Dozier Trade Discussion Thread

[DaveW]

Well, if I recall correctly, you were cagey that the offer was De Leon and either of two highly rated prospects. Then you came back that it was either Bellinger or Alvarez.

and hours later I said bellinger was off the table and that it was alavarez (and has remained Alvarez for sometime now)

 

Bellinger was ruled out very quickly.

 

Hopefully this damn deal just gets done next week!

[Otto von Ballpark]

Dave, have you talked to your source recently? How would he/she explain not only the delay, but the Twins now making relatively lame leaks to Doogie Wolfson to drum up interest? None of this jibes with an aggressive Dodger offer being on the table since early December...

[DaveW]

Dave, have you talked to your source recently? How would he/she explain not only the delay, but the Twins now making relatively lame leaks to Doogie Wolfson to drum up interest? None of this jibes with an aggressive Dodger offer being on the table since early December...

My source may not be a Twins source btw... or it could be a Twins source that didn't talk to doogie.

 

The delay currently is due to the holidays, both front offices are more or less either "off" or working at like 50% until Tuesday. No rush to get it done now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I didn't assume your source was the Twins. The Dodgers must have an opinion on the Twins trying to drum up interest with other rumors though.

 

Why wouldn't the Twins leak the Alvarez part of the offer in these rumors, assuming it exists?

 

Is there a chance that the Twins trying to drum up a Cardinals rumor could backfire? If I'm the Dodgers, and I had De Leon and Alvarez on the table, I might pull Alvarez back after seeing the tepid interest the Twins have been able to drum up the past month....

[Otto von Ballpark]

Plus, I get the holiday delay.. but your source was convinced it was going to happen weeks ago. There's been a lot more delay than can be explained by the holidays, by the Turner/Jansen deals, etc.

 

And the Twins have been leaking stuff to Doogie over the holidays, so I'm not sure it has slowed front office business all that much.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

 

New idea.

I don't love it, would rather have prospects

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/212106536/8-potential-trades-during-mlb-hot-stove-season/?partnerId=as_mlb_20161224_68982816&adbid=812795758558613505&adbpl=tw&adbpr=18479513

 

I don't hate this... Gomber might be close enough to pitching in MLB. I'd like a fourth piece, though.

[AlwaysinModeration]

and hours later I said bellinger was off the table and that it was alavarez (and has remained Alvarez for sometime now)

 

Bellinger was ruled out very quickly.

 

Hopefully this damn deal just gets done next week!

Ah, that is right. You definitely narrowed to Alvarez before the 24 hours was up, considerably so.

 

Now, did your source give you more clarity, or did the source say it was De Leon and Alvarez from the start? Why did you float Bellinger early on?

[DaveW]

Ah, that is right. You definitely narrowed to Alvarez before the 24 hours was up, considerably so.

 

Now, did your source give you more clarity, or did the source say it was De Leon and Alvarez from the start? Why did you float Bellinger early on?

It came together quickly, source org heard two top prospects (DeLeon and one more) then shortly thereafter ruled out Bellinger and said Alvarez was it.

[Cory Engelhardt]

It came together quickly, source org heard two top prospects (DeLeon and one more) then shortly thereafter ruled out Bellinger and said Alvarez was it.

DaveW, every now and then on twitter specifically there are days when chatter picks up (usually around the same time that a national writer/pundit writes something about a Dozier trade) but now it has gone weeks.

My question is, does your source think there is a time where the Dodgers will pull the offer, and/or do you think something happens at some point?

[gSutter]

DaveW, every now and then on twitter specifically there are days when chatter picks up (usually around the same time that a national writer/pundit writes something about a Dozier trade) but now it has gone weeks.

My question is, does your source think there is a time where the Dodgers will pull the offer, and/or do you think something happens at some point?

I believe DaveW has said he isn't expecting the deal to get done until after the holidays, hoping for the 1st week in January

[HitInAPinch]

 

Yeah bellinger has never been on the table, I said this from day one. They don't want to trade away a guy who can be an impact player for them in 2017z

Alvarez they have included in the offer(s) he isn't a guy that would help them in 17/18 so they have been much more open to trading him.

So, your source is saying both De Leon and Alvarez.  I think some people here have already quoted Heyman (   http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-strange-market-encarnacion-dozen-sluggers-remain/   )   

 

that the Dodgers "are not willing to include top first base prospect Cody Bellinger or top young pitchers Walker Buehler or Yadier Alvarez along with De Leon."

 

Your sources are still firm on both De Leon and Alvarez?  I'd take that without much argument and run!

[beckmt]

I think the Twins were trying to get another club into the bidding for Dozier.  That does not seem to be happining, so Twins will have to make a decision to walk away or take the deal. 

Would like a better third piece, but to move forward, Twins may have to take the deal.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It came together quickly, source org heard two top prospects (DeLeon and one more) then shortly thereafter ruled out Bellinger and said Alvarez was it.

Sounds like the Alvarez inclusion may have been more inference than direct knowledge by your source...

[DaveW]

Sounds like the Alvarez inclusion may have been more inference than direct knowledge by your source...

Uh no, the source said it directly. And has confirmed it multiple times now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Uh no, the source said it directly. And has confirmed it multiple times now.

Not inference by you; inference by your source. If he/she heard "two top prospects" and eliminated Bellinger, that suggests they may not have first hand knowledge of Alvarez's inclusion, but rather inferred it themselves.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

So, your source is saying both De Leon and Alvarez.  I think some people here have already quoted Heyman (   http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-strange-market-encarnacion-dozen-sluggers-remain/   )   

 

that the Dodgers "are not willing to include top first base prospect Cody Bellinger or top young pitchers Walker Buehler or Yadier Alvarez along with De Leon."

 

Your sources are still firm on both De Leon and Alvarez?  I'd take that without much argument and run!

Heyman (or some anonymous reference) also calls the Dodgers "Stingy with their prospects" in regards to the trade. Looks like we're not the only ones itching to get this deal done!

[doscinco]

STL beat writer:

MarkASaxon

Seems #STLCards link to Brian Dozier was part of Minn's effort to extract max value from Dodgers, who feel their offer is already generous

43 mins ago - Twitter

[drjim]

 

STL beat writer:
MarkASaxon
Seems #STLCards link to Brian Dozier was part of Minn's effort to extract max value from Dodgers, who feel their offer is already generous
43 mins ago - Twitter

 

Well that's embarrassing.

[DaveW]

STL beat writer:

MarkASaxon

Seems #STLCards link to Brian Dozier was part of Minn's effort to extract max value from Dodgers, who feel their offer is already generous

43 mins ago - Twitter

Yup, very obvious.

[drjim]

We could have just re-hired Bill Smith to bungle negotiations this awesomely.

[Cory Engelhardt]

 

We could have just re-hired Bill Smith to bungle negotiations this awesomely.

 

Every team does this, it's nothing new. And we still don't know what has actually been talked about or discussed. It will be fun to see something come to fruition, hopefully.

[Badsmerf]

Even if it was a ploy, why wouldn't the cards go along with it? The red Sox and Yankees do that all the time to force teams too give up more. It will happen. I'm convinced, like Dave says, the haggling is over the third piece. Twins want high upside and Dodgers want to give them a replacement level player. I know many don't agree, but I'd take puig as the third piece, even if we need to throw someone in.

[Mike Sixel]

 

STL beat writer:
MarkASaxon
Seems #STLCards link to Brian Dozier was part of Minn's effort to extract max value from Dodgers, who feel their offer is already generous
43 mins ago - Twitter

 

As if anyone took Doogie seriously as an independent journalist.

[drjim]

 

Every team does this, it's nothing new. And we still don't know what has actually been talked about or discussed. It will be fun to see something come to fruition, hopefully.

 

I'm aware, but it is usually executed a little smoother with willing co-conspirators.

 

It probably doesn't matter all that much, but they are stuck now. Take the Dodgers offer or go home.

[mazeville]

 

STL beat writer:
MarkASaxon
Seems #STLCards link to Brian Dozier was part of Minn's effort to extract max value from Dodgers, who feel their offer is already generous
43 mins ago - Twitter

 

This was obvious the second Doogie tweeted it.

[gunnarthor]

There's nothing wrong with the Twins trying to get a better deal from the Dodgers or not taking a deal they don't like. I think I preferred the silence of the Ryan administration to the spin this one is creating but to each their own.

[Vanimal46]

 

There's nothing wrong with the Twins trying to get a better deal from the Dodgers or not taking a deal they don't like. I think I preferred the silence of the Ryan administration to the spin this one is creating but to each their own.

Not sure which way I like better. It's certainly different now that the negotiations are more transparent than the Ryan administration. 

[TheLeviathan]

I think they could have chosen a little bit more wisely in how they spun this is all.  But I'm not sure it mattered.  Until there is a real second suitor for him, neither team stands to gain or lose much from where they started.

[Vanimal46]

If the Cardinals went with this false report, the negotiation power may have switched to the Twins. Now that they have completely denied it, it feels like all the power is in the Dodgers' hand. 

And whatever held up the negotiations before, if I were the Dodgers knowing they're the only ones in on Dozier, I'd say "You know that 3rd or 4th piece we've been talking about? Never mind about that. You can have De Leon / 2nd piece. Take it or leave it."  

[Otto von Ballpark]

Every team does this, it's nothing new.

I think fans tend to exaggerate the extent to which teams do this. Sure, teams try to gain a negotiating edge, but if we fans can tell what is going on, how much of an edge are they really gaining with these ploys? It's not like the Dodgers are going to read Doogie's unspecific report of St Louis interest and suddenly add a significant piece to their offer. In fact, it could backfire more often than not -- it may have been better for the Twins to keep St Louis as merely a potential future partner, rather than one who has already had fruitless dialogue with the Twins.