More bullpen changes coming

[70charger]

My point still stands that it was pretty rude, young guy spent YEARS working his up the Twins ladder, gets his call-up, family shows up in town, they're excited, then after a brief appearance, he not just optioned back to Rochester, he's told by the DFA that we don't need you after your years of toil. Rude.

Baseball decisions should never be made on the excitement level of the family.

 

Look, it's a cutthroat business and the players know that when they sign the dotted line. We all like feel-good stories, but that's no way to run a baseball team.

[70charger]

Besides, which is more rude: getting a shot in bigs that lasts two appearances, or not getting a shot, not playing in the majors, and not being added to the 40-man?

[yarnivek1972]

Given that Molitor has been pretty reluctant to use inexperienced relievers in even seemingly low leverage situations, does anyone here truly believe that if Burdi, Chargois and Jay were all healthy and all on the MLB roster, that Paul Molitor would put them in position to succeed?  His track record is not good in this regard.

[drjim]

Given that Molitor has been pretty reluctant to use inexperienced relievers in even seemingly low leverage situations, does anyone here truly believe that if Burdi, Chargois and Jay were all healthy and all on the MLB roster, that Paul Molitor would put them in position to succeed? His track record is not good in this regard.

Not on day one, but probably by day 10 if they performed. He has put Rogers and Duffey in high leverage situations pretty quickly. Even Chargois was sneakkng into higher leverage by the end of last year.

[Cornholio]

My point still stands that it was pretty rude, young guy spent YEARS working his up the Twins ladder, gets his call-up, family shows up in town, they're excited, then after a brief appearance, he not just optioned back to Rochester, he's told by the DFA that we don't need you after your years of toil. Rude.

[Cornholio]

I disagree. It very well may have been a reward for those years of service. He was a borderline prospect/suspect who worked his tail off. Those two games may very well be his only two MLB games. (Although I hope not).

[twins_89]

 

I'd like to see Luke Bard added to the 40-man and brought up for an audition next. He's two years removed from missing two straight seasons, and pitching like the player we drafted in the supplemental round back in 2012 for losing...Jason Kubel.

 

I was wondering what was up with Bard in AA. He's got a crazy 41 strikeouts in 25 innings with only 8 walks. Did he finally get healthy enough to reach his potential (he was drafted 10 picks after Berrios)? I was curious if anyone had any insight on why he's had a jump in strikeouts this season.

[beckmt]

 

Not on day one, but probably by day 10 if they performed. He has put Rogers and Duffey in high leverage situations pretty quickly. Even Chargois was sneakkng into higher leverage by the end of last year.

Rogers was here last year and so was Duffey.  Still doubt he will use a reliever unless he has to(extra innings) that came up this year.

[jsteve96]

Luke Bard and John Curtiss need to be up ASAP... I'd DFA Belisle and Boshers

[John Kelsey]

 

Luke Bard and John Curtiss need to be up ASAP... I'd DFA Belisle and Boshers

 

Curtiss has to be yawning through his outings at this point, at least bump him up to AAA. 

[Han Joelo]

Fun fact:  Albert Pujols hit his 200th career homer off of Matt Belisle.  Or maybe it was the 300th.  Whatever, it was a long time ago.

 

Curtiss 1.1 innings, 3 strikeouts, stranded 2 in the 8th.  I'm starting to believe he could help right now.

[Doomtints]

 

Luke Bard and John Curtiss need to be up ASAP... I'd DFA Belisle and Boshers

 

Boshers has a 2.57 ERA and a 173 ERA+. 0% of his inherited runners have scored. He can give the team more than one inning of relief work when he comes out. If you look at his Pitchf/x, he knows exactly where he needs to throw it both to lefties and to righties and he has the skill to do it.

 

Are you just looking at his FIP and ignoring everything else? How did this strategy work out for Nolasco? At the very least look at his xFIP or something.

[jorgenswest]

Boshers has a 2.57 ERA and a 173 ERA+. 0% of his inherited runners have scored. He can give the team more than one inning of relief work when he comes out. If you look at his Pitchf/x, he knows exactly where he needs to throw it both to lefties and to righties.

 

Are you seriously just looking at his FIP and ignoring everything else? How did this strategy work out for Nolasco?

I don't see how you would look at either. Neither has any value for projecting future performance without a much larger sample. Once he gets to 150-200 plate appearances, strike out rate, walk rate and ground ball rate start to become meaningful. He is at 27 plate appearances. The data is meaningless. Only the eyes of a skilled observer seeing him in games and on the side can assess his value.

[MangLitch]

Can someone help me out in understanding this FO at this point?

 

Breslow

Belisle 

Wimmers

 

Vs. 

 

Bard

Curtiss

Melotakis

Reed - I know he just came back

 

 

I wouldn't be as perplexed if we were seeing some upward movement indicating that they were prepping these 4 guys for a stretch run, enabling us to not have to trade for a reliever. Why is it that Curtiss is wasting time putting up video game numbers in AA and the others at least provide some electricity in the form of intimidating stuff. 

 

I'm not a great baseball mind, but inspire me as a fan here and show me that you at least understand that these 4 pen arms are likely the only way we can hope to turn the bullpen into an asset for contention later in the year. Just seems like this FO is shoulder shrugging and saying that their are arms blocking these guys from progressing forward and showing the MLB club what they got. Maybe I am missing something.

[Doomtints]

 

I don't see how you would look at either. Neither has any value for projecting future performance without a much larger sample. Once he gets to 150-200 plate appearances, strike out rate, walk rate and ground ball rate start to become meaningful. He is at 27 plate appearances. The data is meaningless. Only the eyes of a skilled observer seeing him in games and on the side can assess his value.

 

I'm not sure what you are advocating. Are you saying the Twins should let him go, or not?

[Vanimal46]

 

Can someone help me out in understanding this FO at this point?

 

Breslow

Belisle 

Wimmers

 

Vs. 

 

Bard

Curtiss

Melotakis

Reed - I know he just came back

 

 

I wouldn't be as perplexed if we were seeing some upward movement indicating that they were prepping these 4 guys for a stretch run, enabling us to not have to trade for a reliever. Why is it that Curtiss is wasting time putting up video game numbers in AA and the others at least provide some electricity in the form of intimidating stuff. 

 

I'm not a great baseball mind, but inspire me as a fan here and show me that you at least understand that these 4 pen arms are likely the only way we can hope to turn the bullpen into an asset for contention later in the year. Just seems like this FO is shoulder shrugging and saying that their are arms blocking these guys from progressing forward and showing the MLB club what they got. Maybe I am missing something.

 

Re: Breslow - The bottom hasn't fallen off for him yet. I'm fine with keeping him until the inevitable implosion. Maybe you believe in veteran leadership, maybe you don't. That's something he provides as a 36 year old. 

 

Re: Belisle - He should be replaced. Agreed.

 

Re: Wimmers - This looks like his last shot to make a difference on an MLB roster before getting DFA'd for good. From the looks of it, he may only be on roster for a week or 2. 

 

It's possible that all 4 of the minor league options you mentioned will get their chance in the MLB. I don't know much about Bard or Curtiss to have an opinion on them. 

 

Let's also not pretend these are plan A for the Twins to call up. Curtiss and Bard are probably plan F and G on the pre-season plans. 

[jorgenswest]

I am saying that statistics can not be used to support an argument about Bosher's roster status. They are meaningless for future projection and will be for a while.

 

You can look at his career statistics and path which suggests that he is a AAAA player. Teams need these guys to fill in but it is low risk when they need to be DFA'd. I am fine with Boshers taking the last spot in the pen but have no means to argue against another's opinion that it should be one of the AA pitchers.

 

Has there been a skill level change to the point where he is part of a longer term future? No way to know with available data.

[MangLitch]

 

Re: Breslow - The bottom hasn't fallen off for him yet. I'm fine with keeping him until the inevitable implosion. Maybe you believe in veteran leadership, maybe you don't. That's something he provides as a 36 year old. 

 

Re: Belisle - He should be replaced. Agreed.

 

Re: Wimmers - This looks like his last shot to make a difference on an MLB roster before getting DFA'd for good. From the looks of it, he may only be on roster for a week or 2. 

 

It's possible that all 4 of the minor league options you mentioned will get their chance in the MLB. I don't know much about Bard or Curtiss to have an opinion on them. 

 

Let's also not pretend these are plan A for the Twins to call up. Curtiss and Bard are probably plan F and G on the pre-season plans. 

 

Fair, but plan F & G move real quick to A & B if we learn more about these guys as fast as we can. Main point in my mess of a thought dump there was why are we not seeing a real thought process on these prospects. Bard & Curtiss each have >1.5k/IP @ AA. This indicates to me that we need to see if AAA presents a different challenge. These guys become A&B in my mind if they can show the same dominance. 

 

Plus, lets be honest, I stop watching the game during the opponents half of the inning once the starter leaves. Im selfish, I wanna see some real fire power in this pen. Give me some guys that can get punch outs. The arms so far are quite uninspiring. 

 

This is about me.

 

 

[clone52]

 

The Rangers are/were going to DFA Sam Dyson but it sounds like multiple teams are interested in trading for him:

 

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/870467962007957505

 

A sinkerballing, journeyman reliever who surprisingly got handed a closer gig last year despite not having strikeout material or any real experience in that role.

 

I think I've heard that one before.

 

Journeyman?  This is really only his 4th year (other than a few outings in his first 2 years) and his first 3 years were really productive.  Plus, its not like he was ever released.  He was traded to the Rangers.  I always kind of assumed "journeyman" was a guy who bounced around to different teams via free agency.  If I were the Twins and could get him for a good price, I'd take a flyer on him.  

[MangLitch]

 

Journeyman?  This is really only his 4th year (other than a few outings in his first 2 years) and his first 3 years were really productive.  Plus, its not like he was ever released.  He was traded to the Rangers.  I always kind of assumed "journeyman" was a guy who bounced around to different teams via free agency.  If I were the Twins and could get him for a good price, I'd take a flyer on him.  

 

I may be in the minority here, but I think this is completely counter productive. We need to be real here. This run is fun and exciting coming off a 100+ loss season that gave us the #1 pick, but we still have a long road ahead and still have a tough time seeing us in the playoffs this year. 

 

Even if we sneak in, the Astros showed us what is likely to happen given that shot. So what does this move really accomplish in the long run? I would rather see us test some of the prospects down the stretch and see what we really have in that regard. I don't see a lot of value in Dyson other than a stop gap to building a legitimate bullpen. 

 

It's even less knowing that we have to give something up for him. 

[Doomtints]

 

I am saying that statistics can not be used to support an argument about Bosher's roster status. They are meaningless for future projection and will be for a while.

You can look at his career statistics and path which suggests that he is a AAAA player. Teams need these guys to fill in but it is low risk when they need to be DFA'd. I am fine with Boshers taking the last spot in the pen but have no means to argue against another's opinion that it should be one of the AA pitchers.

Has there been a skill level change to the point where he is part of a longer term future? No way to know with available data.

 

But the topic is keep him v. not keep him. Are you advocating keeping him because you feel he is unknowable, or getting rid of him because he you feel he is unknowable?

[jorgenswest]

You are persistent. Probably best to just ignore each other. Didn't I advocate for using him as AAAA fill in as needed?

[Doomtints]

 

You are persistent. Probably best to just ignore each other. Didn't I advocate for using him as AAAA fill in as needed?

 

I was trying to figure out if you are attacking the premises because you don't like the premises or because you don't like the conclusion. I was thinking it was the former, but by your note it seems like it's the latter.

[drjim]

Probably a good place to mention Turley struck out 15 in 6 shutout innings for Rochester today.

 

I imagine he'll get a look relatively soon.

[Pitz]

 

Probably a good place to mention Turley struck out 15 in 6 shutout innings for Rochester today.

I imagine he'll get a look relatively soon.

 

Against a pretty talented Yankees affiliate.

[yarnivek1972]

Probably a good place to mention Turley struck out 15 in 6 shutout innings for Rochester today.

 

I imagine he'll get a look relatively soon.

I guess the question is will it be as a starter or as a reliever. I think I'd take a look at him as a starter first.

[yarnivek1972]

Who will be the latest round of reinforcements? I have to believe that Wimmers and Rosario will be sent out. Hildenberger and Busenitz finally? Hildenberger can give length. So can Busenitz, actually.

[howeda7]

Who can start if we DL Santiago? Rosario will clearly be gone by the time Polanco returns if not before and Hughes is nowhere near returning.

[HitInAPinch]

Giants acquire Sam Dyson from Rangers, for a player to be named later.  Was kinda hoping the Twins would grab him and move some of the veteran dead-weight out.  If he were to come close to what he's been in the past, Dyson could have made a difference for the Twins.  

 

Still, really really liked the Rosario callup! 

[Platoon]

The tough part about this conversation is the fact that they don't need just a pitcher, they need a plethora of pitchers, both RP and SP. It's almost gotten to the point where the team needs a private jet to cart them from back and forth from Roch or Chattanooga. Btw, after years of needing 7 catchers on the roster, or so it seemed, I now see EE caught last night in a non emergency situation. Gardy would be appalled at the lack of respect for the game.