Time for Gibson to go/Gibson optioned to AAA

[yarnivek1972]

he's got options... if this is true, I would use them yesterday. He'll start listening when he's on long bus rides and not collecting a major league paycheck.

Pretty sure he still collects the MLB paycheck. Guys that have hit arbitration usually don't have minor league clauses in their contracts.

[Willihammer]

Miss the game? Guess Gibson's line today.

Go ahead guess.

Did you guess 5.1 inn, 5 hits, 3ER, 3 BB, 1K. 85 pitches? 

You were right!

[Willihammer]

Before the game Provus asked Molitor why he elected to grab another bullpen arm for Santiago's spot when they were going against the worst offensive team.

 

All he had to say was, "Gibby."

[bluechipper]

I'd say Gibson bought himself another start with his bad, but not terrible, game tonight. At leastMejia pitched really well for Rochester, keeping the pressure on him.

[magiklair]

He's pitched almost 600 innings for the twins. What more do you want to see?

 

Career ERA of 4.72. Send him to triple A.. Then call up Berrios.. Give him a shot..

[old nurse]

 

Not currently, but there was a lot of chatter a year or two ago when he was tearing up the minors about him having #2 upside (hell go back and look at the threads here, people were calling him a future ace, I said he had #2 upside instead and got skewered for being negative on him)

If Berrios was viewed as a #1 or #2 starter he would have been a top 5 prospect. He wasn't ranked that high. That just leaves fan's thinking they know more than baseball scouts

[drjim]

Miss the game? Guess Gibson's line today.

Go ahead guess.

Did you guess 5.1 inn, 5 hits, 3ER, 3 BB, 1K. 85 pitches?

You were right!

Just good enough to hang around for a couple more starts.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Gibson increased his already high career WHIP. His career ERA as well.

I didn't see the game. Was there a reason Molitor took Gibson out after 85 pitches, the last 3 being strikes?

[bighat]

 

Good thing they still have Dozier and didn't trade him for pitching.

 

An Escobar-Polanco middle infield wouldn't be awful IMO.  

[killertwinfan]

 

Gibson increased his already high career WHIP. His career ERA as well.

I didn't see the game. Was there a reason Molitor took Gibson out after 85 pitches, the last 3 being strikes?

I am not sure but, it certainly wasn't an inspiring outing.  He did have the the Royals chasing pitches out of the strike zone, but seemed to be missing his spots.  Also, the Royals were making good contact on pitchers pitches.  I think Perez's 5th inning AB was Gibson's last out was on a low FB that he drove to the warning track in left.  I would bet that this outing was more lucky, than better. It looked like the same Gibson.  I agreed with the quick hook.  

[Willihammer]

By the way if anyone does miss the game, MLB.com's "media center" has 10-minute condensed recaps that are pretty cool. Not sure if enough people know about this:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mediacenter/index.jsp?mp4=true#date=4/28/2017

[FormerMinnasotan]

What's sad with Gibson is when he initially was coming through the ranks of the minors he was compared to a Scott Baker like pitcher, not over powering, yet able to have some ability to get strike outs. However Gibson has pitched more like Nick Blackburn than Scott Baker.

[ashbury]

Miss the game? Guess Gibson's line today.

Go ahead guess.

Did you guess 5.1 inn, 5 hits, 3ER, 3 BB, 1K. 85 pitches? 

You were right!

http://memeguy.com/photos/images/still-one-of-the-greatest-gifs-of-all-time-imo-49611.gif

Lemme think. A game WHIP of 1.5, leading to a game ERA of 5.06, if I did the math in my head correctly. Sounds about right for our Kyle.

[nytwinsfan]

Send him to AAA to work on some new things (e.g., using his curveball and changeup more and better) and bring up Berrios or Mejia (or Turley!). This is basicallly asking for a loss every 5 days.

[Vanimal46]

 

Send him to AAA to work on some new things (e.g., using his curveball and changeup more and better) and bring up Berrios or Mejia (or Turley!). This is basicallly asking for a loss every 5 days.

 

If Gibson is not listening to advice from the MLB coaching staff, would he listen to anything the AAA coaches have to say? 

[nytwinsfan]

 

If Gibson is not listening to advice from the MLB coaching staff, would he listen to anything the AAA coaches have to say? 

 

It isn't about listening to advice, it is having a chance to try out new things repeatedly in a situation where he can make mistakes and it isn't the end of the world.

[goulik]

By the way if anyone does miss the game, MLB.com's "media center" has 10-minute condensed recaps that are pretty cool. Not sure if enough people know about this:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mediacenter/index.jsp?mp4=true#date=4/28/2017

Watching the video, Gibson looked pretty pedestrian.

[ashbury]

Watching the video, Gibson looked pretty pedestrian.

No, but three of his opposing batters were: Hosmer, Bonifacio and Gordon all walked. Also, Moustakis surely must be pedestrian by now, because he has completely lost his wheels.

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If Gibson is not listening to advice from the MLB coaching staff, would he listen to anything the AAA coaches have to say?

i would send him to AAA for the in case of emergency break glass situation.

 

No depth ready right now behind Berrios and Mejia and it's not like you can wreck the guy by disrupting his development plan

[KirbyDome89]

Buxton got a lot of love (deservedly so) for bucking the hitting approach the Twins were pushing on him and going back to what he was comfortable with and what made him successful. I can't get too worked up if Gibson trusts himself more in this situation. It clearly isn't working but I have just as much faith in Gibson righting himself as I do in the Twins turning him around; i.e., none. 

[Doomtints]

 

I'm not aware of anyone who really believes Berrios has near #1 upside, other than Twins fans that forgot what elite pitching actually looks like. I could understand saying #2 if he's one of those 5% of guys that truly maximizes their talent, but probability says he'd likely top out as a mid-rotation guy if he ever figures it out and sticks in the majors.

 

Harsh.

 

Berrios *is* elite in the minors. Few pitchers have ever been better, even this year. Terrible idea to write him off as being marginal after a failed rookie campaign. 

[ashbury]

Harsh.

 

Berrios *is* elite in the minors. Few pitchers have ever been better, even this year. Terrible idea to write him off as being marginal after a failed rookie campaign. 

Ever? I am curious what you base such a statement on.

 

Looking only at the International League, only in 2016, limiting it only to 22-year old seasons like Berrios's, I see Tyler Glasnow and Luis Severino who have minor league resumes better than Berrios's. Couple of other guys had better years at AAA than he did. I don't see a reason to dig farther. He's a valuable prospect, no question, but why go overboard with the superlatives?

 

Oh, and the post you were replying to had him as mid-rotation with a ceiling at #2 - not "marginal".

[Doomtints]

 

Ever? I am curious what you base such a statement on.

 

Looking only at the International League, only in 2016, limiting it only to 22-year old seasons like Berrios's, I see Tyler Glasnow and Luis Severino who have minor league resumes better than Berrios's. Couple of other guys had better years at AAA than he did. I don't see a reason to dig farther. He's a valuable prospect, no question, but why go overboard with the superlatives?

 

Oh, and the post you were replying to had him as mid-rotation with a ceiling at #2 - not "marginal".

I believe the statement was closer to, "You Twins fans just don't know good pitching. Berrios *might* be a #2 -- if he ever stops sucking (which has a 5% chance of happening)." That's not a compliment and not at all an accurate reflection of Berrios. This is hyperbole, which you seem to be against judging by your signature.

 

I'll look at his results, thank you very much, and not be swayed by a terrible (and not unexpected) rookie campaign in the majors. Two things are obvious to me about Berrios: He has ace potential, and I knew all along he wasn't ready last year. Where he shows control in the minors, he can't hit the strike zone in the majors. He'll get over it.

[glunn]

 

Just good enough to hang around for a couple more starts.

Or maybe he is making progress?

 

Maybe Gibson should be listening to the coaches more.  Maybe he will never be good.  But maybe he is working some things out and will eventually become a decent #3 or #4 starter, or at least have a good enough season to have trade value before the deadline.  Maybe a change of scenery would be good for Gibson in the long run.  It's still early in the season, and I am hoping that he will improve.  At the very least, it seems to me that he deserves another start or two.

 

I also think that sometimes people express certainty in situations that are inherently uncertain, particularly in predicting the future trajectory of a player's career.  An example would be Liriano.  Some people wanted to have him gone forever, then he went on to have some decent stretches with the Pirates.

[GP830]

I take solace in the notion of how many times threads have been made like this, and we all laugh at the end of the year when the guy turns it on and dominates for a stretch.

 

That said, last night was okay. He wasn't amazing by any stretch of the imagination.

[ashbury]

I believe the statement was closer to, "You Twins fans just don't know good pitching. Berrios *might* be a #2 -- if he ever stops sucking (which has a 5% chance of happening)." That's not a compliment and not at all an accurate reflection of Berrios.

That's not an accurate reflection of the post you were responding to, either, since the bolded part was in fact, "if he's one of those 5% of guys that truly maximizes their talent". Please do not put words into people's mouths.

[drjim]

 

Or maybe he is making progress?

 

Maybe Gibson should be listening to the coaches more.  Maybe he will never be good.  But maybe he is working some things out and will eventually become a decent #3 or #4 starter, or at least have a good enough season to have trade value before the deadline.  Maybe a change of scenery would be good for Gibson in the long run.  It's still early in the season, and I am hoping that he will improve.  At the very least, it seems to me that he deserves another start or two.

 

I also think that sometimes people express certainty in situations that are inherently uncertain, particularly in predicting the future trajectory of a player's career.  An example would be Liriano.  Some people wanted to have him gone forever, then he went on to have some decent stretches with the Pirates.

 

I'm pro keeping Gibson around for the rest of the year. I just don't see it anymore. It's a shame too, he was the pitcher I had highest hopes for coming into the season.

 

Too hittable, too much nibbling, not enough swing and miss. Tough combo to be successful with.

[glunn]

 

I'm pro keeping Gibson around for the rest of the year. I just don't see it anymore. It's a shame too, he was the pitcher I had highest hopes for coming into the season.

 

Too hittable, too much nibbling, not enough swing and miss. Tough combo to be successful with.

Maybe a change in grip or in pitch mix or in attitude might help Gibson?  The line between good and bad is not huge in MLB -- sometimes a change in something can make the light turn on.

[Taildragger8791]

 

I believe the statement was closer to, "You Twins fans just don't know good pitching. Berrios *might* be a #2 -- if he ever stops sucking (which has a 5% chance of happening)." That's not a compliment and not at all an accurate reflection of Berrios. This is hyperbole, which you seem to be against judging by your signature.

 

I'll look at his results, thank you very much, and not be swayed by a terrible (and not unexpected) rookie campaign in the majors. Two things are obvious to me about Berrios: He has ace potential, and I knew all along he wasn't ready last year. Where he shows control in the minors, he can't hit the strike zone in the majors. He'll get over it.

 

The statement I was making is that Berrios has a big range right now of where he could end up. Few guys can really maximize their talents and hit their absolute ceiling because another gap in their game holds them back. My point was if he is one of those guys I could see him topping out as a #2 pitcher, but that's really hard to do and I like to set realistic expectations. So in my view his more realistic ceiling, the point at which I think everyone should be pretty satisfied, is if he settled in as a mid-rotation guy for a long time. That's very doable for him and would represent the best pitcher we've developed in quite a while around here. But first he has to get over whatever is holding him back from successfully making the jump from AAA to MLB. Lots of guys don't figure that step out and I wouldn't take it for granted that he will.

 

In other words, I was trying to describe his probability of success as more like a curve. 5% chance he's a #2, 40% chance he's a solid mid-rotation pitcher, 35% chance he's a back-end rotation guy, and 20% chance he busts within 4 years. Only a 20% chance to bust is pretty good and well below the rate we've experienced around Minnesota for the last decade. And of course these numbers are very arbitrary and loose, but I hope it helps better illustrate the point I was making.

[DaveW]

What else does Berrios need to do to get Gibson's spot?