Still waiting...

[FormerMinnasotan]

It’s pathetic the Twins haven’t done anything to this point. Unless José Berríos all of a sudden turns into a top ace type pitcher we still need a better #1 than him. Our “championship” window is wide open and predictablely Flavine is just sitting around NOT improving the team. Sorry Graterol, Balazovic, or Duran are not going to be an ace within their first few years in the Bigs. So...we actually need to sign or trade for a starter who’s BETTER than Berríos (who is really a #2/3 starter) if we truly want to contend.

[laloesch]

 

Who would want to live in Houston? Hot as hell, dirty town, nothing much to do. They get guys. 

 

It is just as big of a hinderance to play in sweltering heat as it is to have to show your face some when its cold. 

 

PS Chicago is almost the same temp-wise as Minneapolis. The Cubs never have problems getting Free Agents to sign. 

 

Wonder why that is? Can anyone figure it out?

I don't disagree but it's kinda a bad rep. thing and the Twins have that.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

I don't disagree but it's kinda a bad rep. thing and the Twins have that.

 

AGREE!!

 

Years and years of not adding, not going for it, cheaping out + the weather is hard to shake. 

[MMMordabito]

 

I know there's a lot of time left, but I am nervous that the Twins will do something like trade for Boyd and act like they made a huge improvement to the rotation.

It's time. I'd voice loudly that they need to do something, but I'm not sure exactly what moves might be available to them.

This will be interesting...

 

bWar shows that Boyd would be a huge improvement over Gibson or Perez based on last season.  I hope that's not all they do, but I would welcome a trade for Boyd and his full set of arb years.

[sorney]

There is literally zero reason (ok, literally is probably strong) for the Twins to NOT overpay for a pitcher.  Their window is now. Baseball took in over $10B in revenue.  The owners have money.  Pay for talent.  That's how it works.

 

[big dog]

 

There is literally zero reason (ok, literally is probably strong) for the Twins to NOT overpay for a pitcher.  Their window is now. Baseball took in over $10B in revenue.  The owners have money.  Pay for talent.  That's how it works.

Given the contracts that have just been handed out, I'm not even sure what "overpay" means anymore.  We also need think about the best way to overpay, since literally everyone could be a candidate for that.

 

Would I consider handing out 5/$100-120?  Sure, gotta take that seriously.  What if the market in the last week for the same guy became 7/$200? Do I just automatically overpay? I have no idea where I need to stop, but it has to be somewhere.  I think there is at least some reason to believe that (not zero).

 

I'd probably rather find a younger guy that I thought I could bank on and overpay with 5/$75 instead of 5/$50, and maybe do two of those.  Or three. Use either free agent money or prospects.

 

I don't think I'd overpay to beat the Yankees for Cole, except it would be fun to try and see how far I could drive them up.

 

The owners took in $10B, but it wasn't split very equally.  I don't see how this team can afford to tie up $200 million in one pitcher, especially any of the names remaining.  I don't know where I stop being willing to overpay, but I do have to stop somewhere.

 

[MMMordabito]

As far as the Twins go, MLBTR is behaving like that girl at the bar that gives you the doe eyes, allow you to buy her a couple drinks and then quickly runs off with her friends.  There's an NSFTD term for it, I believe. Anyway, it's annoying reading the "The Twins are interested in ...." -> Buh-bye and "The Twins are looking at ....." -> Buh-bye.

[howeda7]

 

False. The weather sucks there too. That is what people are talking about all the time right?

 

More crime? Highest murder rate in the nation? What exactly is so much better about Chicago?

I also read how people are fleeing CA due to taxes etc. But we can't possibly get a top FA to sign here. Not once. Not ever.

[howeda7]

 

It's becoming pretty clear that the front office is leaking stuff like this to local reporters about Bumgarner and Ryu so they have an excuse when they don't sign them.  And in response both player's camps have leaked to national reporters that they would come to Minnesota if the money is right. I'm guessing neither guy has us at the top of their list, but either would come here if the money is right.

 

In a few days we'll hear about how they loved the organization but they just wanted to stay on the West Coast, or go to a bigger city, or be closer to home, etc. And then they'll try to pretend that is the reason we didn't sign them and not the fact that our offer was for 20% less than the winning one.

I'm not big on "the Twins are saying this for PR" normally, but I'm starting to think this is true.

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Word is money is not the issue with Bumgarner it's the location aka nobody wants to live and play in Minnesota even if it isn't all year round.  And who can blame him.  Would you want to move from California to Minnesota?  Same thing every year. 

 

I'd move from Oakland or SF to MN. In fact I already have. Have you been to SF in the last ten years? It's a dump now.

[Vanimal46]

How hot does the iron need to be while the window is open? And if the weather is like it is today, does that cool said iron too much to strike?

It would help if Falvine plugged in the iron first...

[jud6312]

 

It would help if Falvine plugged in the iron first...

 

You don't sign the Matt Wislers of the world by running up the electric bill.

[jud6312]

 

As far as the Twins go, MLBTR is behaving like that girl at the bar that gives you the doe eyes, allow you to buy her a couple drinks and then quickly runs off with her friends.  There's an NSFTD term for it, I believe. Anyway, it's annoying reading the "The Twins are interested in ...." -> Buh-bye and "The Twins are looking at ....." -> Buh-bye.

 

They may not leave the Hot Stove Tavern with an 8, 9 or 10, but  maybe they can land 3 or 4 twos.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Given the contracts that have just been handed out, I'm not even sure what "overpay" means anymore.  We also need think about the best way to overpay, since literally everyone could be a candidate for that.

 

Would I consider handing out 5/$100-120?  Sure, gotta take that seriously.  What if the market in the last week for the same guy became 7/$200? Do I just automatically overpay? I have no idea where I need to stop, but it has to be somewhere.  I think there is at least some reason to believe that (not zero).

 

I'd probably rather find a younger guy that I thought I could bank on and overpay with 5/$75 instead of 5/$50, and maybe do two of those.  Or three. Use either free agent money or prospects.

 

I don't think I'd overpay to beat the Yankees for Cole, except it would be fun to try and see how far I could drive them up.

 

The owners took in $10B, but it wasn't split very equally.  I don't see how this team can afford to tie up $200 million in one pitcher, especially any of the names remaining.  I don't know where I stop being willing to overpay, but I do have to stop somewhere.

What younger guy that you could bank on is signing a FA deal for 5/50 (or 5/75 after "overpay")? Or what such guy is getting dealt to us before signing that deal? If they're any good at all, and they're willing to sign a long term reasonable contract, the prospect cost could be enormous. (And guys probably aren't too eager to sign long-term deals with unfamiliar organizations, if they don't have to.)

 

The overpay for the Wheeler range (20%) looks manageable, if we like those pitchers. Nobody is jumping up from $100 mil expected contracts to $200 mil.

[howeda7]

They should have been offering MadBaum 5/$100-120 on day 1.He'd be a Twin now. It didn't take great foresight to see that he'd be a fallback option to whoever didn't get Cole/Strasburg and we'd get shoved aside. 

[drivlikejehu]

 

They should have been offering MadBaum 5/$100-120 on day 1.He'd be a Twin now. It didn't take great foresight to see that he'd be a fallback option to whoever didn't get Cole/Strasburg and we'd get shoved aside. 

 

This makes zero sense. If everyone knew he was a backup option for various clubs, why on Earth would he sign before the higher options came off the board? Unless you think his agent is the only person on the planet not to realize this? But obviously, he and his agent did know, and this situation is very typical in free agency.

 

Making the first offer would have made zero difference for the Twins, especially since everyone knew they weren't involved with the bigger names. 

 

These are the type of false claims that are constantly thrown around to bash the Twins front office, despite being ludicrous on their face. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

This makes zero sense. If everyone knew he was a backup option for various clubs, why on Earth would he sign before the higher options came off the board? Unless you think his agent is the only person on the planet not to realize this? But obviously, he and his agent did know, and this situation is very typical in free agency.

 

Making the first offer would have made zero difference for the Twins, especially since everyone knew they weren't involved with the bigger names. 

 

These are the type of false claims that are constantly thrown around to bash the Twins front office, despite being ludicrous on their face.

 

Are you sure “lucidrous on its face” is the phrase you are after? Sounds kind of harsh, no?

 

An early, serious offer (or almost offer) signals genuine interest. Did the Twins make such a gesture? Do you really believe Bumgarner’s camp knew when Strasburg or Cole would sign?

[howeda7]

 

This makes zero sense. If everyone knew he was a backup option for various clubs, why on Earth would he sign before the higher options came off the board? Unless you think his agent is the only person on the planet not to realize this? But obviously, he and his agent did know, and this situation is very typical in free agency.

 

Making the first offer would have made zero difference for the Twins, especially since everyone knew they weren't involved with the bigger names. 

 

These are the type of false claims that are constantly thrown around to bash the Twins front office, despite being ludicrous on their face. 

They surely knew that the # of teams would go up after the big 2 signed, but they didn't know when that would occur. It happened fast. But based on the last two years it could have been mid-January.

 

And 2 weeks ago, we were hearing 4/$80 for MadBaum. If they come in with 5/$110, was he going to turn it down and take his chances? I'd wager not.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

They should have been offering MadBaum 5/$100-120 on day 1.He'd be a Twin now. It didn't take great foresight to see that he'd be a fallback option to whoever didn't get Cole/Strasburg and we'd get shoved aside.

 

Your sentiment is spot-on.

 

Obviously Bumgarner’s side knew he wouldn’t get Strasburg/Cole money. On the other hand, Wheeler signed for 5/118 a week ago. The Twins then could have come right after and offered Bumgarner just a bit more than Wheeler made. I think it would have gotten donthis would be over and done with

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

They surely knew that the # of teams would go up after the big 2 signed, but they didn't know when that would occur. It happened fast. But based on the last two years it could have been mid-January.

 

And 2 weeks ago, we were hearing 4/$80 for MadBaum. If they come in with 5/$110, was he going to turn it down and take his chances? I'd wager not.

You beat me to it.

[h2oface]

 

This makes zero sense. If everyone knew he was a backup option for various clubs, why on Earth would he sign before the higher options came off the board? Unless you think his agent is the only person on the planet not to realize this? But obviously, he and his agent did know, and this situation is very typical in free agency.

 

Making the first offer would have made zero difference for the Twins, especially since everyone knew they weren't involved with the bigger names. 

 

These are the type of false claims that are constantly thrown around to bash the Twins front office, despite being ludicrous on their face. 

 

I totally disagree. Very often a strong initial offer early in the hot stove season lands a player (Gibson is an example this year). The market is a total question at that point, and with the history of the last couple of years, the position becomes that's what I want, the risk of waiting is over. Many beneath the top tier last year declined good multi year offers (albeit no over pays - Grandal) and ended up with one year contracts (Moustakas) or no contract (Keuchel/Kimbrel). 

 

I respect your opinion, but to say the pervious poster's opinion is ludicrous is......... well...... 

[sweetmusicviola16]

In the 2010 off season Jayson Werth was an FA. One of the top ones. Washington gave him a 7/122 deal. It was considered at the time a quite hefty overpay and the last 3 years of the deal Werth really wasn't that good. certainly not warranting 21mil per. But the Nat's at that time needed to overpay to draw any elite players. No one wanted to play for Washington. But the saw their oppurtunity to contend was coming and the need to overpay to take advantage of it.

 

I'm not saying to overpay on madbum or Ryu, I see issues with both and am leery of both. Of the guys that are left Rendon would be the one that I would do as the Nats did with Werth. Wheeler is the guy this season that I would have also overpaid on, who the Twins would have actually been able to compete for. Rendon might get another Cole or Stras deal in the end.

[sweetmusicviola16]

Tanner Roark signing with Toronto. This is good as the Jays have been rumored to be in on these remaining SP's and Roark was one guy I was concerned could become a Twin against my wishes.

[akmanak]

The Twins are not going to make any blockbuster moves. It really is unbelievable how every year this board thinks that they will. The owners do no care about this team.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I totally disagree. Very often a strong initial offer early in the hot stove season lands a player (Gibson is an example this year).

 

Good example with Gibson. Wheeler is also a good example. And two years ago Darvish was made a big offer by the Yankees early in free agency, and eventually settled for an offer not as high as that one.

[howeda7]

 

The Twins are not going to make any blockbuster moves. It really is unbelievable how every year this board thinks that they will. The owners do no care about this team.

I blame this on the front office. If the Twins go into next season with a $105 million payroll instead of $135, it's because Falvey chose not spend $, not because he wasn't allowed to.

[big dog]

 

What younger guy that you could bank on is signing a FA deal for 5/50 (or 5/75 after "overpay")? Or what such guy is getting dealt to us before signing that deal? If they're any good at all, and they're willing to sign a long term reasonable contract, the prospect cost could be enormous. (And guys probably aren't too eager to sign long-term deals with unfamiliar organizations, if they don't have to.)

 

The overpay for the Wheeler range (20%) looks manageable, if we like those pitchers. Nobody is jumping up from $100 mil expected contracts to $200 mil.

 

Baumgarten isn't signing for $100 million any more, I'm guessing.  I bet $120 doesn't get it done when it's all over.

 

Re: young pitchers- nobody said this would be easy.  If it were easy, anyone could do it.  The only easy thing is to have all the money in the world and pay someone $35 million a year while adding superstars all around him. Rendon/Ohtani/Trout/Pujols?  Any four Yankees? They pay Hicks a ton, lose him for all sorts of time, and don't blink.  Missing Stanton?  It's only money.  And the poor Red Sox, who can't keep four such guys and might have to settle for three.  We can't buy the stars they can, that's the way it goes.

 

Sign younger guys, get a bunch, hope a few of them work out.  That's gone well with hitters, but we have had all sorts of problems with highly-drafted pitchers.  We have to keep digging through the piles of other teams.  I'm not ignoring second-tier guys; Ryu for $125 million?  Maybe.  People have raised a lot of reasonable concerns about MadBum.  Nothing's a sure bet but I think we need to stress bodies with potential rather than one body with a past.  Just my 4.5 cents.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Baumgarten isn't signing for $100 million any more, I'm guessing.  I bet $120 doesn't get it done when it's all over.

Well, your previous post suggested $100 mil guys were getting $200 mil. That's not happening; I don't think that's ever happened. And $100 mil guys getting $120 mil isn't a big deal -- that's how competitive markets work. (And I'd be mildly surprised if Bumgarner topped $120 mil, at least by much.)

 

 

Sign younger guys, get a bunch, hope a few of them work out. 

Again, there are no younger guys to sign as FA. You have to trade for them first. How much are you willing to give up in trade? And who exactly are you targeting here? Is Jon Gray "young" enough? Although he's close enough to FA that I suspect he's not signing a reasonable extension (Cole didn't). Zac Gallen would have been nice, but he's gone already -- the Marlins leftover pitchers may be your only options for this strategy right now. Are any of them worth it?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The only easy thing is to have all the money in the world and pay someone $35 million a year while adding superstars all around him. Rendon/Ohtani/Trout/Pujols?

FYI, Ohtani only cost $22.3 mil.

[howeda7]

Twins baseball...waiting for a tomorrow that never comes.