About that farm system..

[Riverbrian]

 

Spot on. That's what kills me...how can a Boston have so much minor league talent, compared to the Twins? That's not just luck.

 

They appear to have turned on all the spigots.

 

They drafted OK... Made some mistakes but overall OK. 

 

It's a nice bonus when a 5th rounder like Betts can turn into Betts.

 

They hit the IFA's real hard... exceeding limits to get the players they wanted. Some didn't work out but they kept diving in and some obviously paid off. 

 

And perhaps most importantly... they kept a strong major league roster in place and this made them fearless when it came to parting with some of them. 

 

The Twins (currently debated) issues in my opinion... probably stem from the major league rosters. We never really had decent chips to trade at the MLB level to aid the restocking and therefore... also never had the strength to comfortably part with prospects at the same time.

 

That turns off an important spigot. 

[USAFChief]

Not diving headfirst (and wallet first) into Intl FAs has been a huge, penny wise and pound foolish mistake, IMO.

[Riverbrian]

 

Not diving headfirst (and wallet first) into Intl FAs has been a huge, penny wise and pound foolish mistake, IMO.

 

I know its Mothers Day but I'm gonna talk about my Dad. 

 

My Dad was and is Honorable... Hard working... Straight Forward,, Trust Worthy... Intelligent and dependable.

 

I once took him to a restaurant and I bought him a $10 Hamburger. I bought it for him but he couldn't get over it. In his mind... he could not justify a $10 Hamburger and it didn't matter if it was someone else's money. 

 

I've never met Terry Ryan but after listening to his interviews, reading his quotes in the paper and watching him run a franchise.

 

I get the impression that Terry Ryan was and is a lot like my Dad. 

 

I've always liked Terry Ryan for these reasons but I wouldn't want my Dad running the Twins. 

 

 

[Doomtints]

We heard a lot over the past few years about how TR wasn't pursuing free agency or trading because he was keeping the minor leagues fresh.

 

Seems this wasn't quite working out either.

 

Water under the bridge, there is fresh blood in management who can work on building the team again instead of doing whatever it was that Ryan was doing.

[jimmer]

 

I know its Mothers Day but I'm gonna talk about my Dad. 

 

My Dad was and is Honorable... Hard working... Straight Forward,, Trust Worthy... Intelligent and dependable.

 

I once took him to a restaurant and I bought him a $10 Hamburger. I bought it for him but he couldn't get over it. In his mind... he could not justify a $10 Hamburger and it didn't matter if it was someone else's money. 

 

I've never met Terry Ryan but after listening to his interviews, reading his quotes in the paper and watching him run a franchise.

 

I get the impression that Terry Ryan was and is a lot like my Dad. 

 

I've always liked Terry Ryan for these reasons but I wouldn't want my Dad running the Twins. 

Speaking of $10 hamburgers, I had a couple great ones at Lucky 13 in Salt Lake City yesterday (well, actually half of one, half of the other.  My buddy had the other halves).  

 

One had homemade smoked mac n cheese on top of the patty, the other had house-smoked bacon, grilled black forest ham, sauteed onions, cheddar and swiss cheese and Lucky 13 sauce.

 

Best place to get a burger in the state, but you must be 21 years old to go in.

[bird]

 

I know its Mothers Day but I'm gonna talk about my Dad. 

 

My Dad was and is Honorable... Hard working... Straight Forward,, Trust Worthy... Intelligent and dependable.

 

I once took him to a restaurant and I bought him a $10 Hamburger. I bought it for him but he couldn't get over it. In his mind... he could not justify a $10 Hamburger and it didn't matter if it was someone else's money. 

 

I've never met Terry Ryan but after listening to his interviews, reading his quotes in the paper and watching him run a franchise.

 

I get the impression that Terry Ryan was and is a lot like my Dad. 

 

I've always liked Terry Ryan for these reasons but I wouldn't want my Dad running the Twins. 

 

 

Your poor mother.

[ashbury]

Your poor mother.

Sounds like his dad wouldn't have been comfortable with a rich spouse.

[drjim]

I know its Mothers Day but I'm gonna talk about my Dad.

 

My Dad was and is Honorable... Hard working... Straight Forward,, Trust Worthy... Intelligent and dependable.

 

I once took him to a restaurant and I bought him a $10 Hamburger. I bought it for him but he couldn't get over it. In his mind... he could not justify a $10 Hamburger and it didn't matter if it was someone else's money.

 

I've never met Terry Ryan but after listening to his interviews, reading his quotes in the paper and watching him run a franchise.

 

I get the impression that Terry Ryan was and is a lot like my Dad.

 

I've always liked Terry Ryan for these reasons but I wouldn't want my Dad running the Twins.

He had qualities that served him well in the Metrodome days. He got out at the right time.

 

Should have stayed out even though his successor led the franchise into collapse. It wasn't Ryan's fault.

[bird]

Okay, my dad story. He was  a tough old fighter pilot who flew in three conflicts. He loved his scotch, which he bought from the PX in these massive plastic bottles. His four sons would often bring a nice, expensive single malt item over, mainly because we didn't want to drink that rot-gut but we enjoyed a tradition of closing out an evening with him in his study over a scotch.

 

When he died a few years back, we opened an old bomb shelter he'd built and discovered that, when we left the house, he must've immediately taken the expensive stuff down and stored it there and gone back to over-imbibing on his Military Scotch, as we all called it. There were over fifty bottles of good scotch, many unopened.

 

And this is why the farm system is what it is.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, and you don't know the other to be true yet you keep posting it, on and on and on. We don't know what Hammer's value was but the "experts" at mlbtraderumors or baseballpropsectus (I forget which) said it was Sean Gilmartin. We don't know what Plouffe's value was but the market we did see showed it wasn't much. Considering how much griping this place has made over losing Hu, Benson, Reed and ABW, I very much doubt this board would have supported dumping a ML regular for Sean Gilmartin or some other AAAA type.

 

If you think the Twins should have traded Hughes and Hammer and Suzuki etc, you should have threads right now saying the Twins should be trading Castro and Santana and Dozier etc.

I'm not suggesting there was value (a nebulous term), I'm suggesting it was more than nothing. Moves that appear to be nothing yield results all the time. Hell, every pick past the first few rounds is basically devoid of value. Rebuilding teams need to avoid getting nothing, even if the result is a low upside lottery ticket. And for all of those players we chose to get nothing. (Or we will get nothing)

 

And that's what separates right now. All of those players were at a sell high point during a clear rebuilding phase, right now that is up in the air. But I was absolutely banging the drum all offseason about Santana and Dozier for that exact reason this offseason because I saw the team still in a rebuild.

[beckmt]

 

IMO the org still lacks from the same three areas that it has lacked for a decade.

1. Catching depth- absolutely zero noteworthy prospects to speak of. Murphy is nada, Garver is maybe a backup. No starter potential to be found anywhere.

2. Front of the rotation SP- it's better than it has been, but it's still pretty bare.

3. Power- not much

Castro is fine for what the Twins wanted.  Jury out on starting rotation.  Power, Twins have more than they have had for years, what is your complaint is this area.

[gunnarthor]

 

I'm not suggesting there was value (a nebulous term), I'm suggesting it was more than nothing. Moves that appear to be nothing yield results all the time. Hell, every pick past the first few rounds is basically devoid of value. Rebuilding teams need to avoid getting nothing, even if the result is a low upside lottery ticket. And for all of those players we chose to get nothing. (Or we will get nothing)

And that's what separates right now. All of those players were at a sell high point during a clear rebuilding phase, right now that is up in the air. But I was absolutely banging the drum all offseason about Santana and Dozier for that exact reason this offseason because I saw the team still in a rebuild.

There's nebulous value in keeping the players as well. And you should still be beating the drum for Dozier, Castro, Santana etc to be moved today.

[TheLeviathan]

 

There's nebulous value in keeping the players as well. And you should still be beating the drum for Dozier, Castro, Santana etc to be moved today.

 

In Dozier's case I certainly am and I get you're trying to hold on to any thread you can in this, but the truth is that our situation right now is not the same as it was when we should've moved Wilingham or Suzuki.

 

There was little or no reason to keep all of the players on that list except maybe Phil Hughes.  And if Willingham, Plouffe, or Suzuki had netted even one contributor among them, than it's better than nothing.  And that's the point.  Clutching to some trumped up value of keeping them ignores how much value they could've provided if even one of them had, say, given us a functional bullpen arm out of a deal.

 

The real simple point you seem to be railing against is that getting some lottery ticket somethings is better than nothing.  It's an exceedingly low bar we somehow managed to trip over multiple times over the last 5-6 years.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Not sure Hughes in year 1 of a 3 year contract would have netted a ton on the market (same with Willingham).  The only real glaring mistake was Perkins in my opinion. 

 

I would really like to know what Ryan had lined up for Suzuki when he extended him. There was an offer on the table, and one he was willing to take if Suzuki didn't sign the contract. 

[clutterheart]

We all know there was some big draft blunders, and we have a new regime. So, in the new guys we trust!

 

I would find it more interesting to speculate who is in this list in the mid-season:

 

Gordon is going to keep climbing this list.  

LaMonte Wade will be 60-80 mid season top prospect.

I am not sure about Romero.  He needs to figure out how to keep guys off the bases.  

If Lachlan Wells improves he could be 80 - 100 guy

Might Garver crack the list?  Catchers with a .900+ OPS don't grow on trees

Could Granite break through?  - Premium position, and decent numbers.  

 

 

 

[mlhouse]

 

I'm of the school of thought that believes that player development, not drafting and scouting, are the bigger issues for the Twins organization.  Every baseball GM and scout knows who has the best talent.  There may be some slight slot disagreement, but if you take all 30 GMs and ask them to put down the top 50 players in the draft, probably going to see the same 45 names on everyone's list.

 

But the Twins have been largely unable to turn these raw, talented athletes into MLB players.  Why?  I wish I knew.  It could very well be the philosophy of the old regime: pitch to contact and hit the ball the other way.  If you have uber raw talent, odds are you don't pitch to contact or hit the ball the other way very often.

 

The Twins scouting department has been a disaster over the past decade plus.  It doesnt take more than a simple look at the draft to see how it has failed.  Keep in mind that for much of this the Twins have drafted near the top of the order.  In the first round extended, since 2008 the Twins have made 16 selections.   Five of those players have played in the majors:  Aaron Hicks, Alex Wimmers, Kyle Gibson, Jose Berrios, and Byron Buxton.

 

Moving to the 2nd round, a Twins 2nd rounder has not made a  contribution to the Twins since 2005 2nd round pick Kevin Slowey, and has not made a significant contribution since 2003 2nd round pick Scott Baker.   Only JT Chargois, 25 games pitched and Joe Benson 71 ABs have even played for the Twins as 2nd round picks since 2005.  Twelve years.

 

Want more?  Moving to the 3rd round, a Twins 3rd round draft pick has not made a contribution to the Twins since 2005 3rd round pick Brian Duensing.  Tyler Robertson and Pat Dean are the only 3rd round picks that have played for the Twins since 2005.

 

4th Round, 2010 Eddie Rosario has made MLB.  Other than Eddie, the last 4th rounder position player to play for the Twins was drafted in 1996, OF Chad Allen, and the last pitcher from the 4th roudn to play for the Twins was Jason Miller, drafted in 2000.  

 

5th Round:  Tyler Duffey is all we have to show for that round, 2005 5th round pick Steve Tolleson being the last 5th rounder to make it to MLB.

 

6th round:  The Twins have zero 6th round picks on their roster, the last 6th rounders to make the Twins were 2010 Logan Darnell and 2009 Chris Hermann, with 2002 being the last time a 6th round pick made any meaningful contribution, Pat Neshek.

 

7th Round:  The last time a Twins 7th round pick made it to the majors was 1996.

 

8th Round:  Brian Dozier.  If you go past him, the lat Twins 8th round pick to make any contribution to the Twins was 1991, Brad Radke.

 

9th round:  The last time a Twins 9th round pick made it to the majors was 1998.

 

10th Round:   The last time a Twins 10th round draft pick played for the Twins was 1989, Marty Corova.

 

The Twins have not just struck out at the top of the draft order, they have struck out all the way through the upper part of the draft. If you look at how poorly this team has done, the 2011 draft had yielded exactly nothing.  THe 2012 draft were the Twins had the #2 overall pick, three 1st and 2 2nd round picks, the Twins made the disasterous choice to try to convert college relievers into starters that has yielded just the Byron Buxton question mark and the JJ Berrios hesitation.

 

Another aspect about the Twins farm system that most of us ignore is that other than this absolutely failed development process, it serves no other value.  The Twins do not trade their prospects.  A lot fo teams, particularly the rich teams, manage their prospect system as a means of acquiring established major league players feasting on the lower end teams overvaluation of "prospects'.  A lot of their prospects are pushed quickly knowing that prospetive trade partners will look at the age of the prospect pitching in a higher level.  Look at the Mets-Twins trade of Johann Santana for an example.  If Carlos Gomez would have been a Twins prospect he would have been in AA and Deolis Guerra was pushed by the Mets into A+ ball as a 17 year old.  As a Twins prospect he would still have been in the Dominican rookie leagues.

 

 

 

 

[mlhouse]

The other aspect I want to point out from the "hit the other way" issue about Twins prospects is Brian Dozier.  After the Twins drafted him as a college shortstop they basically tried to develop him as a "go the other way" type of middle infielder with middling results. He followed the traditional "Twins Way" in minor league development as a slap hitting middle infielder who didn't strike out that much, drew some walks.  In 1613 minor league plate appearances Dozier hit 16 home runs.

 

When he finally made it to the Twins in 2012, his initial reviews were not that spectacular and it looked like he wasn't really going to be a player with his .603 OPS and .332 SLG on just a marginal at best fielding SS.  

 

What made Brian Dozier into a good major league 2B is that he shedded the Twins Way, gave up the poke it to the opposite field approach, and became a pull hitter that struck out from time to time.   His strike out rate increased significantly, but so did his extra base hits.  IN his rookie season, only 23% of Dozier's hits were for extra bases.  In his second year, 40% of his hits were for extra bases and he hit more home runs than he did in his entire minor league career.  

 

If Dozier followed the "Twins Way" his baseball career in Minnesota would have been over in 2013.  

[drjim]

 

The Twins scouting department has been a disaster over the past decade plus.  It doesnt take more than a simple look at the draft to see how it has failed.  Keep in mind that for much of this the Twins have drafted near the top of the order.  In the first round extended, since 2008 the Twins have made 16 selections.   Five of those players have played in the majors:  Aaron Hicks, Alex Wimmers, Kyle Gibson, Jose Berrios, and Byron Buxton.

 

Moving to the 2nd round, a Twins 2nd rounder has not made a  contribution to the Twins since 2005 2nd round pick Kevin Slowey, and has not made a significant contribution since 2003 2nd round pick Scott Baker.   Only JT Chargois, 25 games pitched and Joe Benson 71 ABs have even played for the Twins as 2nd round picks since 2005.  Twelve years.

 

Want more?  Moving to the 3rd round, a Twins 3rd round draft pick has not made a contribution to the Twins since 2005 3rd round pick Brian Duensing.  Tyler Robertson and Pat Dean are the only 3rd round picks that have played for the Twins since 2005.

 

4th Round, 2010 Eddie Rosario has made MLB.  Other than Eddie, the last 4th rounder position player to play for the Twins was drafted in 1996, OF Chad Allen, and the last pitcher from the 4th roudn to play for the Twins was Jason Miller, drafted in 2000.  

 

5th Round:  Tyler Duffey is all we have to show for that round, 2005 5th round pick Steve Tolleson being the last 5th rounder to make it to MLB.

 

6th round:  The Twins have zero 6th round picks on their roster, the last 6th rounders to make the Twins were 2010 Logan Darnell and 2009 Chris Hermann, with 2002 being the last time a 6th round pick made any meaningful contribution, Pat Neshek.

 

7th Round:  The last time a Twins 7th round pick made it to the majors was 1996.

 

8th Round:  Brian Dozier.  If you go past him, the lat Twins 8th round pick to make any contribution to the Twins was 1991, Brad Radke.

 

9th round:  The last time a Twins 9th round pick made it to the majors was 1998.

 

10th Round:   The last time a Twins 10th round draft pick played for the Twins was 1989, Marty Corova.

 

The Twins have not just struck out at the top of the draft order, they have struck out all the way through the upper part of the draft. If you look at how poorly this team has done, the 2011 draft had yielded exactly nothing.  THe 2012 draft were the Twins had the #2 overall pick, three 1st and 2 2nd round picks, the Twins made the disasterous choice to try to convert college relievers into starters that has yielded just the Byron Buxton question mark and the JJ Berrios hesitation.

 

Another aspect about the Twins farm system that most of us ignore is that other than this absolutely failed development process, it serves no other value.  The Twins do not trade their prospects.  A lot fo teams, particularly the rich teams, manage their prospect system as a means of acquiring established major league players feasting on the lower end teams overvaluation of "prospects'.  A lot of their prospects are pushed quickly knowing that prospetive trade partners will look at the age of the prospect pitching in a higher level.  Look at the Mets-Twins trade of Johann Santana for an example.  If Carlos Gomez would have been a Twins prospect he would have been in AA and Deolis Guerra was pushed by the Mets into A+ ball as a 17 year old.  As a Twins prospect he would still have been in the Dominican rookie leagues.

 

Any sense of how this hit rate compares to other franchises?

[mlhouse]

 

Any sense of how this hit rate compares to other franchises?

 

The problem isn't the comp to other franchises, it is the comp to what the Twins need to create a competitive team.  It is the lifeblood of this system.  

 

We have really only three ways of acquiring talent:

 

The MLB draft and minor league development

The mid-level foreign market

The low level free agent market

 

To become a truly competitive team we ahve to find out best players in the first two.  Our draft has been a disaster as outlined above.  Our foreign acquisitions have been hit or miss.  Sano and Kepler were great signings. Our Asian signings, not so much.

 

The Twins need to stop pretending they are a competitive team with their 19-15 record and concentrate on rebuilding for the long run otherwise this cycle is going to spin for a long time.

[drjim]

 

The problem isn't the comp to other franchises, it is the comp to what the Twins need to create a competitive team.  It is the lifeblood of this system.  

 

We have really only three ways of acquiring talent:

 

The MLB draft and minor league development

The mid-level foreign market

The low level free agent market

 

To become a truly competitive team we ahve to find out best players in the first two.  Our draft has been a disaster as outlined above.  Our foreign acquisitions have been hit or miss.  Sano and Kepler were great signings. Our Asian signings, not so much.

 

The Twins need to stop pretending they are a competitive team with their 19-15 record and concentrate on rebuilding for the long run otherwise this cycle is going to spin for a long time.

 

I don't agree with that. Other teams on the same level with the same resources are plenty successful, and likely don't draft all that better than the Twins.

 

I'm not sure our drafts have been a disaster. They certainly aren't great, but are likely somewhere in the middle, maybe slightly below what would be expected. It is other methods of talent acquisition (cough, trades, cough) that have set them back relative to similar franchises.

 

On the last note, I think they can keep pretending they are competitive at the moment. They have a very solid, emerging offense that can carry them. There is probably only one really good team in the AL (Astros), and the rest of the teams have plenty of holes. To say the Twins have to blow it up right now really understates the potential of their everyday players and also overstates the position of the rest of the league.

[gunnarthor]

 

 

 

There was little or no reason to keep all of the players on that list except maybe Phil Hughes.  And if Willingham, Plouffe, or Suzuki had netted even one contributor among them, than it's better than nothing.  And that's the point.  Clutching to some trumped up value of keeping them ignores how much value they could've provided if even one of them had, say, given us a functional bullpen arm out of a deal.

 

If that's what you think, fine. I think you're wrong. That's fine too. But if you think moving Suzuki or Hammer for AAAA filer, which is what you'd got, when Hammer and Suzuki weren't blocking anyone, you should certainly be pushing for the Twins to move Castro to free up Garver, Santiago to free up Mejia and Dozier to bring up Gordon or Vielma.  It's not like Castro's overly good and Santiago is all luck at this point, anyway.  Dozier is one of only three legitimate trade chips we've had so moving him should be a priority during the season.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The other aspect I want to point out from the "hit the other way" issue about Twins prospects is Brian Dozier.  After the Twins drafted him as a college shortstop they basically tried to develop him as a "go the other way" type of middle infielder with middling results. He followed the traditional "Twins Way" in minor league development as a slap hitting middle infielder who didn't strike out that much, drew some walks.  In 1613 minor league plate appearances Dozier hit 16 home runs.

 

When he finally made it to the Twins in 2012, his initial reviews were not that spectacular and it looked like he wasn't really going to be a player with his .603 OPS and .332 SLG on just a marginal at best fielding SS.  

 

What made Brian Dozier into a good major league 2B is that he shedded the Twins Way, gave up the poke it to the opposite field approach, and became a pull hitter that struck out from time to time.   His strike out rate increased significantly, but so did his extra base hits.  IN his rookie season, only 23% of Dozier's hits were for extra bases.  In his second year, 40% of his hits were for extra bases and he hit more home runs than he did in his entire minor league career.  

 

If Dozier followed the "Twins Way" his baseball career in Minnesota would have been over in 2013.  

It's kind of hard to fault the Twins for preaching the "Twins Way" when it was the Twins coaching staff - Brunansky in particuar - that changed Dozier's swing and turned him into the hitter he became in 2013.

 

The Twins haven't hammered away at the "hit oppo" approach in years. Look at the players they've had in the past 6-7 years: Dozier, Plouffe, Sano, et al. They all derive most of their power from pulling the ball while Plouffe and Dozier were dead pull hitters. Sano is just so strong that no matter where he hits the ball, it has a decent chance of leaving the park.

[Mike Sixel]

 

If that's what you think, fine. I think you're wrong. That's fine too. But if you think moving Suzuki or Hammer for AAAA filer, which is what you'd got, when Hammer and Suzuki weren't blocking anyone, you should certainly be pushing for the Twins to move Castro to free up Garver, Santiago to free up Mejia and Dozier to bring up Gordon or Vielma.  It's not like Castro's overly good and Santiago is all luck at this point, anyway.  Dozier is one of only three legitimate trade chips we've had so moving him should be a priority during the season.

 

Or, they are at a different point in the rebuild, and the decisions are different. I don't know one way or the other, but this team is very different than those teams.

 

Regardless of the causes, this team lacked talent for several years. They currently have quite a bit of hitting talent (and fielding), but are sorely lacking pitching talent. 

 

But saying that the team should have traded guys in the beginning of a rebuild, is very different than saying they should trade guys now (depending on where you think they are in the cycle).

[gunnarthor]

 

Or, they are at a different point in the rebuild, and the decisions are different. I don't know one way or the other, but this team is very different than those teams.

 

Regardless of the causes, this team lacked talent for several years. They currently have quite a bit of hitting talent (and fielding), but are sorely lacking pitching talent. 

 

But saying that the team should have traded guys in the beginning of a rebuild, is very different than saying they should trade guys now (depending on where you think they are in the cycle).

Maybe, maybe not. But at a certain point, you also have to have a ML team. No fanbase should have to go through what the Astros fans did.  As bad as last years Twins were, the Astros had three teams in a row that were worse. They got 0 ratings and fan attendance went to the bottom of the league. Even with one of the more exciting young teams, the fans haven't fully come back (and no, they aren't an exciting young team because they lost 108+ games all those years).  Moving Hammer for a AAAA type wasn't a great move and complaining about it several years later gets rather annoying. The Twins traded away almost all vets. Unlike other teams, they really only had three strong trade chips - Perkins (pre-injury), Span and Dozier.  I think Santana is now in that class.  They decided to keep Perkins on a team friendly deal, the Span trade didn't work, they shopped Dozier but didn't find a deal and they could still move him and/or Santana.  

[bird]

 

Any sense of how this hit rate compares to other franchises?

 

 

Of course not. What was described is the "disaster" that is every organization's scouting staff. It's just crude, anecdotal stuff. A simple look back indeed, but that's all it takes to draw the conclusion that they have bad people populating their sizable scouting department. Context and perspective are irrelevant I guess.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Of course not. What was described is the "disaster" that is every organization's scouting staff. It's just crude, anecdotal stuff. A simple look back indeed, but that's all it takes to draw the conclusion that they have bad people populating their sizable scouting department. Context and perspective are irrelevant I guess.

 

I think that is unfair to the poster, this is a site to talk about baseball, not do hours of research on every post made. It seems reasonable, to me, to question their scouting, after the last 5-6 years of "success".

[howieramone2]

 

I'm not suggesting there was value (a nebulous term), I'm suggesting it was more than nothing. Moves that appear to be nothing yield results all the time. Hell, every pick past the first few rounds is basically devoid of value. Rebuilding teams need to avoid getting nothing, even if the result is a low upside lottery ticket. And for all of those players we chose to get nothing. (Or we will get nothing)

And that's what separates right now. All of those players were at a sell high point during a clear rebuilding phase, right now that is up in the air. But I was absolutely banging the drum all offseason about Santana and Dozier for that exact reason this offseason because I saw the team still in a rebuild.

Trading Santana and Dozier for pie-in-the-sky means we are probably looking at 2020 or so to compete. We are in the hunt as we speak and I am enjoying every minute of it. I distinctly recall, you were one of the members screaming the loudest in 2013 and 2014 that we had to win now. Why are you finally embracing, and why would you extend the rebuild in year 6.

[bird]

 

It's kind of hard to fault the Twins for preaching the "Twins Way" when it was the Twins coaching staff - Brunansky in particuar - that changed Dozier's swing and turned him into the hitter he became in 2013.

 

The Twins haven't hammered away at the "hit oppo" approach in years. Look at the players they've had in the past 6-7 years: Dozier, Plouffe, Sano, et al. They all derive most of their power from pulling the ball while Plouffe and Dozier were dead pull hitters. Sano is just so strong that no matter where he hits the ball, it has a decent chance of leaving the park.

 

 

It seems to me the problem Dozier was having had mostly to do with plate coverage. That's the talk I remember at least. Holes in his swing were being exploited. Because that's what the competition tries to do. Whereas most hitters solve this problem of avoiding called strikes, by learning to take that outside pitch the other way among other adjustments, Dozier went in a slightly different direction, right?

 

Or am I wrong about this?

[drjim]

 

I think that is unfair to the poster, this is a site to talk about baseball, not do hours of research on every post made. It seems reasonable, to me, to question their scouting, after the last 5-6 years of "success".

 

Of course it is reasonable to question the scouting. But to call something a disaster probably needs more evidence and context, otherwise people will rightfully question your conclusion.

[gunnarthor]

 

I think that is unfair to the poster, this is a site to talk about baseball, not do hours of research on every post made. It seems reasonable, to me, to question their scouting, after the last 5-6 years of "success".

Well, one of the things that bugs me is people complaining about the state of the farm system (the title of this thread) and then saying the Twins have been bad for five or six years and ignoring how those two facts don't line up.