Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

GAME THREAD 8/9/2020: Minnesota Twins @ Kansas City Royals 1:05 CDT

Diesel

By Diesel
in Archived Game Threads

Recommended Posts

ashbury GOAT

ashbury

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Oh FFS. Another single off an outside pitch, defeating the shift. Ash out. Maybe I'll check in again in an hour.

  • Replies 250
  • Created
  • Last Reply
rickybeathard College Ball

rickybeathard

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

This Royals series has been brutal to watch. Every game has been very winnable, but our pitching has been atrocious. Combine that with spots of the lineup being completely unable to get on base, it's some of the most frustrating baseball to watch. 

 

And yeah, I'm kind of over Bremer calling Berrios our ace. He's not, and hasn't looked like an ace since spring early summer last year. 

h2oface Wichita Wind Surge

h2oface

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Mark of a good pitcher - your team scores to tie or go ahead in the top of the inning, you shut the other team down with a goose egg in the bottom of the inning.

twins1095 College Ball

twins1095

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Another hit through the shift.

There are hits through or not through the shift. The shift just places defenders where hitters hit it most. Individual instances of hits happening or even bunches of hits happening means nothing.

 

Further, I’d argue that was a Sano defensive mistake not realizing that Arraez had shifted behind the base. Sano backed away on that one after making a couple of mistakes being overly aggressive. Growing pains of learning the position. If Sano even gloves that, there’s no run that inning.

 

That said, shifting your defense in that extreme of a manner and then pitching Soler low and away in such a way that if he does hit it’s virtually impossible not to go through that side of the infield seems questionable. Error from Avila/Berrios.

 

So really three issues on that play, arguing against the shift is one of the dumbest things you could ever do. However, execution could have been much better.

 

Further, the real issue is a lead off 4 pitch walk to put a fast guy on ahead of Soler. So that’s a 4th mistake. Again, arguing about the shift is just a sign of not getting it

USAFChief GOAT

USAFChief

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted
Posted

 

Mark of a good pitcher - your team scores to tie or go ahead in the top of the inning, you shut the other team down with a goose egg in the bottom of the inning.

At the least, don't walk the leadoff hitter.

LVTwinsfan FCL Twins

LVTwinsfan

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Mark of a good pitcher - your team scores to tie or go ahead in the top of the inning, you shut the other team down with a goose egg in the bottom of the inning.

I wouldn’t necessarily say Berrios is not a good pitcher, but the referencing of him as an “ace” has got to stop.
USAFChief GOAT

USAFChief

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted
Posted

 

There are hits through or not through the shift. The shift just places defenders where hitters hit it most. Individual instances of hits happening or even bunches of hits happening means nothing.

Further, I’d argue that was a Sano defensive mistake not realizing that Arraez had shifted behind the base. Sano backed away on that one after making a couple of mistakes being overly aggressive. Growing pains of learning the position. If Sano even gloves that, there’s no run that inning.

That said, shifting your defense in that extreme of a manner and then pitching Soler low and away in such a way that if he does hit it’s virtually impossible not to go through that side of the infield seems questionable. Error from Avila/Berrios.

So really three issues on that play, arguing against the shift is one of the dumbest things you could ever do. However, execution could have been much better.

Further, the real issue is a lead off 4 pitch walk to put a fast guy on ahead of Soler. So that’s a 4th mistake. Again, arguing about the shift is just a sign of not getting it

A couple points:

 

Individual hits, no. But "bunches of hits?" Then you're no longer putting your defenders where they're hitting it. That might not be coincidence.

 

Sano took a step or two toward the ground ball, and gave up when he decided he couldn't get to it. I'm pretty confident he knew where Arraez was positioned and that had nothing to do with it.

 

That was an attempt to K Solar, but yeah, down and away it was a good piece of hitting, and would only go to the right side.

 

And let's refrain from calling others "dumb," please. 

twins1095 College Ball

twins1095

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Bunches of hits, as in multiple instances over a small sample size. The Twins are positioning based on a much better indicator of likelihood of hitting.

 

I didn’t call anyone dumb, I said it’s a dumb argument to make. Dumb/bad/flawed argument/idea =/= dumb /bad/flawed person.

 

I don’t think the poster is dumb, I think the argument is dumb... not anything to do with the person posting it... didn’t even look at the name of the poster.

 

If you disagree that it’s a bad and flawed argument... please show me the evidence on the contrary.

Don Walcott FCL Twins

Don Walcott

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

Bunches of hits, as in multiple instances over a small sample size. The Twins are positioning based on a much better indicator of likelihood of hitting.

I didn’t call anyone dumb, I said it’s a dumb argument to make. Dumb/bad/flawed argument/idea =/= dumb /bad/flawed person.

I don’t think the poster is dumb, I think the argument is dumb... not anything to do with the person posting it... didn’t even look at the name of the poster.

If you disagree that it’s a bad and flawed argument... please show me the evidence on the contrary.

I think everyone understands the shift. At least everyone posting here on Game Threads.

 

To say someone's argument is dumb, but the person isn't dumb is kind of like saying the poster isn't condescending, but this post is really condescending.

Nine of twelve Wichita Wind Surge

Nine of twelve

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

Yes. Nebraska.

Tried unsuccessfully to find this on YouTube--

There was a scene from a Mash episode in which Col. Potter threatened Maj. Winchester with a sentence to Leavenworth. Winchester said, " Leavenworth...(alarmed expression)...My God, that's in Kansas!"

USAFChief GOAT

USAFChief

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted
Posted

 

Bunches of hits, as in multiple instances over a small sample size. The Twins are positioning based on a much better indicator of likelihood of hitting.

I didn’t call anyone dumb, I said it’s a dumb argument to make. Dumb/bad/flawed argument/idea =/= dumb /bad/flawed person.

I don’t think the poster is dumb, I think the argument is dumb... not anything to do with the person posting it... didn’t even look at the name of the poster.

If you disagree that it’s a bad and flawed argument... please show me the evidence on the contrary.

Well, for example, Dozier punched a 2 run single through the shift in the first inning. Against a RH pitcher. It was Dozier's first AB of the season. What better indicator of hitting were the Twins using? Last year? 

 

Shifts are in vogue, and in many cases, will probably be here for a while. But IMO they're being overused. Not every situation calls for a shift, nor every hitter against every pitcher. 

 

These are opinions, of course. There's no easily provable right or wrong answer. One can argue about probabilities and likelihoods, but there's zero doubt shifting has hurt the Twins in this specific game. I would like to see smarter usage. Drawn in infield, for example. Makes no sense to shift, if you ask me, particularly when your out pitch to a RH hitter is a slider down and away.

twins1095 College Ball

twins1095

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

I think everyone understands the shift. At least everyone posting here on Game Threads.

 

To say someone's argument is dumb, but the person isn't dumb is kind of like saying the poster isn't condescending, but this post is really condescending.

I guess agree to disagree. I also don’t think that’s a comparison that makes sense. However, if the word choice is bothersome than I would say that it’s a flawed or bad argument to make and not a dumb one. I don’t think the poster is bad or flawed, but I think that statement is bad or flawed. I disagree with the premise and think it would lead to more harm than good.

 

I apologize for using that word choice and can see how it came off in a certain way that is not needed for a game thread among fans of the same team. Also, no need to derail from the game and the game has moved on.

twins1095 College Ball

twins1095

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Well, for example, Dozier punched a 2 run single through the shift in the first inning. Against a RH pitcher. It was Dozier's first AB of the season. What better indicator of hitting were the Twins using? Last year?

 

Shifts are in vogue, and in many cases, will probably be here for a while. But IMO they're being overused. Not every situation calls for a shift, nor every hitter against every pitcher.

 

These are opinions, of course. There's no easily provable right or wrong answer. One can argue about probabilities and likelihoods, but there's zero doubt shifting has hurt the Twins in this specific game. I would like to see smarter usage. Drawn in infield, for example. Makes no sense to shift, if you ask me, particularly when your out pitch to a RH hitter is a slider down and away.

Fair point. Cheers. I shouldn’t be so quick to jump out so strongly.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund

You all care about this site. The next step is caring for it. We’re asking you to caretake this site so it can remain the premier Twins community on the internet.

Become a Caretaker

  • Member Statistics

    20,445
    Total Members
    48,845
    Most Online
    JakaBasej05
    Newest Member
    JakaBasej05
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...