Brandon Kintzler in Star Tribune

[BK432]

Read the article here in the Star Tribune.

 

I mean, yes, Kintzler has effectively done the closer job in April and gotten guys out, not blown a save, etc. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking he's really all that good. Any closer can go a month and get a little lucky like Kintzler has (.188 BABIP against vs career mark of .300, 0.79 ERA vs 4.41 FIP). And I'm really not trying to knock Kintzler, he's fine. He's just perfectly ordinary.

 

This stretch shouldn't be used to balance the ledger when bats start to make louder contact, balls find holes, etc. Because they will, inevitably. Instead, we can view it as buying some time, getting the more exciting arms ready to play a larger role.

 

We can thank Kintzler for coming out and getting the outs and buying us that time. That's fine, but let's not pretend there's not some luck at play here. Because if we pretend it's skill, I really fear it will cause us to delay decisions down the road.

 

 

[drjim]

Has anyone really said otherwise? There's a reason he wasn't extended last offseason.

[gheggs42]

The real question is: will he fetch anything at the deadline if he somehow manages a sub 2 ERA despite the peripherals saying otherwise?

[BK432]

 

Has anyone really said otherwise? There's a reason he wasn't extended last offseason.

 

True enough. Rand seemed to be turning down that road, however, and it got my hackles up!

[Linus]

Well he was effective last year and so far this year. Seems weird to minimize his contributions since he is one of the few pleasant surprises this team has had over the last several years.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Let's not forget that Kintzler was pretty solid in his Milwaukee career too. The primary reason he got cut there was injury. I don't think he will continue to be perfect, of course, but he should be a solid bullpen piece. Perhaps not unlike Matt Guerrier back in the day.

[Shaitan]

Let's not forget that, except for a select few elite closers, basically anybody pitching the 9th has similar success rates of around, I forget, is it 85%? 

 

My favorite part about Eddie Guardado as closer is that he proved anybody can be a closer. It's just like any other inning. Throwing 95 is a nice bonus, but it's not a requirement.

[Twinfan & Dad]

Sorry but have to disagree about your assesment on Kintzler. This guy knows how to pitch. He is not your typical closer with 1 or 2 great pitches but he gets the job done with movement,change of speed and location. In addition we do not have anybody ready to assume the role right now. If and when one of our young arms seems ready for the role, Kintzler can always move to the 7th or 8th inning spot while serving as our backup plan if our future closer should fail.

[yarnivek1972]

Sorry but have to disagree about your assesment on Kintzler. This guy knows how to pitch. He is not your typical closer with 1 or 2 great pitches but he gets the job done with movement,change of speed and location. In addition we do not have anybody ready to assume the role right now. If and when one of our young arms seems ready for the role, Kintzler can always move to the 7th or 8th inning spot while serving as our backup plan if our future closer should fail.

No, he really can't. Kintzler will be okay as long as he is used strictly coming into a "clean" inning. If a team tries to use him coming in with runners on base, his failure rate will increase. Sure, he can occasionally get that GIDP. But, because he can't get a K when he needs it, he's more likely to give up a run if someone is on base. Keep in mind, sometimes runs score on outs. Happens all the time. Pretty rare on strikeouts - unless Castro is catching, then sometimes two can score on a strikeout.

[gil4]

 

Keep in mind, sometimes runs score on outs. Happens all the time. Pretty rare on strikeouts - unless Castro is catching, then sometimes two can score on a strikeout.

It sounds like you have a specific event in mind with Castro, but I must have missed it.  What happened?

[yarnivek1972]

It sounds like you have a specific event in mind with Castro, but I must have missed it. What happened?

A week or so ago, two runs scored on a passed ball by Castro. I think Tonkin was pitching. Twins ended up recording 4 strikeouts in the inning. Not sure what game. One in the Ranger series, maybe.

[Riverbrian]

He has been a success ever since he put on a Twins uniform.

 

He gets applause from me.

[amjgt]

Detroit, two Sundays ago. I suffered through that game in person

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Read the article here in the Star Tribune.

 

I mean, yes, Kintzler has effectively done the closer job in April and gotten guys out, not blown a save, etc. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking he's really all that good. Any closer can go a month and get a little lucky like Kintzler has (.188 BABIP against vs career mark of .300, 0.79 ERA vs 4.41 FIP). And I'm really not trying to knock Kintzler, he's fine. He's just perfectly ordinary.

 

This stretch shouldn't be used to balance the ledger when bats start to make louder contact, balls find holes, etc. Because they will, inevitably. Instead, we can view it as buying some time, getting the more exciting arms ready to play a larger role.

 

We can thank Kintzler for coming out and getting the outs and buying us that time. That's fine, but let's not pretend there's not some luck at play here. Because if we pretend it's skill, I really fear it will cause us to delay decisions down the road.

The thing is, you just described to me what I want from a "closer".

 

Pitching one inning with no one on base and not giving up multiple runs isn't that hard. Most competent relievers should be able to do it at an 80%+ success rate. Kintzler keeps the ball on the ground at a good clip and doesn't allow cheap homers, which helps him in close games with no one on base.

 

If one guy is going to lay claim to the ninth inning every time your team has a lead, that guy should be your second or third best reliever. Leave the best and second-best guys for innings 6-8 and critical men-on-base critical situations.

[BK432]

 

The thing is, you just described to me what I want from a "closer".

 

Pitching one inning with no one on base and not giving up multiple runs isn't that hard. Most competent relievers should be able to do it at an 80%+ success rate. Kintzler keeps the ball on the ground at a good clip and doesn't allow cheap homers, which helps him in close games with no one on base.

 

If one guy is going to lay claim to the ninth inning every time your team has a lead, that guy should be your second or third best reliever. Leave the best and second-best guys for innings 6-8 and critical men-on-base critical situations.

 

This is a great point which I agree with.....if we truly think Molitor is going to run his bullpen in this way. If so, I'm on board.

[amjgt]

Brandon Kintzler: Lacks stuff. Gets job done

Michael Tonkin: Has Stuff. Fails at job.

 

I'll take Kintzler.

[theBOMisthebomb]

Who,pray tell, are "the more exciting arms ready to play a larger role..."

[Oldgoat_MN]

Thanks BK432. I had never looked up Kintzler's stats. Turns out he was hit hard as a rookie and again in 2015. From 2011 through 2014 he had an ERA of 3.08, an FIP of 3.53, a WHIP of 1.212 and an ERA+ of 126 in 166.2 innings.

Pretty good numbers. Here's one the old FO got right.

[Twinfan & Dad]

Much has been said about this guy not being able to pitch. 3 days and 3 saves. Not going to win the beauty contest but he is a keeper. Might be as a 7th or 8th inning guy but has the mental makeup.

[Seth Stohs]

I just tweeted something to the effect... when will Twins fans stop worrying so much about what Kintzler doesn't do (get a lot of strikeouts) and start realizing that he's been really good for the last year (and was good for Milwaukee before his knee injury for a decent amount of time). 

 

The guy has incredible movement and sink on a 93 mph fastball. He gets a lot of ground balls. He's poised and pretty calm. He's got a closer's mentality. He fields his position. He generally avoids solid contact . Will he have an occasional game where he gets hit hard, or when not missing bats will mean that a few seeing-eye singles or bloops will cost them... but the hard-throwing closer types have those games too.

 

I think it's time to stop worrying about Kintzler as closer and start pushing him for an All Star appearances. (OK, maybe not yet) But until he has a bad week or two as the closer... roll with it. 

[Twinfan & Dad]

When you don't consistently make solid contact on a closer it definitely means he has an understanding of pitching. Strikeout or not Give this guy some credit. Thanks Seth

[yarnivek1972]

Just don't try to bring him in with runners on base. Because of all the contact, he's more likely to fail under those circumstances than a guy who can get a strikeout when he needs to.

 

Bringing him in to a clean inning, he'll be as successful as almost any other closer.

[Twinfan & Dad]

Read the article here in the Star Tribune.

 

I mean, yes, Kintzler has effectively done the closer job in April and gotten guys out, not blown a save, etc. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking he's really all that good. Any closer can go a month and get a little lucky like Kintzler has (.188 BABIP against vs career mark of .300, 0.79 ERA vs 4.41 FIP). And I'm really not trying to knock Kintzler, he's fine. He's just perfectly ordinary.

 

This stretch shouldn't be used to balance the ledger when bats start to make louder contact, balls find holes, etc. Because they will, inevitably. Instead, we can view it as buying some time, getting the more exciting arms ready to play a larger role.

 

We can thank Kintzler for coming out and getting the outs and buying us that time. That's fine, but let's not pretend there's not some luck at play here. Because if we pretend it's skill, I really fear it will cause us to delay decisions down the road.

 

Because if we pretend it's skill you said! How do you save 3 games in a row and 1 being a 5 out save if you have no skill and all luck? Come on man!

[Seth Stohs]

 

Just don't try to bring him in with runners on base. Because of all the contact, he's more likely to fail under those circumstances than a guy who can get a strikeout when he needs to.

Bringing him in to a clean inning, he'll be as successful as almost any other closer.

 

Like the other night when they brought him in with the tying run on second and the go-ahead run on 1st and one out in the 8th, and he got the final five outs to preserve the win...???

[USAFChief]

The real question is: will he fetch anything at the deadline if he somehow manages a sub 2 ERA despite the peripherals saying otherwise?

this is snark, right?

 

Because nobody would talk seriously about stripping the team while they're in first place, would they?

[drjim]

this is snark, right?

 

Because nobody would talk seriously about stripping the team while they're in first place, would they?

Winning is not as fun as making trades.

 

The Twins have obvious holes, but every team in the AL has holes.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Read the article here in the Star Tribune.

 

I mean, yes, Kintzler has effectively done the closer job in April and gotten guys out, not blown a save, etc. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking he's really all that good. Any closer can go a month and get a little lucky like Kintzler has (.188 BABIP against vs career mark of .300, 0.79 ERA vs 4.41 FIP). And I'm really not trying to knock Kintzler, he's fine. He's just perfectly ordinary.

 

This stretch shouldn't be used to balance the ledger when bats start to make louder contact, balls find holes, etc. Because they will, inevitably. Instead, we can view it as buying some time, getting the more exciting arms ready to play a larger role.

 

We can thank Kintzler for coming out and getting the outs and buying us that time. That's fine, but let's not pretend there's not some luck at play here. Because if we pretend it's skill, I really fear it will cause us to delay decisions down the road.

dont confuse "closer" and "best reliever". The closer doesn't come in in the 8th when the heart of the order is due up to bat, nor does the closer come in the middle of the seventh with 2 on and no out, expected to strike out the next 3 batters.

 

The closer comes in high pressure situations, but almost always the beginning of the inning and almost always a lead.

 

Kintzler has proven effective in the role over close to a full season. Is he their best reliever? No. Should his role be their best reliever? No. He's effective, that's all I care about.

 

Agreed with others, need more options for 7th and 8th innings. Kintzler is good in his role

[amjgt]

I'd argue he's 3rd or 4th most important reason we are where we are in the standings.

 

Behind Ervin and Miguel, and close with Santiago

[Mike Sixel]

As I said in the other thread, whichever scout said "sign Kintzler" deserves some credit!

 

He might not be elite, but he's good. Having 20 good, and 5 very good to great, players is how you win baseball games.

[gheggs42]

 

this is snark, right?

Because nobody would talk seriously about stripping the team while they're in first place, would they?

I don't think the two outcomes are necessarily dependent of each other.