Eduardo Escobar Watch

[strumdatjaguar]

Time to start the Eddie Esckie watch.   Unless they really need two utility infielders, Adrianza looks like the #1 option. Escobar has made a great contribution in previous years.  It's time to cut him loose.  Nick Gordon may be here in September..

[David HK]

Kind of thinking the same thing.  It looks a bit like Falvine are actually auditioning people, and giving some guys one last shot to prove themselves.  EE has been one of my favorite Twins since we got him, but, I can feel those same rumblings you mentioned, Strum.

[Old Twins Cap]

Escobar has some pop in his bat and is the team's best dancer and clown.

 

I watched Adrianza closely today, and he is smooth in the field, fleet of foot and takes a good at bat.

 

But he lacks pop.

 

Agree that Twins don't need them both.

[Eris]

I agree with your assessment about Escobar.  Except for 2014, he has never had above average defensive numbers and needs to hit to maintain a roster spot.  This year and last he has not hit well enough to justify a roster spot.  The Twins could use an additional outfielder. However, they have been managing except for the game on Friday where they PH for Rosario and Buxton an thereby needing to put Esobar and Grossman in the outfield.  Zach Granite might give the Twins defensive flexibility, but he would benefit by playing everyday in AAA.  

 

I don't think calling up Nick Gordon this year is good use of a 40 man roster spot.  He does not need to be added to the 40 man until after next season.  

[stringer bell]

Fourth outfielder (Grossman) and utility infielder (Escobar) are both more offensive players than defensive players. Both guys are switch hitters, which is a good thing. Adrianza does fit the bill for a utility role and someone like Granite might be a prototypical fit as a backup outfielder, although it would be better if he were a right handed hitter.

 

Escobar is a good player and in another setting would be even more valuable than he has been for the Twins. FWIW, he's very popular in the clubhouse, too. I don't think he should be given away for nothing.

 

IMHO, Grossman has been the second best offensive player and he's been consistent since the start of the year. He has value and he's an injury away from being an everyday player for the Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not ready to give up on a backup middle infielder that posted an OPS+ over 100 in two of the past three seasons.

 

Most middle infielders who hit that well are called starters.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would want Escobar off the roster. Are you going to find a more capable player in the minors? No. Then why get rid of him?

 

Never mind that one injury to Sano, Polanco, or Dozier and Adrianza is a starting player. He's slick with the glove and everything but no thanks.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This year and last he has not hit well enough to justify a roster spot.

This is the problem with snap decisions based in part on SSS. Last year, Escobar was bad at everything. He was so outside his career norm it's hard to explain it without considering whether he was injured.

 

As for this season, Escobar has so few plate appearances that he could go 2-4 in today's game with a homer and single and his offensive numbers look good again (85 PAs, 88 OPS+ currently).

 

Just four days ago, he was rocking a .785 OPS.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Last week, Escobar passed the 5 year mark for MLB service time, so he can now refuse any minor league assignment, regardless of whether he clears waivers.  The only ways to remove him from the roster now would be trade or release.

[drjim]

 

Last week, Escobar passed the 5 year mark for MLB service time, so he can now refuse any minor league assignment, regardless of whether he clears waivers.  The only ways to remove him from the roster now would be trade or release.

 

He's out of options anyway, so this is moot. Someone would pick him up if the Twins DFAed him.

[Shaitan]

Most teams carry two backup IF, don't they? Plus, he's the go-to pinch hitter right now (which is a whole different problem). In other words, I see no signs he's on the outs with the team. Pure speculation.

 

What this team needs for versatility is a true defensive outfielder/pinch runner on the bench so starting OF can get a full day off now. But they'd need to drop one of their dead weight pitchers for that, which is never going to happen.

[Linus]

Adrianza looks very smooth in the field. My guess is that they want him and Esco as trading Dozier is still a possibility.

[Bark's Lounge]

I'm sort of shocked by this thread. Escobar is a solid major league baseball player.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He's out of options anyway, so this is moot. Someone would pick him up if the Twins DFAed him.

Well, he does have a $2.6 mil price tag now.  It was probably moot once he got off to a decent start with the bat this year; absent that, I could have possibly seen him clearing like Milone did last year.

 

Of course, I don't think it's necessarily likely (or advisable).

[clutterheart]

If they trade Escobar, who is the back up third baseman?  Adrianza doesn't have the bat, and there in't many deserving options in AAA or AA.  

Sano won't go the whole year without an injury.  So I say its best to keep Escobar on the 25 man roster.  

 

[gunnarthor]

I'm ok trading Escobar if the right deal comes along but until then, he's a solid bench option. When Gordon is ready to come up, Escobar isn't going to be blocking him, Dozier/Polanco is.

[Bill]

Was at the games Sunday (with a great seat in game 2!).  Adrianza looks excellent in the field.  Very smooth and outstanding arm.  You can really see it in person at field level.  A lot of zip on the throws with an easy motion.

 

But.. there is no reason to move Escobar.  He is a decent hitter and decent fielder.  Two backups for 2B/SS/3B seems right to me. Gordon will not be up until next year or maybe September, when rosters expand anyway.  Plus, we might trade Dozier.  

[bird]

I don't want Escobar off the roster. However, I want my GM to ALWAYS be looking for opportunities to sell high from surplus in exchange for prospects. The Eduardo Nunez trade for example. The Giants took Nunez and his $4M cost, likely motivated by both need and thoughts that he could keep it up. They gave up a prospect in Mejia they knew had a higher projected value, but were willing to let the Twins assume the risk that it would never be realized, exactly the kind of risk trade-off I want the Twins to assume. The Giants would probably like to give Nunez and his .290 OBP back to us in exchange for Adalberto.

 

So yes, every other GM in baseball would be aware of the fact that, in Adrianza and Escobar, we have a surplus of one and will listen to an offer. Take your pick, but "overpay", please.

[Loosey]

I don't see the reason to let him go.  He is at least an average starting infielder and exceptional backup. One injury and he is playing everyday.  Who replaces him?  What happens if he gets hot and Polanco slumps, what about a Dozier Trade, who's backup 3rd baseman?  Many more reasons to keep him than let him go.

[yarnivek1972]

If the Twins start to tumble in the standings as the result of the increased quality of their opponents, Escobar could all of a sudden be very expendable.

 

If Sano were to get hurt for an extended time, that would be the end of the Twins chances to contend anyway, so would it really matter who played 3b?  Odds are it would be Matt Hague, who is still putting up solid numbers in AAA.  He's not Sano, but if he were half of what Sano was, he'd be in the bigs somewhere.

 

Adrianza probably wouldn't start at 2b or ss either.  Engelb Vielma probably would.

[drjim]

If the Twins start to tumble in the standings as the result of the increased quality of their opponents, Escobar could all of a sudden be very expendable.

 

If Sano were to get hurt for an extended time, that would be the end of the Twins chances to contend anyway, so would it really matter who played 3b? Odds are it would be Matt Hague, who is still putting up solid numbers in AAA. He's not Sano, but if he were half of what Sano was, he'd be in the bigs somewhere.

 

Adrianza probably wouldn't start at 2b or ss either. Engelb Vielma probably would.

If the Twins start to stumble in the standings then a whole bunch of players could become available that shouldn't be moved at the moment.

[jimbo92107]

If the Twins move on from Eduardo Escobar, it's because they have talented young players that need to get a shot, not because Escobar sucks. Esco would indeed be snapped up immediately if released, for he is a versatile super-sub with pop in his bat. There's always a market for guys like that. 

 

That said, Nico Goodrum is a super-sub type, good glove with some pop. His AAA average is unimpressive, but he might round out well at the mlb level. Engelb Vielma is another option, but he's too much like a clone of Adrianza. Slick glove, slap hitter. Could Nick Gordon survive at the mlb level? Sure, but the Twins are being extra-careful with their top prospect. They don't want Gordon to suffer the kind of frustrations Buxton is going through, so they're letting him get lots of at-bats in AA to solidify his confidence. On the other hand, if Gordon goes on a tear, like jacking his average above .350, then we might see him pretty soon. Hey kid, wanna cuppa coffee? Start mashing some baseballs. 

[bluechipper]

Escobar has always been better as a RH hitter, and this year, he's got a 1.025 OPS from that side. He's just been really bad left handed so far this year. He seems like a solid backup and team morale guy to me.

[Danchat]

Man, now that DanSan is off the team, we're starting to see people calling for Escobar and Vargas to go... Our bench is fine, let's avoid making any unnecessary moves.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Man, now that DanSan is off the team, we're starting to see people calling for Escobar and Vargas to go... Our bench is fine, let's avoid making any unnecessary moves.

Agreed. Improve some positions in the off-season? Cool! But this is a fairly strong set of position players we have right now, given our options.

Garver is the only player with an impressive OBP/SLG/OPS in AAA so far this year.

Sending players away because they are not All-Stars is a luxury no team has.

[drjim]

 

Man, now that DanSan is off the team, we're starting to see people calling for Escobar and Vargas to go... Our bench is fine, let's avoid making any unnecessary moves.

 

The current bench is about the best that can be hoped for with 4 guys, role wise - a backup C, really good glove IF (that can play SS well), versatile glove with a decent bat, and a good bat that can play some 1b. Obviously almost anyone can be upgraded, but that isn't exactly easy.

[yarnivek1972]

 

If the Twins move on from Eduardo Escobar, it's because they have talented young players that need to get a shot, not because Escobar sucks. Esco would indeed be snapped up immediately if released, for he is a versatile super-sub with pop in his bat. There's always a market for guys like that. 

 

That said, Nico Goodrum is a super-sub type, good glove with some pop. His AAA average is unimpressive, but he might round out well at the mlb level. Engelb Vielma is another option, but he's too much like a clone of Adrianza. Slick glove, slap hitter. Could Nick Gordon survive at the mlb level? Sure, but the Twins are being extra-careful with their top prospect. They don't want Gordon to suffer the kind of frustrations Buxton is going through, so they're letting him get lots of at-bats in AA to solidify his confidence. On the other hand, if Gordon goes on a tear, like jacking his average above .350, then we might see him pretty soon. Hey kid, wanna cuppa coffee? Start mashing some baseballs. 

 

 

To me, the term "super sub" implies a guy that is good enough to be a regular starter and perhaps maybe even be the guy who gives most of the rest of the regulars a day off.

 

IMO that isn't Escobar.  Even at his BEST, you are talking about a barely replacement level hitter (.709 career OPS vs LH starting pitchers).  He's even worse vs RHP, which is what 65% or more starters in MLB are.  YEs, I think it is legit to pigeon hole numbers vs STARTING pitchers if the implication is that Escobar is a "super sub".  A lot of hitters can beat up on mediocre middle relievers.  How you do against STARTERS determines whether or not you deserve to be one.

 

 

IMO Escobar is a back up infielder, nothing more.  If you are expecting consistent offensive contribution from your back up infielder, you are setting yourself (and your team) up for failure.  To that extent, Adrianza and Escobar clearly overlap roles.  Adrianza is without a doubt the superior defensive player.  And while he really hasn't had much of an opportunity to display it, the "eye test" sure suggests that he is fast.  Times he's made routine plays at first look very close, etc.

 

Point being, would the Twins be better served with Zach Granite on the roster?  Possibly.  Given Byron Buxton's penchant for crashing into walls, perhaps most definitely.  But wouldn't Palka provide more punch?  Perhaps, but wouldn't he also duplicate Kennys Vargas?  BH Park?  OK.  To do what? The Twins already have 2 (3 if you include Grossman) DH/1B types.  How do balance playing time for a 4th?  I know many have suggested cutting Vargas.  You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but I pretty strongly believe that he is a better hitter than Park.  One of Falvey's most noteworthy actions was to NOT add Park to the 40 man roster this spring.  If he wouldn't do it when Park was hot, why would he when he is not?  btw, Park's numbers in AAA this year are lower than Vargas'.  Park has about 10 more PA.

 

Would that disrupt Granite's development?  Development for what?  First off, he projects as a reserve type.  Second, he's older than 2 of the 3 current OF starters and less than a year younger than the third - who has roughly 2 seasons at the MLB level under his belt.

 

So, yeah, if someone makes an offer for Escobar, you'd better believe I'm listening.  Right now, I doubt any offers are coming in.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

IMO that isn't Escobar.  Even at his BEST, you are talking about a barely replacement level hitter (.709 career OPS vs LH starting pitchers).

Whoa, that's a pretty arbitrary stat to break out to make Escobar look bad.

 

If you're going to break out starters, what happens when you cut out those terrible early seasons when Escobar was in his early 20s?

 

For example, Escobar had an OPS well over .800 against LHP in 2014 and an OPS around .780 against LHP in 2015. He was bad at everything in 2016. This season, he is once again hitting LHP well in a SSSS.

 

What he did in 2012 as a 23 year old doesn't really matter much.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Whoa, that's a pretty arbitrary stat to break out to make Escobar look bad.

 

If you're going to break out starters, what happens when you cut out those terrible early seasons when Escobar was in his early 20s?

 

For example, Escobar had an OPS well over .800 against LHP in 2014 and an OPS around .780 against LHP in 2015. He was bad at everything in 2016. This season, he is once again hitting LHP well in a SSSS.

 

What he did in 2012 as a 23 year old doesn't really matter much.

 

 

He's still a back up for a reason.  That reason being he isn't good enough to start more than once a week.  Maybe twice.

[Doomtints]

Escobar is not an exciting player but he is good enough for his role as a backup utility guy.  He's not going anywhere.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

He's still a back up for a reason.  That reason being he isn't good enough to start more than once a week.  Maybe twice.

Well, sure. And that's all the Twins need him for right now. He's a somewhat capable guy all-around. He can field well enough to not embarrass himself and he can hit enough to not embarrass himself.

 

That's a pretty solid backup guy.