More bullpen changes coming

[Pardon My Dinger]

Who the hell is wilson? Guess I won't miss him much.

[Craig Arko]

Who the hell is wilson? Guess I won't miss him much.

He's Covfefe's younger brother.

[Tuba]

Businetz and Curtiss. Ride recent form through the storm. 

[Han Joelo]

Sorry. I was caught up in all the clamoring! "Glen where are you?" was the post I was referring to. I just wanted to make sure my thoughts on Perkins were voiced.

Hey! That was my post. Not really a clamor, though. More of a wistful lament, maybe a pensively hopeful whimper into a previous era, plaintively appealing to the ghost of Perkins past.

 

Anyway, Internet forums aren't exactly known for a robust ability to interpret tone.

 

Since we've piled on just about everybody, why not Duffey? 4 runs, no outs? Blech. He's infected too.

[David HK]

 

Businetz and Curtiss. Ride recent form through the storm. 

Aye.

 

Jeepers, this is what I just don't get-- yeh, we've had REALLY bad luck with the injuries to Burdi, et. al., but we still have a few live ones down on the farm that could be considered prospects, rather than suspects.  

 

How about we get one or two of them up here, in turn, and at least let 'em lose their fawn spots?  I don't care if those guys get shelled, it'll give 'em a taste of what to expect and an idea of what they need to work on.  What's the FO worried about?  Hurt feelings?

 

Criminy, I've taken a step up in sports or other stuff before I was really ready- took a lickin', and learned-- and burned to get back up and do it again.  Come on, Falvine, at least give your dwindling fan base some reason to watch games, and hope.

[jun]

Belisle should be released as well.

[jun]

Other than Rogers the whole bullpen struggled. Belisle should be released and Pressly should be demoted. That should have been done much earlier. I also don't understand why everyone is picking on Breslow. To be fair, he still holds a low ERA and gets some job done most of the time.

[yarnivek1972]

Other than Rogers the whole bullpen struggled. Belisle should be released and Pressly should be demoted. That should have been done much earlier. I also don't understand why everyone is picking on Breslow. To be fair, he still holds a low ERA and gets some job done most of the time.

Because he's a loogy that isn't getting lefties out. .310 obp. Not good. What's sad is that a .310 obp vs lefties represents a marked improvement over his previous 3-4 seasons. Which begs the question: Why sign the guy?

[jun]

 

Because he's a loogy that isn't getting lefties out. .310 obp. Not good. What's sad is that a .310 obp vs lefties represents a marked improvement over his previous 3-4 seasons. Which begs the question: Why sign the guy?

Well I only look at the results: (ERA)

                     

Breslow     2.73

Kintzler      2.78

Rogers      3.12

Duffey       3.51

Bosher      3.60

 

[mikelink45]

The Twins seem to be doing the one thing I did not expect -  ignoring the relievers in the minors that are actually succeeding.  I need therapy, the new FO obviously is using metrics I do not understand. 

[jun]

Correction: Breslow's ERA is 2.75. Sure he may not have good stuff,  at least he gets job done most of the time.

[John Kelsey]

Rosario is the other which surprises me. 

 

I'm not sure if he's ready but at least he will be exciting. 

[John Kelsey]

 

Correction: Breslow's ERA is 2.75. Sure he may not have good stuff,  at least he gets job done most of the time.

 

A few people have posted numbers to show that clearly won't last. Plus seemingly all of his inherited runners score. 

[jun]

 

A few people have posted numbers to show that clearly won't last. Plus seemingly all of his inherited runners score. 

Breslow's IRS% is better than Belisle and Duffey, worse than Kintzler and Rogers. 

30.8% 

 

Here is the stats:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/minnesota-twins-team-stats?season=2017&category=PITCHING+RELIEF&group=1&sort=17&time=0&pos=0&qual=0&splitType=128

[twins_89]

 

Rosario is the other which surprises me. 

 

I'm not sure if he's ready but at least he will be exciting. 

 

The first reliever who is a legitimate prospect to be promoted this year. I'm somewhat surprised that they past over Melotakis who is older with more time spent at AA.

[Seth Stohs]

 

The first reliever who is a legitimate prospect to be promoted this year. I'm somewhat surprised that they past over Melotakis who is older with more time spent at AA.

 

Take 30 seconds to compare their numbers in May... makes it a pretty easy choice. 

[jun]

Duffey leads the group with an IRS% of 45.5%. That might be the only reason why he should be starting. Yeah right clean up his own mess.

[Danchat]

I'm intrigued by Randy Rosario's call up. I'm surprised they called up a guy from AA who wasn't Melotakis. He's a legit prospect and he's put up some good numbers, but going from AA to the majors will be a tough transition. At least we're going with a guy who has the talent to make it happen.

 

I can't imagine this will be a long-term thing for Rosario, but maybe he can help us out here in the short term.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Take 30 seconds to compare their numbers in May... makes it a pretty easy choice. 

 

You mean like the choice of Hildenberger over Wimmers, since the former pitched better in May? Or maybe the choice of Busenitz over Wimmers, since Busenitz pitched much better in May?

 

I agree, easy choices.

[h2oface]

 

It never rains in southern California...

 

It does this year so far......... a lot.

but it is not in the forecast. Cool, though.

[Seth Stohs]

 

You mean like the choice of Hildenberger over Wimmers, since the former pitched better in May? Or maybe the choice of Busenitz over Wimmers, since Busenitz pitched much better in May?

 

I agree, easy choices.

 

Yup, I would have gone Busenitz... but I won't pretend to understand the bigger picture.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Yup, I would have gone Busenitz... but I won't pretend to understand the bigger picture.

 

Wimmers wasn't even on the 40-man roster! There is no bigger picture, that's what is scaring me.

 

From a wins and losses standpoint, it doesn't matter much. But certain moves tell us about how the organization makes decisions. With respect, your 'big picture' comment is the exact sort of thing you said with regard to moves made under Ryan.

 

I have been consistent in arguing that Falvey & Levine deserve patience in terms of their efforts to rebuild the organization. But this ongoing horror show with the bullpen is inexcusable. They know full well that Wimmers isn't an MLB pitcher . . . there is literally no legitimate reason you could even postulate to support him being called up over several different alternatives.

 

Usually, things aren't so clear-cut, and so it's impossible for us as fans to make a solid conclusion one way or the other. That's why it's significant when there is a decision we can evaluate fairly, and why it's concerning when the professionals paid to turn things around can't get it right.

[Seth Stohs]

We know that 2017 has been deemed an evaluation year for Derek Falvey and Thad Levine.. They've said that all along. That means they are evaluating the rest of the front office and players all the time, people around the organization including the manager and coaching staff.

 

Wimmers is a guy that Paul Molitor wanted to bring north. Bringing up Wimmers who by the way, was sent to Chattanooga for a few days a couple of weeks ago, allows them now to evaluate Wimmers at the highest level. They are also able to continue their evaluation of Molitor and his eye for talent in doing so. 

 

Maybe that's the bigger picture. They took 6 weeks to evaluate Danny Santana and Michael Tonkin. They evaluated Kyle Gibson and made a decision on him. Of course, circumstances come into play .Hughes going on the DL meant Gibson was brought up sooner than they wanted. The last 4 games have necessitated roster moves that they probably don't want to be making but now have to. Why? Because the Twins find themselves in 1st place on June 1, so they are also making moves to try to give the team a chance to win without giving up anything as it relates to the future... 

 

I may be wrong. That's how I see the Wimmers move... 

 

As for the Rosario move... he fits into the future... he's young. He's got really good stuff. And he's been incredible in May while Melotakis - who could also be part of that future - has struggled the last couple of weeks. 

 

There's likely a lot going into play in these decisions. 

[HitInAPinch]

 

He's Covfefe's younger brother.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f311/tmarx22/homeimprovementnieghbor.jpg

[HitInAPinch]

Good Grief, people.  Are we forgetting who the Twins just played against?  Houston Astros.  Send up any young prospects to face that lineup, or these guys:

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Vja4cA9bY8/Tewdd3Kb-EI/AAAAAAAAC9Y/4nW5XZL9vm8/s1600/lamb2.jpg

[yarnivek1972]

Probably not a good idea to use ERA to judge middle relievers. Inherited runner data is good, and another good one is first batter faced. Middle relievers often come in with runners on. And any runners they leave on, might get stranded by the guy who comes in next. So, relievers really need to be judged by the results of the batters they face. Breslow is doing poorly in that regard, particularly against LHP, which is usually what the first batter he will see is going to be.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Duffey leads the group with an IRS% of 45.5%. That might be the only reason why he should be starting. Yeah right clean up his own mess.

or he should close and come in to a clean inning

[drjim]

You mean like the choice of Hildenberger over Wimmers, since the former pitched better in May? Or maybe the choice of Busenitz over Wimmers, since Busenitz pitched much better in May?

 

I agree, easy choices.

I don't necessarily agree, but I assume Wimmers is here as a long man only, which isn't the best role for Hildenberger or Busenitz.

 

Calling up Romero actually gives me some optimism that they are going to start cycling through this next group of relievers that they have thus far avoided calling up.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, I think they are giving some of the marginal guys a shot first to get a good look and then quickly DFA if they cannot cut it.  A guy like Hildenberger would get lost if he got DFAd.  Wimmers, not so much. 

 

I wanted to see some guys from the minors... we are getting that, just not the guys we wanted to see... but Wimmers and Rosario is certainly more intriguing to look at than some of the guys they've been tossing out there of late.

[drivlikejehu]

 

We know that 2017 has been deemed an evaluation year for Derek Falvey and Thad Levine.. They've said that all along. That means they are evaluating the rest of the front office and players all the time, people around the organization including the manager and coaching staff.

 

Wimmers is a guy that Paul Molitor wanted to bring north. Bringing up Wimmers who by the way, was sent to Chattanooga for a few days a couple of weeks ago, allows them now to evaluate Wimmers at the highest level. They are also able to continue their evaluation of Molitor and his eye for talent in doing so. 

 

Maybe that's the bigger picture. They took 6 weeks to evaluate Danny Santana and Michael Tonkin. They evaluated Kyle Gibson and made a decision on him. Of course, circumstances come into play .Hughes going on the DL meant Gibson was brought up sooner than they wanted. The last 4 games have necessitated roster moves that they probably don't want to be making but now have to. Why? Because the Twins find themselves in 1st place on June 1, so they are also making moves to try to give the team a chance to win without giving up anything as it relates to the future... 

 

I may be wrong. That's how I see the Wimmers move... 

 

Why do Falvey and Levine need to evaluate Molitor's "eye for talent?" The Twins have plenty of scouts that look at the organization's players, in addition of course to Falvey and Levine's own observations.

 

Regardless, if Molitor thinks Wimmers is good, then Molitor isn't a good judge of RP talent. It couldn't be any simpler. Bringing Wimmers up to prove he isn't good is an incredibly strange move, and by your logic a frankly cynical one because the Twins front office is 100% aware that Wimmers isn't MLB-caliber.

 

I guess it could make sense if Falvey & Levine are actively trying to compile a dossier against Molitor to take to Pohlad in the off-season, to ensure that Molitor can be fired. But I can't imagine that Falvey would have taken the job if he was permanently banned from changing managers.

 

More broadly, blanket statements about "evaluation" are a cop-out. Yes, it makes sense to give talented players a chance, and yes, it makes sense to evaluate team personnel over the course of a season. But a player without MLB talent requires no "evaluation," otherwise roster construction would practically be random.

 

The issue isn't whether calling up Wimmers could be defensible in some way, because it can't, period, end of story. The bigger question is what the heck is going on in the front office, who ignored the bullpen during the off-season on the assumption the team would stink, and then after a surprising start are not only letting the bullpen burn down the team, but seem to be actively promoting that outcome.