Can we please be done with Robbie Grossman?

[FormerMinnasotan]

Looks like Robbie Grossman is Molly’s Nick Punto. A below average ball player who’s given more love than what he deserves.

[old nurse]

 

Defense.... And running... Not just hitting.

 

 

Except Gomez can play defense...

Gomez's defense has slipped.Fangraphs overall defense rating does not like him. UZR150 doesn't like him. DRS does. .  Fond memories of yesteryear are just that. To think that Gomez's fielding would overcome anemic hitting is about as equally untenable position as expecting Grossman to improve his hitting from his breakout season and finally be a decent fielder. If the Twins had signed Gomez rather than Morrison the ghost of Gomez past would haunt him on these boards. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Gomez's defense has slipped.Fangraphs overall defense rating does not like him. UZR150 doesn't like him. DRS does. . Fond memories of yesteryear are just that. To think that Gomez's fielding would overcome anemic hitting is about as equally untenable position as expecting Grossman to improve his hitting from his breakout season and finally be a decent fielder. If the Twins had signed Gomez rather than Morrison the ghost of Gomez past would haunt him on these boards.

Gomez has still been a mostly exclusive CF, up until 2018. It is quite possible his metrics get a boost now that he has moved to a corner.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Gomez's defense has slipped.Fangraphs overall defense rating does not like him. UZR150 doesn't like him. DRS does. .  Fond memories of yesteryear are just that. To think that Gomez's fielding would overcome anemic hitting is about as equally untenable position as expecting Grossman to improve his hitting from his breakout season and finally be a decent fielder. If the Twins had signed Gomez rather than Morrison the ghost of Gomez past would haunt him on these boards. 

 

of course, I'm comparing him to Grossman....not LOMO.....this is about the OF, right?

[USAFChief]

Gomez's defense has slipped.Fangraphs overall defense rating does not like him. UZR150 doesn't like him. DRS does. .  Fond memories of yesteryear are just that. To think that Gomez's fielding would overcome anemic hitting is about as equally untenable position as expecting Grossman to improve his hitting from his breakout season and finally be a decent fielder. If the Twins had signed Gomez rather than Morrison the ghost of Gomez past would haunt him on these boards.

 

The first rule of holes: when you find yourself in one, stop digging.

[old nurse]

 

 

I’ll take Gomez’ season to date, and definitely his season going forward.

For one thing, he doesn’t derive all his value from walks. He could be playing CF right now, without a lot of defensive drop off, for one thing, with the added benefit of Kepler still in RF.

BTW, have you seen much of Grossman’s play.

The memory of Gomez's defense could play CF, His play in CF last year left him with a fringe contract this year. and a signing well after spring training had started.

[wsnydes]

 

The memory of Gomez's defense could play CF, His play in CF last year left him with a fringe contract this year. and a signing well after spring training had started.

They don't need him to play CF.  They need him to be a player off the bench that can play the corners.  That's not something that Grossman has ever been able to do competently.  

 

I have a hard time trusting any defensive metric that claims that Robbie Grossman is a better defender than Carlos Gomez.  

[old nurse]

 

 

The first rule of holes: when you find yourself in one, stop digging.

Second rule is don't throw dirt on others as a means to hide what you can not defend.  There is a great difference in what Gomez was versus what he has become.  There is a reason he was  available.  Gomez now versus  Grossman is an argument over which below average player do you want.   The statistics from the gurus over at fangraphs says  there would be very little difference despite the ultra poor defense by Grossman.  You can have an opinion. The hole you created is that there is nothing but past memories to justify it.

 

[Linus]

Grossman should be done. His OBP is “empty” meaning he will take a called third strike in hopes of walking. The book is out on him so I don’t think he will ever attain the high OPB again

[Twins33]

Last 446 PA: .232/.336/.369 with little to no defense. Yeah, I'm good with going to Wade or someone else.

 

Lamarre should already be out there over him though that's not happening. Lamarre's defense, though he doesn't seem to know what a cutoff man is, has been better (eye test only). And even though he's only hit singles so far he's also shown more offensively in a smaller sample size.

[tvagle]

Can we please be done with Robbie Grossman?

 

I'll give you 2 reasons the Twins haven't moved on from RG:

 

A Million & Another Million

 

Should have moved on when the contract could have been dropped for much less than the $2 Million tied to RG now and that my friends is just Gross Man!

[howieramone2]

 

Grossman needs to be let go as soon as Buxton comes back. LaMarre or Wade can be the 4th outfielder for now.

Robbie has been solid for two seasons, and will be for this one also. Can anyone explain why Arcia was a board favorite and Grossman a board scapegoat? For those keeping score a home, for the past 3 years, at least one board scapegoat has made the All-Star team.

[howieramone2]

 

Grossman should be done. His OBP is “empty” meaning he will take a called third strike in hopes of walking. The book is out on him so I don’t think he will ever attain the high OPB again

At bat, after at bat, he's our most professional hitter except for Mauer.   The book on him has been out for quite some time, and the results will balance out shortly. Basically, all we are hearing from is the first to panic and I for one, never listen to those members.

[old nurse]

 

of course, I'm comparing him to Grossman....not LOMO.....this is about the OF, right?

The decision to keep Grossman was made long before whatever position player was added. Grossman's role was primary DH   With the hiring of Lomo, Grossman is now an outfielder, his secondary position.  They added one position player. They could have aded an outfielder like Gomez, instead they added LoMo. Choice LoMo, consequence Grossman is an outfielder.  Sorry that line escapes people.

[Oxtung]

 

The decision to keep Grossman was made long before whatever position player was added. Grossman's role was primary DH   With the hiring of Lomo, Grossman is now an outfielder, his secondary position.  They added one position player. They could have aded an outfielder like Gomez, instead they added LoMo. Choice LoMo, consequence Grossman is an outfielder.  Sorry that line escapes people.

 

It "escapes people" because it is flat out wrong. Grossman was the 4th OF last year without LoMo on the roster. Signing LoMo has no effect on Grossman's OF playing time.

 

Can we please be done with Robbie Grossman?

 

I'll give you 2 reasons the Twins haven't moved on from RG:

 

A Million & Another Million

 

Should have moved on when the contract could have been dropped for much less than the $2 Million tied to RG now and that my friends is just Gross Man!

$2 million in today's game is very little. I don't think it has any bearing on whether they keep Grossman on the roster or not. The Twins dropped $400K just to take a look at Sanchez in spring training.

[twins_89]

Grossman is fine as a bench bat, occasional DH, and once a week outfielder (who gets pulled late in games for a better defender). The problem comes when he has to play significant innings in the outfield. The Twins problem isn't so much having Grossman on the team, it's not having a defensively capable outfielder to fill in when one of the regulars goes down.

[Mike Sixel]

The decision to keep Grossman was made long before whatever position player was added. Grossman's role was primary DH With the hiring of Lomo, Grossman is now an outfielder, his secondary position. They added one position player. They could have aded an outfielder like Gomez, instead they added LoMo. Choice LoMo, consequence Grossman is an outfielder. Sorry that line escapes people.

But I'm talking about now. Now. Not then. What to do now.

[USAFChief]

Basically, all we are hearing from is the first to panic and I for one, never listen to those members.

yet you're responding, presumably to those same posters.

[Platoon]

Unless I am mistaken we do have a superior alternative as a RF'er. LaMarre. While I would agree that RG takes better AB's, his glove work is past awful, it borders on comical. As for attacking him as a hitter I would just pound the zone and make him hit himself on. His strength is the walk. Don't give it to him.

[ewen21]

 

Grossman is fine as a bench bat, occasional DH, and once a week outfielder 

And if one of the three outfielders are injured you have what we have now.  So what you are saying just doesn't apply to the present.  His best attribute as a hitter is he can walk, but has no speed, very little power and he is one of the worst outfielders in the game.  In almost 1,700 plate appearances he has a 4.6 WAR.

 

The guy is lucky he's still in baseball.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And if one of the three outfielders are injured you have what we have now. So what you are saying just doesn't apply to the present. His best attribute as a hitter is he can walk, but has no speed, very little power and he is one of the worst outfielders in the game. In almost 1,700 plate appearances he has a 4.6 WAR.

 

The guy is lucky he's still in baseball.

A fourth outfielder doesn’t NEED to become a third outfielder at the first sign of injury. That’s a conscious decision, not something that happens automatically.

 

And in the case of Grossman, it’s a bad decision. He can be a good support player but has no business going out into the field more than twice a week (and preferably once).

[Thrylos]

Yes.  I think that Grossman has outlived his usefulness in a Twins' uniform.  And when Buxton returns, he, and not LaMarre should go.

 

That said, an OF of Rosario, Kepler, and Wade is not viable, esp. against LHPs.  Having 3 lefty OFs is nuts, esp. when you have a lefty DH and a 1B, and the only RHB is your second baseman.

 

The Twins need more balance.  Zander Weil should be the next position player up and he can provide more that Grossman did...

 

 

[twins_89]

 

Yes.  I think that Grossman has outlived his usefulness in a Twins' uniform.  And when Buxton returns, he, and not LaMarre should go.

 

That said, an OF of Rosario, Kepler, and Wade is not viable, esp. against LHPs.  Having 3 lefty OFs is nuts, esp. when you have a lefty DH and a 1B, and the only RHB is your second baseman.

 

The Twins need more balance.  Zander Weil should be the next position player up and he can provide more that Grossman did...

 

If Wade hit right handed, the Twins outfield would be set through the 2021 season. As it is, Minnesota needs to find a right handed bat who is least an average corner outfielder.

[The Wise One]

 

Yes.  I think that Grossman has outlived his usefulness in a Twins' uniform.  And when Buxton returns, he, and not LaMarre should go.

 

That said, an OF of Rosario, Kepler, and Wade is not viable, esp. against LHPs.  Having 3 lefty OFs is nuts, esp. when you have a lefty DH and a 1B, and the only RHB is your second baseman.

 

The Twins need more balance.  Zander Weil should be the next position player up and he can provide more that Grossman did...

27 games in the outfield for his minor league career. Can't be any worse than a lot of the outfielders the Twins have had. Willie Norwood and Hosken Powell....

[old nurse]

 

But I'm talking about now. Now. Not then. What to do now.

There is the return to health of Buxton. Then there is Lamarre. AA players do not do so well going straight to the majors as hitters. Short term That leaves out Wade for now.

[Mr. Brooks]

There is the return to health of Buxton. Then there is Lamarre. AA players do not do so well going straight to the majors as hitters. Short term That leaves out Wade for now.

Then Wade should be in AAA.

The standard defense when it's asked why he's not, is "it doesn't matter where he is, they can bring him up from AA."

[old nurse]

 

Then Wade should be in AAA.
The standard defense when it's asked why he's not, is "it doesn't matter where he is, they can bring him up from AA."

Did not say he should not be in AAA. Did not say that it doesn't matter as a blanket statement for player. It would depend on the player.

[twins_89]

 

There is the return to health of Buxton. Then there is Lamarre. AA players do not do so well going straight to the majors as hitters. Short term That leaves out Wade for now.

 

A lot of the Twins better prospects go straight from AA to the majors. Wade has over 500 ABs at AA with more BB than SO, I'd say he's likely ready for a major league call-up.

[howeda7]

Another day. Another run cost on D. Another 0-fer. Now hitting a cool .176 with an OPS of .531. I don't care who they call up they can do better than this. 

[jmlease1]

Robbie Grossman: OPS+ 52, bWAR -0.4, $2M

Carlos Gomez: OPS+ 56, bWAR 0.1, $4M

 

Not a lot of good to see in either, IMHO. Not sure if the fact that Gomez has played about twice as much as Grossman making it better or worse...at least they're getting some defensive value? But both are putting the offensive in offense. Neither one looks like much of an asset this season.

 

LaMarre has been fine; he's probably hitting above his head right now, so it's hard to be too enthusiastic about getting him too many more ABs, but I'd rather have him hold the fort until Buxton returns than run Grossman out there right now. And a big no on calling up Wade and throwing him into the fire right now. 1) that's a big leap for any player, 2) the last thing we need is another LH bat. LaMarre at least swings from the right side.