Is Buxton gonna be an MVP candidate next year?

[jimmer]

 

Hey, I get it.  I was one of the people berating people for comparing Buxton to Trout in the beginning, saying that setting such a high bar for him was only going to slow down his development.

 

Note the term "slow down" and not "derail." He's still going to get there. And yeah, if this is your first time you have ever heard a Trout/Buxton comparison, you've been in a coma or something.....

Oh, it's not the first time I've read comparison's between the two. I never said it was. You''re making arguments and taking shots on things I haven't come close to saying

 

But I've consistently said those comparisons were ridiculous (not to mention unfair to Buxton), especially when Buxton was just a minor league prospect.

 

In any event, whether I've read the comparisons or not, doesn't make the comparisons any less ridiculous especially now that it's not looking at minor league prospect great Buxton, but actual major league player Buxton.  The starts of their careers are not alike.  Buxton might get close to Trout level eventually(meaning consistently great, not streaky great, for 6 straight years), but let's not put those expectations on Buxton.  I've been wanting people to stop putting those expectations on Buxton for a very long time right now.  It's not fair.  Players like Trout are so VERY rare.

[drjim]

 

Knock Trout out cold with a concussion right before his debut and I bet you get the same result.

 

If you don't see similarities between these two players you are in the minority. Buxton won't hit for the same power, but he will be equally exciting.

 

I don't want to jump into the Buxton/Trout comparisons, but I do think the injuries that Buxton suffered in 14 and 15 are underrated. He basically lost an entire year of development in 14 and wrist injuries can really linger and take a long time to get back to normal. It is not surprising that it took him a little time to get going.

 

Of course, that doesn't exactly explain his April this year. It truly is remarkable that he recovered from that. It was not a sure thing.

[70charger]

 

Of course, that doesn't exactly explain his April this year. It truly is remarkable that he recovered from that. It was not a sure thing.

 

I agree. That seemed more mental than anything else. Not that I know what's going on inside his head, but if it was mental, and he has restored the confidence in his game to play to his recent level, or his level last September, then the comparisons to Trout are probably pretty apt. He may never be as good, but "not quite as good as Trout" is actually an amazing compliment.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah, I love Buxton as much or more than anyone. Never doubted he'd be a star on both sides of the ball, not even this April.... or last.

But, barring career derailing injuries, Mike Trout will finish as THE best baseball player of all time.

Not an apt or fair comparison.

[ashbury]

Mod note: Folks, someone introduced an irrelevant reference to Berrios, which drew some responses. I've removed these posts. Please stay on topic. If you want to talk in depth about a different player, start a new thread.

[mazeville]

 

Comparisons to Trout at this point dilute the argument. A few moons ago, Buxton was looked upon by many as a player whose outstanding defensive play outweighed his mediocre offensive production. I think he has broken out as a hitter and put the abysmal hitting in the rear view mirror for good, but whether he can sustain close to the level of hitting he has brought recently over the long term is a very open question. I'm quite pleased that our guy with a.715 OPS looks like a stone All Star.I'll be open to considering MVP talk in 8 or 9 months. Knock on wood.

 

I agree - am generally not a huge fan of the Trout comparisons, especially as they put some unreasonable expectations on the kid's shoulders.

 

But, I do tend to use Trout as an example to counter others who try to point out flaws in Buxton's game ...

[Dantes929]

I have been comparing him more to Ricky Henderson.    He won't take as many walks or steal as many bases but his stolen base efficiency right now is off the charts.    His defense is also way better.    We've seen his floor.    We haven't seen his sustained ceiling.   Trout is more in the Mickey Mantle category.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Let's cool the jets and not be typical overreacting Minnesota sports fan. Yes, big picture Buck has the potential to be an MVP candidate. It still might take a few years and more ups and downs before he stays consistent. I prefer to enjoy the process and watch him progress (hopefully) into a Trout type superstar.

[cgreuling]

I've always thought he compared well to Eric Davis. Similar skill set. Similar physical tools. With the way he's looking now, we should just enjoy him being the first Byron Buxton though. I'm not sure he has a ceiling and if he's at his floor now, we'll be holding many, many players to the Buxton bar.

[USAFChief]

 

Yeah, I love Buxton as much or more than anyone. Never doubted he'd be a star on both sides of the ball, not even this April.... or last.
But, barring career derailing injuries, Mike Trout will finish as THE best baseball player of all time.
Not an apt or fair comparison.

Babe Ruth says hi.

[alarp33]

 

Babe Ruth says hi.

 

Mike Trout is already 1/3 of the way to Babe Ruth in WAR, and just turned 26... so.. Hi. 

[SwainZag]

David Shoenfield at ESPN, wrote a little article on Buxton and this really stood out to me:

 

"Buxton's home runs came off a curveball, slider and first-pitch fastball. The two he hit off breaking balls both came in pitcher's counts, and that improved pitch recognition will be the key to his continued overall improvement. He's hitting .333/.370/.657 in the second half, including .286 with a .991 OPS against off-speed pitches, after hitting .236 with a .566 OPS against them in the first half."

 

 

[DaveW]

Babe Ruth says hi.

Bonds > Ruth

Buxton > Bonds

Avian flu > Juan Castro

 

These are facts!

[USAFChief]

 

Mike Trout is already 1/3 of the way to Babe Ruth in WAR, and just turned 26... so.. Hi. 

Not to get too far off topic here, but...

 

Babe Ruth had a lifetime OPS of 1.164 in over 10600 PAs.  Lifetime OPS+ of 206.  His lifetime OBP is higher than Trout's best season to date.

 

Oh, and 94 wins and 1221 IP of 2.24 ERA as a pitcher.

 

If Mike Trout continues on pace for another 10 years he won't be better at baseball than Babe Ruth.

 

 

[alarp33]

 

Not to get too far off topic here, but...

 

Babe Ruth had a lifetime OPS of 1.164 in over 10600 PAs.  Lifetime OPS+ of 206.  His lifetime OBP is higher than Trout's best season to date.

 

Oh, and 94 wins and 1221 IP of 2.24 ERA as a pitcher.

 

If Mike Trout continues on pace for another 10 years he won't be better at baseball than Babe Ruth.

 

Not looking for this debate, and it's definitely off topic. 

 

Ruth also only played against white people, for what it's worth.  Hardly the level of competition Trout faces

[Craig Arko]

 

Not to get too far off topic here, but...

 

Babe Ruth had a lifetime OPS of 1.164 in over 10600 PAs.  Lifetime OPS+ of 206.  His lifetime OBP is higher than Trout's best season to date.

 

Oh, and 94 wins and 1221 IP of 2.24 ERA as a pitcher.

 

If Mike Trout continues on pace for another 10 years he won't be better at baseball than Babe Ruth.

And just think what Ruth could have done had he paid more attention to his diet and lifestyle.

[h2oface]

And after the home run derby..... Aaron Judge was going to be the new face of baseball. And then the second half of the season happens.....

 

I thought, according to the fervor displayed about the 1/1 draft pick, that Royce Lewis was going to be the MVP!

 

Hey..... anyone can have an MVP season. It does take a full season, though, and not just a month or two. It may as well be Buxton. Or maybe Sano. Or is Sano so first two months of the season? 

[h2oface]

 

Not to get too far off topic here, but...

 

Babe Ruth had a lifetime OPS of 1.164 in over 10600 PAs.  Lifetime OPS+ of 206.  His lifetime OBP is higher than Trout's best season to date.

 

Oh, and 94 wins and 1221 IP of 2.24 ERA as a pitcher.

 

If Mike Trout continues on pace for another 10 years he won't be better at baseball than Babe Ruth.

 

Aw, come on, Chief........ I'm surprised at the otherwise intelligent people who are busy judging the past by the standards of the present, something as intellectually dishonest as it is academically unsound, but away we go.......

 

That said...... the Babe sure is special.

[GCTF]

Well Buxton was named MVP if the last seven days. It's a start.

[Monkeypaws]

I think Andrew McCutchen is a better comp than Trout. Trout is an alien.

 

McCutchen has a similar skill set, and is an NL MVP.

[jimmer]

 

I think Andrew McCutchen is a better comp than Trout. Trout is an alien.

 

McCutchen has a similar skill set, and is an NL MVP.

I've always thought Eric Davis (like someone else said earlier).  A healthy Eric Davis was awesome!

[yarnivek1972]

Zoilo Versalles won the 1965 MVP. Now, he probably had one of the best offensive seasons for a shortstop in the 60s by anyone not named Ernie. But he also posted a defensive WAR of 3 that year, almost half of his WAR value that season.

 

I suspect that if there had been national sports talk radio in 1965, a lot of talking heads would have criticized the selection of Versalles as MVP. He didn't have big numbers in the "traditional" stats that voters looked at in those days (avg, HR, RBI). But he did lead AL position players in WAR. Only one other guy was within 1, White Sox infielder Don Buford.

[Loosey]

 

He has a .900+ OPs the last couple months. And the Hr power is coming around as well.

20 HR 35 SB and a .850-.875 ops with his defense? Watch out.

Just think ,if the power comes along like it has recently we could be seeing a 30-30 guy next season.

 

My expectations for Buxton are moving back towards the expectations I had a few years ago.  He doesn't need to be an "MVP".  If he can put up the numbers he has over the last 2+ months for full seasons, we are looking at a perennial All-Star that more importantly will help his team win lots of games with his all around game.

[nicksaviking]

 

Babe Ruth says hi.

 

Man that's creepy. 

 

Did you just summon his spirit? Or did you dig up his body and you're doing the whole Norman Bates bit?

[Mr. Brooks]

Not to get too far off topic here, but...

 

Babe Ruth had a lifetime OPS of 1.164 in over 10600 PAs. Lifetime OPS+ of 206. His lifetime OBP is higher than Trout's best season to date.

 

Oh, and 94 wins and 1221 IP of 2.24 ERA as a pitcher.

 

If Mike Trout continues on pace for another 10 years he won't be better at baseball than Babe Ruth.

A few things:

 

1) I agree, Babe Ruth was the greatest hitter baseball has ever seen.

But, defense and base running count too. Trout is elite at all three.

 

2) As someone else pointed out, Ruth only had to face white players.

Not his fault, but still, it is what it is.

 

3)It is hard to compare across generations, if not impossible.

So I'll revise my statement to say that barring injury he'll finish top 3 all time with Mays and Ruth.

 

 

For those including Bonds, i think he'd have been great either way, but he wouldn't have put up the silly video game numbers without the juice. That's my opinion and I'll take it to my grave.

[USAFChief]

Man that's creepy.

 

Did you just summon his spirit? Or did you dig up his body and you're doing the whole Norman Bates bit?

No.

 

But back on topic, if Buxton has a season like his last month or so, he will absolutely be an MVP candidate.

 

He's also damn fun to watch, which is cool.

[Mr. Brooks]

Man that's creepy.

 

Did you just summon his spirit? Or did you dig up his body and you're doing the whole Norman Bates bit?

I was thinking more Weekend at Bernies than Psycho.

[cmoss84]

My first thought was "nope, not yet." But then I thought about what his numbers might be next year. If he goes for 20 home runs and 50 swipes, along with gold glove CF, his name is being mentioned. He might get 20 and 50. If he stays healthy and doesn't run through walls. 

[Monkeypaws]

Sad thing, but Tony O coulda woulda shoulda had a hall of fame career but for knee injuries. Kubel could've been stellar but he wrecked a knee in the minors. I just hope Buxton can keep his legs healthy. I love watching him race crazily toward the wall and making fearless, hi-light reel grabs, but there is a certain risk.

 

His speed is his WHAT?! factor. Hopefully we get to enjoy it for years.

[mikecgrimes]

 

But, barring career derailing injuries, Mike Trout will finish as THE best baseball player of all time.
Not an apt or fair comparison.

 

Buxton has a better chance of winning next year's MVP then Trout does of finishing as the greatest player of all time, and Trout has a decent chance of finishing as the greatest player of all time.  Watching MLB network compare Buxton to Trout as I type this BTW.