More bullpen changes coming

[Blackjack]

 

Jason Wheeler was DFA'd.

i know its a business but this is kind of rude.  Call the guy up for his major league debut, hes all excited, family comes to town to see him pitch, pitch him a couple times, then give him his walking papers.  Yes, he didn't pitch that well but how many pitchers do on their initial shot in the majors??

[Otto von Ballpark]

i know its a business but this is kind of rude. Call the guy up for his major league debut, hes all excited, family comes to town to see him pitch, pitch him a couple times, then give him his walking papers. Yes, he didn't pitch that well but how many pitchers do on their initial shot in the majors??

DFA is not "walking papers." It is just a common procedural move to send him back to Rochester.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think the two callups reflect the difference between Molitor and the FO. Wimmers is up because Molitor wants him and hopes he can be a short term solution, much like Boshers. The FO is giving Wimmers a chance because Molitor wants him and the FO is giving the guy "one last chance" to make it, probably on a pretty short leash. Rosario is up because the FO thinks he's a future bullpen piece and wants to see if he's ready and how far away he is if he's not. The FO is thinking long term; Molitor is thinking short term. I think we can expect this kind of a pattern for awhile.  

 

I think this also explains one of the real  underlying issues.  The FO  sees this as an evaluation  year where they can evaluate the organization in all aspects and is more willing to give younger players  an opportunity even at the cost of some wins. Molitor is more short-term focused and has a strong veteran preference because he is risk averse  and isn't willing to gamble on those few wins. The "correct" approach depends on where you see this team and whether you think this team has the potential to contend in the short term, needs to build for the long term, or should ascribe to a philosophy of winning as many games every year even if that hurts long-term development.

 

I am in the camp of  using this year as a developmental year, even if that means sacrificing wins this year to develop players.  I am willing to take the risk that you will have a bad year this year and for the next few years because the development process fails or we have the wrong players. I think Molitor would fundamentally disagree with that philosophy..  This, in a nutshell, is why I think Molitor is the wrong guy to manage this team. He would be better three or four years from now when the team was already a veteran contending team. He is the wrong guide now and he is not the guy to get them there.

 

I don't see any evidence of them wanting young players up here. They pursued a 35 yo DH, signed two RPs over 35, and brought in 2 veteran catchers. I think Rosario is the first young, actual prospect, they've called up.

 

Frankly, we have no idea what this FO wants, or doesn't. Molitor? Agreed, he seems to have trust issues with young pitchers. But again, that's just a hypothesis/theory.

[drjim]

 

I think the two callups reflect the difference between Molitor and the FO. Wimmers is up because Molitor wants him and hopes he can be a short term solution, much like Boshers. The FO is giving Wimmers a chance because Molitor wants him and the FO is giving the guy "one last chance" to make it, probably on a pretty short leash. Rosario is up because the FO thinks he's a future bullpen piece and wants to see if he's ready and how far away he is if he's not. The FO is thinking long term; Molitor is thinking short term. I think we can expect this kind of a pattern for awhile.  

 

I think this also explains one of the real  underlying issues.  The FO  sees this as an evaluation  year where they can evaluate the organization in all aspects and is more willing to give younger players  an opportunity even at the cost of some wins. Molitor is more short-term focused and has a strong veteran preference because he is risk averse  and isn't willing to gamble on those few wins. The "correct" approach depends on where you see this team and whether you think this team has the potential to contend in the short term, needs to build for the long term, or should ascribe to a philosophy of winning as many games every year even if that hurts long-term development.

 

I am in the camp of  using this year as a developmental year, even if that means sacrificing wins this year to develop players.  I am willing to take the risk that you will have a bad year this year and for the next few years because the development process fails or we have the wrong players. I think Molitor would fundamentally disagree with that philosophy..  This, in a nutshell, is why I think Molitor is the wrong guy to manage this team. He would be better three or four years from now when the team was already a veteran contending team. He is the wrong guide now and he is not the guy to get them there.

 

How do you know any of this? Everything you like you credti to the front office, everything you don't you credit to Molitor. I'm not sure it works that way.

 

And, really, what evidence is there that Molitor won't play a young player that actually has talent? He runs young players out in the everyday lineup every day, he hasn't hesitated to start Mejia or Berrios, and he has given his youngest relievers (Rogers, Duffey) prominent bullpen roles over more veteran guys (Belisle, Breslow).

[Vanimal46]

I don't really care that Wimmers and Rosario are the first ones on the list to call up. As long as there's a very long list of people to shuffle through during the season. And they can finally cross some people off the list this season instead of hoping for something in the future that's not there. 

[rghrbek]

The question is, will Molly pitch Wimmers, up by 6, with 6 outs to get?

[lukeduke1980]

My theory is that Wimmers was brought up as a potential long guy, for thursday.  If Mejia goes 2 innings and wimmers 3, then wimmers might get DFAd and Wilk brought back in likeliness of a poor Gibson outing.  

 

Starting pitching is still part of the issue.

[drjim]

My theory is that Wimmers was brought up as a potential long guy, for thursday. If Mejia goes 2 innings and wimmers 3, then wimmers might get DFAd and Wilk brought back in likeliness of a poor Gibson outing.

 

Starting pitching is still part of the issue.

I suspect this is very likely.

 

I know Wimmers is not all that inspiring, but we can probably relax a little on the pitcher called up to eat innings in case of a short start. They (rightly) don't want a prospect in that role.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd say that's how I'd use Wimmers, but is that how they used him last year? I literally cannot recall, but I don't think so.

[Mike Sixel]

Not sure I said this here, but it's good that a legit prospect got the call. Let's hope they actually use him, and that he's good.

[twins_89]

Coming into the season if someone told me Randy Rosario would be called up before any of Jay, Chargois, Burdi, Reed, Hildenberger, or Melotakis I would have never believed it.

[old nurse]

If Wimmers can put up a 4 ERA it makes him a better option at this point than quite a few of the relievers and a couple of the starters. The Angels, Mariners nor Giants  are what the Asros have been offensively.  Of course that could change...

With the Twins starters not named Santana or Berrios not getting out of the 5th inning or less the Twins may need 2 relievers capable of multiple innings.

[ashbury]

It's about time for mid-season minor-league promotions. My guess is Rosario is headed for AAA, but because he's already on the 40-man, it costs nothing of importance to bring him to the big club as a detour, and let him pitch a few innings to give the beleaguered bullpen some rest. If he happens to pitch lights-out, sure, he'll stay up, but likely he'll depart after a few games and head toward Rochester instead of Chattanooga.

[drjim]

 

I'd say that's how I'd use Wimmers, but is that how they used him last year? I literally cannot recall, but I don't think so.

 

He almost entirely in September. Hard to draw much of a conclusion.

 

I assume he'll be the long man, but I guess it's hard to know what roles the current bullpen will have. I would be pretty stunned if he is used late innings with a lead.

[drjim]

 

It's about time for mid-season minor-league promotions. My guess is Rosario is headed for AAA, but because he's already on the 40-man, it costs nothing of importance to bring him to the big club as a detour, and let him pitch a few innings to give the beleaguered bullpen some rest. If he happens to pitch lights-out, sure, he'll stay up, but likely he'll depart after a few games and head toward Rochester instead of Chattanooga.

 

This certainly could be the plan, it would be disappointing. It really is time to start cycling through some of the young guys. I don't see much reason to keep Boshers. Ideally they send someone down when Vargas can return.

[DaveW]

The most frustrating thing about all of this nonsense is everyone KNEW this would happen, and that during the off-season this would have been a rather easy at least partial fix.

[drjim]

 

I think you can look at what he says and what he does. He has consistently said that experience is crucial in the bullpen and resisted playing the young players last year (although that may also have been coming from Terry Ryan).  He used Belisle as the iron clad 8th inning guy for weeks and only stopped because he stinks. He kept running Pressly out there when he just didn't have it and only went to Rogers in crucial situations very recently. He still won't pitch Duffy in the 8th inning and only went to younger starters when Hughes got hurt and Gibson was wildly ineffective. His words and actions have shown a real preference for veterans over youth , even where the veterans have shown themselves to be mediocrities.

 

I agree that there shoudl be no free pass to the FO or to ownership for that matter.  Molitor is a lame duck manager not hired by the new FO who is here at  least in part because it was condition from ownership. One would think that they all sat down together at the start of the year and charted out a plan to integrate and develop young players even at the cost of a few wins with Molitor not on the hook for those marginal wins and losses. Yet Molitor manages like those wins are the things that could save his job or like he just can't let go and watch the young guys learn through failure. If they didn't have that plan going forward, that's on the FO, Molitor and the owner. 

 

Young guys should have to play themselves into larger roles, that's a pretty normal course of affairs. As they have performed, Molitor has used them in larger roles. I just don't see any young players on the roster that are being used in a role less than they should be.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Young guys should have to play themselves into larger roles, that's a pretty normal course of affairs. As they have performed, Molitor has used them in larger roles. I just don't see any young players on the roster that are being used in a role less than they should be.

 

How'd you feel about his use of Kepler early last year, or Polanco? Was not a fan, personally. My guess is that both the anti molitor, and pro molitor, sides are too black and white in their positions. 

[drjim]

 

The most frustrating thing about all of this nonsense is everyone KNEW this would happen, and that during the off-season this would have been a rather easy at least partial fix.

 

It really was a baffling offseason regarding relievers.

 

I'll give the new front office time to show something, but this was not a impressive start to their tenure.

[nicksaviking]

 

Young guys should have to play themselves into larger roles, that's a pretty normal course of affairs. As they have performed, Molitor has used them in larger roles. I just don't see any young players on the roster that are being used in a role less than they should be.

 

Traditionally that's the case.

 

But what happens whey you have next to no one to fill the larger roles to begin with? You just shoehorn vets who don't fit the bill and don't have the skill into the positions?

 

To me it makes less sense to give these jobs to overmatched vets who don't fit the role than to give it to guys who are expected to fit the role, just perhaps not right this minute.

[drjim]

 

How'd you feel about his use of Kepler early last year, or Polanco? Was not a fan, personally. My guess is that both the anti molitor, and pro molitor, sides are too black and white in their positions. 

 

I'm not sure Kepler was ready at the beginning of the year, I had no problem with giving him extra time in the minors. He basically player every day starting June 1. I have a really hard time complaining about the development of Kepler.

 

I don't know what to think about Polanco, the whole development last year (and before) seemed to be a fiasco. Not sure what percent I'd give to Molitor, but he did play basically every day starting late July, mostly as SS, which he had not played in the minors.

[drjim]

 

Traditionally that's the case.

 

But what happens whey you have next to no one to fill the larger roles to begin with? You just shoehorn vets who don't fit the bill and don't have the skill into the positions?

 

To me it makes less sense to give these jobs to overmatched vets who don't fit the role than to give it to guys who are expected to fit the role, just perhaps not right this minute.

 

Who are the actual young players you are referring to here?

[nicksaviking]

 

Who are the actual young players you are referring to here?

 

I was referring to the young bullpen guys, mostly biding their time in AA and AAA. As they are not up yet it probably isn't fair to assume Molitor would place them in marginal roles in favor of the vets who to this point in the season and most points in their career have shown not to be capable of being high leverage relievers.

 

Molitor's track record indicates he will do this, but I can put a pin in this take on the debate until we see if he actually does or not.

[drjim]

 

I was referring to the young bullpen guys, mostly biding their time in AA and AAA. As they are not up yet it probably isn't fair to assume Molitor would place them in marginal roles in favor of the vets who to this point in the season and most points in their career have shown not to be capable of being high leverage relievers.

 

Molitor's track record indicates he will do this, but I can put a pin in this take on the debate until we see if he actually does or not.

 

I also don't think any of the bullpen arms in AA or AAA are clearly so good they should jump into a significant role in the bullpen on day one. They would definitely need to pitch into a bigger role. That would not be Molitor's fault.

[Thrylos]

The other thing in the Romero vs. Melotakis discussion:  Unlike Melotakis: Romero is about equally effective vs lefties and righties and he has been averaging about 2-1/3 innings per appearance, thus making him bit more flexible.

[yarnivek1972]

My theory is that Wimmers was brought up as a potential long guy, for thursday. If Mejia goes 2 innings and wimmers 3, then wimmers might get DFAd and Wilk brought back in likeliness of a poor Gibson outing.

 

Starting pitching is still part of the issue.

Wilk wouldn't be eligible until 10 days after he was sent down. So, end of next week at the earliest.

[drjim]

The other thing in the Romero vs. Melotakis discussion: Unlike Melotakis: Romero is about equally effective vs lefties and righties and he has been averaging about 2-1/3 innings per appearance, thus making him bit more flexible.

Interesting, hadn't noticed that about Rosario. Maybe he'll be the long man. Stuff could play up a little if he only goes 1 inning at a time.

[yarnivek1972]

I think Boshers is a LOGY, and if used that way would be effective.

The problem is that none of the lefty relievers the Twins have on the roster have demonstrated ability to get RHB out. This year, Roger's numbers LOOK about the same in terms of OPS, but I think that was just a matter of the HR he gave up to Hosmer a week ago. Rogers only gave up 1 HR to a LHB last year in nearly 100 AB.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm with you I would rather see Duffy closing and Kintzler be the 7th or 8th inning guy. You have to have good stuff to face guy's in the 8th inning as your facing the 3,4,5 hitters often. In my opinion I want the guy with the most movement on his pitches in the 8th, and the gas thrower in the 9th. I would reverse Kintler forward and move Duffy to the back end or closer role until Perkins is healthy and can finally pitch.

 

I want my 3rd best RP as closer, with the other two being free to pitch when most needed.....

[John Kelsey]

Jay just went back to the DL so we can continue to not factor him in.