Stuart Turner Return?

[GP830]

It looks like Stuart Turner won't be making the Reds roster-- doesn't this mean the Red's either have to offer trade compensation or he gets returned to the Twins? Wouldn't mind to have another decent catching chip in our ranks. 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/reds-stuart-turner-wont-serve-as-third-catcher/

[Otto von Ballpark]

Actually, first he would pass through waivers, so another team could select him. But he would retain Rule 5 restrictions so that is unlikely (but not impossible, the Twins did that with Erik Komatsu a few years ago).

 

A return to the Twins would be the most likely. Next most likely would be the two sides working out a trade (like the Twins did with Scott Diamond a few years ago too).

[Otto von Ballpark]

Although Turner has 10 hits in 23 AB this spring!  I guess if a team isn't set at backup, they might put in a claim on him.

[nicksaviking]

I'd think a trade is unlikely almost solely because the Twins catching options are so thin. Due to injuries or performance it's not out of the question that the Twins may need him fairly soon regardless if he's ready.

 

Also, he's familiar with the top young pitchers in the system who still have developing to do so that's a bonus to the Twins. I'd guess the Reds would have to really overpay to keep him.

[Mike Sixel]

Bringing back Turner allows you to remove Murphy from the 40 man, as Van pointed out on another thread. That opens up a spot for, ironically, Gimenez....

[Vanimal46]

I wouldn't mind swapping Turner for Murphy on the 40 man. I think the writing is on the wall that Murphy doesn't really have a future here. Especially if he can't beat out Gimenez for the backup C job. 

[Eris]

Do the Twins have to keep Turner on the 40 man roster if he is returned?

[twins_89]

The whole point of the rule 5 draft is that teams are unable or unwilling to put guys on the 40 man roster, so I am fairly certain that if Turner is returned he wouldn't take up a 40 man spot.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Do the Twins have to keep Turner on the 40 man roster if he is returned?

No.

[old nurse]

Meserano has been limited so the dl might be  a possibility and they retain Stuart for a couple of weeks

[Dr. Evil]

I would like him back.

[mikelink45]

I would like to see him and Garver get a chance to prove themselves.  The Twins seem to be quite set with their recent acquisitions. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I think it was a mistake to have lost him in the first place. Who did the Twins add to the 40 man roster instead of Turner?

[ThejacKmp]

Stuart Turner is not very good. I'd rather have JRM, poor track record and all.

[Guest]

After a lot of thought and consideration, and much review of statistics and commentary, my detailed analysis is:

 

 

Murphy Schmurphy.

[Vanimal46]

Stuart Turner is not very good. I'd rather have JRM, poor track record and all.

Does this do anything to change your view? JRM becomes arbitration eligible after this season, while Turner still has 3 years of pre-arbitration left. Also, JRM has to be on his last year of options. Turner has 3 for sure, and don't know the rules if he could get a 4th like Vargas.

 

It's highly unlikely JRM becomes that expensive.... But, IMO if Turner and JRM project a similar output, Turner would be my choice for the 3 cheap contract years.

[clutterheart]

Id bet the Reds ask the Twins to keep Turner for cash or maybe some rookie level prospect.

 

Since both Garver and Murphy will be at AAA this year, I think the twins would do that.  

 

[ThejacKmp]

 

Does this do anything to change your view? JRM becomes arbitration eligible after this season, while Turner still has 3 years of pre-arbitration left. Also, JRM has to be on his last year of options. Turner has 3 for sure, and don't know the rules if he could get a 4th like Vargas.

It's highly unlikely JRM becomes that expensive.... But, IMO if Turner and JRM project a similar output, Turner would be my choice for the 3 cheap contract years.

 

Turner would not have a 4th option year, it takes getting a cup of coffee at a very young age to have that happen.

 

JRM is not going to be expensive. Plus, even if he does get expensive, he's got a realistic chance to be a plus at the major league level. That's not something we can say about Stuart Turner. Turner has a high rep on TD but he has no realistic shot to be anything other than AAA filler unless he can hit. He has not hit at any level of the minors and he's no longer young for his level. He's been promoted too aggressively, taking time from Garver every step of the way. If you want an indictment of the TR era, failing to separate Turner and Garver should be near the top of the list.

 

JRM had a tough year last year but he has hit throughout the minors and at the major league level. His defense is not lauded like Turner's but I always worry about the defensive praise poor-hitting catchers inevitably get. JRM may not be an amazing MLB catcher but he's at least adequate and young enough to improve.

 

If the Twins lose JRM rostering Turner, it would be a terrible decision.

 

P.S. JRM's last year of options is why I think he should make the team over Gimenez. It's time to see if he can be a useful MLB catcher. Gimenez is not part of the next good Twins dynasty. Ugh. Let youth play, it'd be nice to see JRM in a specific role (starting against left handed starters) to see what he can do. Gimenez would likely take a spot in AAA because it's hard to see him having a better shot elsewhere.

[drjim]

With the state of catching in the bigs right now, I think you have to hoard as many players as possible at the position and let them sort it out in the minors. Not a huge difference if they are at AAA or AA for development. You never can predict which player it might click for, or how injuries might impact the depth chart.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Turner would not have a 4th option year, it takes getting a cup of coffee at a very young age to have that happen.

 

JRM is not going to be expensive. Plus, even if he does get expensive, he's got a realistic chance to be a plus at the major league level. That's not something we can say about Stuart Turner. Turner has a high rep on TD but he has no realistic shot to be anything other than AAA filler unless he can hit. He has not hit at any level of the minors and he's no longer young for his level. He's been promoted too aggressively, taking time from Garver every step of the way. If you want an indictment of the TR era, failing to separate Turner and Garver should be near the top of the list.

 

JRM had a tough year last year but he has hit throughout the minors and at the major league level. His defense is not lauded like Turner's but I always worry about the defensive praise poor-hitting catchers inevitably get. JRM may not be an amazing MLB catcher but he's at least adequate and young enough to improve.

 

If the Twins lose JRM rostering Turner, it would be a terrible decision.

 

P.S. JRM's last year of options is why I think he should make the team over Gimenez. It's time to see if he can be a useful MLB catcher. Gimenez is not part of the next good Twins dynasty. Ugh. Let youth play, it'd be nice to see JRM in a specific role (starting against left handed starters) to see what he can do. Gimenez would likely take a spot in AAA because it's hard to see him having a better shot elsewhere.

 

Quoted for truth. All of it.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Quoted for truth. All of it.

 

Yeah. At this point, the ceiling for Turner is average backup catcher. If he can up his power some, it'll make up for his deficient hit tool. He can catch a decent game and could have a 5-7 year career as a marginal backup. And his floor is AA veteran catcher who is 4th or 5th on an organization's depth chart (he was 4th for the Reds).

 

JRM has a higher ceiling and floor and seems more likely to get close to it. The ceiling is solid MLB starting catcher - not an all-star but one of the top 30 catchers. More likely, he seems like a guy who can catch on as a decent backup catcher somewhere (if he hits at all) and will certainly be a "third catcher in AAA for when someone in MLB gets injured" kind of guy.

 

Weird as it seems, the Twins have a ton of catching depth. There isn't really a great elite guy (Garver seems like above-average at best, maybe Rortvedt way down the road if he remembers how to hit?) but there's some nice depth between Castro and Gimenez/JRM/Garver.

[Vanimal46]

 

Weird as it seems, the Twins have a ton of catching depth. There isn't really a great elite guy (Garver seems like above-average at best, maybe Rortvedt way down the road if he remembers how to hit?) but there's some nice depth between Castro and Gimenez/JRM/Garver.

 

Agreed. Compared to last year it's looking much better throughout the whole organization. And compared to other MLB teams in the league, the Twins certainly aren't in the worst situation anymore. 

[DocBauer]

The Twins catching situation has changed tremendously since last season. I believe Castro was an excellent overall signing and will be a big improvement, especially if his off days can be managed mostly against LH pitching. Giminez is a solid, experienced RH option. And the fact that Garver may already be better than Giminez is not an indictment of Giminez or the decision to keep him, but rather, what is to come in the near future.

 

But I would take Turner back in a heartbeat unless the Reds offered up something quality in exchange. Murphy still hasn't shown much. The young talent at the position in the system is just that, young and in low milb. Turner provides value behind the plate and has flashes of some power as well as decent contact ability. There is still potential there and depth is a nice thing to have.

[Rosterman]

Yes, I would take Turner back. But right now, the Twins have Garver at AAA, which is where HE NEEDS to start. They also have Gimenez or Murphy. Plus, Dan Rohfling is on THAT roster. They have Eddy Rodriguez, who might have to go to AA ball. Turner could slide into AA ball, too. The question is DO THE TWINS WANT to keep Turner and give him AND Garver games behind the plate, with the thought that BOTH will be holding the fort come 2019 and beyond...unless Ben Rotrvelt really churns it up.

 

But the Twins really don't have depth at the high levels especially if something does happen to one of the two at the major leagues. And you can argue about Navarreto, Murray and Garcia and Silva being the next big thing. Turner, I feel, can be a good solid back-up catcher bench bat...maybe.

 

[Guest]

Last year in AA, Stuart Turner's offense graded as league average - for all players, not just catchers. He hit similarly in rookie ball in 2013 and A+ in 2014. His AA offense in 2015 was below league average, but still comparable to the average catcher. As far as it goes, Turner's 2016 AA hitting graded better than Murphy's 2016 AAA hitting, even after accounting for Murphy's higher level. Also, Drew Butera almost never hit as well as Turner has regularly hit, yet he's played key roles on several playoff teams and has a World Series ring. If Turner's defense approaches Butera's, which is supposedly the case, you'd definitely want him back.

[Mr. Brooks]

Last year in AA, Stuart Turner's offense graded as league average - for all players, not just catchers. He hit similarly in rookie ball in 2013 and A+ in 2014. His AA offense in 2015 was below league average, but still comparable to the average catcher. As far as it goes, Turner's 2016 AA hitting graded better than Murphy's 2016 AAA hitting, even after accounting for Murphy's higher level. Also, Drew Butera almost never hit as well as Turner has regularly hit, yet he's played key roles on several playoff teams and has a World Series ring. If Turner's defense approaches Butera's, which is supposedly the case, you'd definitely want him back.

The problem is that average minor leaguers don't make it to the big leagues. I'm not sure that citing his milb league average bat is a compliment.

[Guest]

The problem is that average minor leaguers don't make it to the big leagues. I'm not sure that citing his milb league average bat is a compliment.

Then how would you assess him? Nobody's looking for Turner to become Lucroy or Posey, but there are plenty of major league catchers with MiLB hitting profiles worse than or equal to Turner's, including, as I least one with a World Series ring. League average hitting in AA, as a catcher, is a decent predictor that he could hit enough in the majors to keep a job, if his defense is as good as its reputation.

[Thrylos]

 

Yeah. At this point, the ceiling for Turner is average backup catcher.

 

Drew Butera is Turner's ceiling.  Hope that helps.

[ashbury]

unless Ben Rotrvelt really churns it up.

Rortvedt. Spelled just the way it's pronounced.

[Seth Stohs]

It looks like Stuart Turner has made the Reds Opening Day roster and he'll stick with them at least until Devin Mesoraco is able to come back.