obvious. Sano posted a .778 OPS last year, which is a 118 OPS+. Cuddy posted a .779 OPS in 04 which was only worth 100 OPS+. Heck, Sano's stat line last year was very close to his stat line in 2016 but his OPS+ that year was only 108.

Dozier was a better player in his prime years (ages 27-30, two of which Sano hasn't played yet) but I would disagree that people didn't classify him as a power hitter. They very much did. I'm not sure why people are always so anti-Sano. Some of it was because he was supposed to be the next Cabrera and win HR titles and he hasn't done that. Part of it is because he strikes out a lot. There are other reasons. But, from a baseball standpoint, he's been an above avg bat. And by the end of the year, his 2022 will probably look a lot like his 2021 - 30+ HR, solid OPS+, bad defense, 130 or so games.

* How much you want to credit defensive stats in both accurately measuring and accurately valuating defense is up to you. I tend to ignore dWAR except for up the middle defenders and third and ignore UZR for OFers but to each their own.

[Vanimal46]

My hope is we only have a limited amount of time left to either complain or defend Sano. He’s in the last year of his contract and there’s no way in hell he’s receiving the 2023 option year. 

This is who he is. And I’ve got a feeling he’ll drop off quickly, like Chris Davis, where he becomes a complete liability in every facet of the game. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he’s a salary dump in July. 

[tony&rodney]

I'm still a fan of Sano but it would seem like a different approach is possible, although I would exclaim also that this could be very difficult. 

[CharlieH]

I have say he has gotten better recognizing outside pitches but he has a hard telling where his zone is. My advice is to concentrate hitting the ball. 

I know it sounds easy but slow his swing down until he can make contact at least 50% or more. The more times he misses the more he looks bewildered. 

If he'd try this during batting practice he would improve. Quit trying to swing for the fences. 

When he came up he did hit the ball. 

[randall]

SORRY.  Sano is the most consistant player on team,  Consistantly inconsistant, Other players on team would improve this slot.