Nick Nelson Site Manager Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Less than three weeks after being formally introduced in a press conference at Target Field, Derek Falvey and Thad Levine made their first major acquisition as heads of the Minnesota Twins baseball department. The Jason Castro signing was a bold stroke from the new front office, and one that sends some very positive signals regarding what we can expect from this new era of leadership.It has been evident that Castro was the team's top priority from the get-go. While serving as interim GM late in the summer, Rob Antony pointed to finding a starting catcher as Minnesota's primary offseason imperative, and as soon as free agency got underway the Twins were repeatedly tied to the former Astro by multiple sources. But wanting a free agent and being able to sign him are two different things, as we've seen many times over the years. During Terry Ryan's tenure, the Twins were frequently unable to lure coveted targets, too often beaten to the punch by more aggressive (and less risk-averse) suitors. Castro had no shortage of demand – his name was generating significant buzz and he had at least one other three-year offer on the table – but the Twins managed to strike quickly and lock him up by Thanksgiving, even with the disadvantage of posting baseball's worst record in 2016. That meant going above and beyond in terms of salary. While we don't know the specifics of what different clubs were proposing, it seems safe to say that the Twins offered the most money at $24.5 million, which surpassed Josh Willingham's contract to become Minnesota's largest commitment for a free agent position player in the last 25 years. On the surface, that's a tough number to justify for someone who has batted .210 as a part-time catcher over the past two seasons, especially when your team is amidst a rebuild. In fact, it's an expense that can only really be justified on the basis of advanced metrics and contemporary thinking. Castro derives much of his value from superior pitch-framing capabilities, and his left-handed bat provides a platoon advantage when paired with John Ryan Murphy or Mitch Garver. It is promising not only that Falvey and Levine appear to be heavily weighing such factors, but also that they were able to sell ownership on these merits. It's no easy task to come in and push for giving a historically large contract (in relative terms) to someone with Castro's track record. It's a great first step for Falvey and Levine, and the organization as a whole. But of course, their biggest test still lies ahead. Click here to view the article glunn 1
FargoFanMan Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Strong start? Only compared to the previous regime perhaps. This is what a front office in 2016 does. Am I happy about the move? Absolutely! Let's just see what happens in the coming weeks. Hopefully a dozier trade for pitching prospects and a few tricks from their sleeves maybe. That would be a strong start. Let's see what you boys got! Vanimal46, Thrylos and Doomtints 3
Thrylos Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 "Strong" might not be the word to describe a front office that has Buddy Boshers & Co on the 40-man roster, but, yes, that single signing might be a good start (that might have been negated by the recent FO signings of players of the just not good enough years... We shall see. But "strong"? Nah. Go get Chris Sale and we can talk about "strong".... Doomtints 1
theBOMisthebomb Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Only time will tell. So far I have liked the Castro signing and not been in favor of the three new special assistant hirings.
TheLeviathan Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 They signed the best player available at a giant area of need. That's the definition of "strong start" ThejacKmp, Platoon, nytwinsfan and 7 others 10
Cap'n Piranha Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I'm with Leviathan. They aggressively outbid other teams for a player who struggles with traditional stats, but looks good when viewed as a platoon hitter/advanced metric defender. If you can find one instance of TR & Co. doing that, I'll eat my shoe. wavedog, Nick Nelson, ThejacKmp and 2 others 5
Kwak Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I thought the "start" begin with waiving Plouffe and deciding to tender the other arb-eligible players-then continued with the "pruning" from and "adding to" the 40-man roster. Signing Castro came later. ThejacKmp and nytwinsfan 2
operation mindcrime Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 We really spend the money when it comes to free agent position players! \m/ jimmer 1
h2oface Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Bold. Signing a declining catcher whose hitting is plummeting for $24 million is certainly bold and hopeful. Dave The Dastardly and jimmer 2
Platoon Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I liked the Castro signing and some of the 40 man pruning, I don't really care if they overpaid for him, something had to be done behind the plate, my only concern with his offense would be Molitors seeming lack of interest in platooning. That would nullify the theory of Ryan picking up the RH at bats. And leaving Plouffe walk started the process of clarifying the direction of the roster, a process which is going to take well into next year to accomplish in full.
DaveW Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Strong start? I'd pump the breaks quite a bit for a catcher who is declining by the year and who's greatest asset is "pitch framing" which adds about one strike per game. Castro maybe adds one win a year, only 30 more to go! Thrylos, Doomtints and Dave The Dastardly 3
DaveW Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I'm with Leviathan. They aggressively outbid other teams for a player who struggles with traditional stats, but looks good when viewed as a platoon hitter/advanced metric defender. If you can find one instance of TR & Co. doing that, I'll eat my shoe.I keep hearing talk of platoon, but the thing with a platoon is you need a second good player to pair with him. I don't see it currently.
mazeville Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I'd generally agree they're off to a strong start between the signing of Castro and the insistence that they're going to increase the size of the front office. The real test will come when they make trades, and what they get in return. That's been a major deficiency in recent years and it would be nice to win a trade or two. markos 1
laloesch Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) Strong start? I'd pump the breaks quite a bit for a catcher who is declining by the year and who's greatest asset is "pitch framing" which adds about one strike per game.Castro maybe adds one win a year, only 30 more to go! I'm not impressed with this signing. I see it as a stop gap measure. There's a reason the Astros didn't spend the money to resign him. Will his defense be better than Suzuki? Probably. However, from what I've been reading about him he does allow quite a few "pb" and has a relatively weak throwing arm. While pitch framing is important I think it's been over hyped here as the "be all end all stat." It's also a lot less relevant right now in Minnesota considering much of the pitching staff has major control issues. I just don't think the "pitch framing" makes up for his hideous offensive stats (most notably his BA) the past three years. The guy can't hit left handed pitching at all. In 2016 he batted .150 against lefties and .231 against righties. Not exactly anything to get excited about. I think the Twins can do better long term. Edited November 30, 2016 by laloesch Dave The Dastardly, Doomtints and jimmer 3
ThejacKmp Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 "Strong" might not be the word to describe a front office that has Buddy Boshers & Co on the 40-man roster, but, yes, that single signing might be a good start (that might have been negated by the recent FO signings of players of the just not good enough years... We shall see. But "strong"? Nah. Go get Chris Sale and we can talk about "strong".... 1.) No way the White Sox are going to trade Sale in division. Just not happening. 2.) Getting Chris Sale is not "strong". Depends what you give up. I think the price is going to be too much for me. Chris Sale doesn't make this a good team - developing young controllable pitching (perhaps obtained by trading Dozier) will. goulik 1
ThejacKmp Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I'm not impressed with this signing. I see it as a stop gap measure. There's a reason the Astros didn't spend the money to resign him. Will his defense be better than Suzuki? Probably. However, from what I've been reading about him he does allow quite a few "pb" and has a relatively weak throwing arm. While pitch framing is important I think it's been over hyped here as the "be all end all stat." It's also a lot less relevant right now in Minnesota considering much of the pitching staff has major control issues. I just don't think the "pitch framing" makes up for his hideous offensive stats (most notably his BA) the past three years. The guy can't hit left handed pitching at all. In 2016 he batted .150 against lefties and .231 against righties. Not exactly anything to get excited about. I think the Twins can do better long term. I agree that anyone saying, "This is the most amazing signing ever!" has fallen a bit too hard for baseball's latest craze, pitch framing. (It's important but we're probably overstating its value due to its newness - recency bias!) But to say that this isn't a strong signing is pretty shortsighted. The Twins were going to look to bring someone in behind the plate because their current options did not provide a reasonable expectation of competency. Looking at the free agent market, they had three options: (1) Go the Wieters (and maybe Ramos?) route and spend large amounts and commit to 5 years on a premier guy heading into his 30s.(2) Go the cheapskate route and sign the next Kurt Suzuki placeholder for a 1 or 2 year deal.(3) Find something in the middle that doesn't commit you at C but provides a reasonable option. The strong possibility of Wieters not finishing the contract behind the plate makes #1 unpalatable as it would interfere with Twins prospects who are already creating a logjam at 1B/DH. We've all seen #2 and while it doesn't cripple the team, it also doesn't help it - the old band-aid on a bullet wound analogy. #3 is clearly the best option. Castro is very much #3. $8 million seems like a lot but it's not that crazy in today's baseball and it's money the Twins can afford to spend. Castro bats LH and thus provides a nice platoon partner for both Garver and JRM. He put up a very respectable .757 OPS against right handers and provides some nice pop from behind the plate. It's a strong signing. Not a home run signing but that option likely didn't exist this offseason (or almost any offseason when it comes to catching). The Twins found someone who can stabilize catcher in 2017 and help their young pitching. The fact that he also provides a nice platoon backup at a reasonable cost should JRM or Garver take a step forward this year is icing on the cake. jimmer, wavedog and LA Vikes Fan 3
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I don't know how anyone can be disappointed in moving on from Plouffe, and signing an actual defensive catcher......two good moves on the field, imo. AWOLNATION_11, USAFChief, TheLeviathan and 1 other 4
ThejacKmp Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I keep hearing talk of platoon, but the thing with a platoon is you need a second good player to pair with him. I don't see it currently. JRM had a disastrous year last year but even with that he has put up a .691 OPS against left-handed pitching for his career. The average OPS for a catcher in 2016 was .704 (.682 in the AL) so even with a terrible year skewing his OPS down, JRM is pretty close to an average hitter against lefties - and there's reason to hope last year was a nadir. More promisingly, Garver had a .802 OPS against lefties in AA and AA last year and .733 OPS against lefties in A+ and Fall League in 2015. Those numbers may not extrapolate to the pros but he seems a good bet to be at least average against lefties. Obviously neither of these guys is proven but they both have the potential to be solid platoon-mates with Castro. It's also important to realize that platoon doesn't mean a 50-50 split. 70% of at bats will come against righties, who Castro had a .757 OPS against last year. We're talking about some uncertainty (but promise) on the smaller side of the platoon. I think the Twins are in a good position for catcher for next year. They found a nice solution for only $8 million. d-mac, LA Vikes Fan and BK432 3
ThejacKmp Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 My only concern with his offense would be Molitors seeming lack of interest in platooning. There's a new boss in town and he likes platooning, Molitor is going to have to adjust. If I get a new boss at work and he really likes something done a certain way, that's the way it gets done. Nick Nelson 1
DaveW Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I don't know how anyone can be disappointed in moving on from Plouffe, and signing an actual defensive catcher......two good moves on the field, imo.Moving on from plouffe was a complete no brainer, I mean I'm glad it happened by I'm not going to claim that was a shrewd move by the FO. They should have traded Plouffe prior to last season, but water under the bridge Castro is a defensive catcher, yes, but 3 years is to long for a guy who is not even a 2 WAR player. 1-2 years would have been better.
DaveW Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 There's a new boss in town and he likes platooning, Molitor is going to have to adjust. If I get a new boss at work and he really likes something done a certain way, that's the way it gets done.I'd argue the new boss doesn't have as much power as he would like over Molitor. Imo it's absurd ownership forced them to keep molitor around after the worst season in franchise history. rghrbek, Dave The Dastardly, d-mac and 2 others 5
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Moving on from plouffe was a complete no brainer, I mean I'm glad it happened by I'm not going to claim that was a shrewd move by the FO.They should have traded Plouffe prior to last season, but water under the bridge Castro is a defensive catcher, yes, but 3 years is to long for a guy who is not even a 2 WAR player.1-2 years would have been better. They weren't getting him, or any good, catcher for 1 year. This is the price of FAs.....It would also be great to get Kershaw for Dozier, but that's not realistic either (and yes, that was smart alecky....this site is too serious lately). TheLeviathan and d-mac 2
DaveW Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) JRM had a disastrous year last year but even with that he has put up a .691 OPS against left-handed pitching for his career. The average OPS for a catcher in 2016 was .704 (.682 in the AL) so even with a terrible year skewing his OPS down, JRM is pretty close to an average hitter against lefties - and there's reason to hope last year was a nadir. More promisingly, Garver had a .802 OPS against lefties in AA and AA last year and .733 OPS against lefties in A+ and Fall League in 2015. Those numbers may not extrapolate to the pros but he seems a good bet to be at least average against lefties. Obviously neither of these guys is proven but they both have the potential to be solid platoon-mates with Castro. It's also important to realize that platoon doesn't mean a 50-50 split. 70% of at bats will come against righties, who Castro had a .757 OPS against last year. We're talking about some uncertainty (but promise) on the smaller side of the platoon. I think the Twins are in a good position for catcher for next year. They found a nice solution for only $8 million.I'm definitely intrigued by Garver, good points. Edited November 30, 2016 by DaveW Mike Sixel and ThejacKmp 2
DaveW Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 They weren't getting him, or any good, catcher for 1 year. This is the price of FAs.....It would also be great to get Kershaw for Dozier, but that's not realistic either (and yes, that was smart alecky....this site is too serious lately).I'd argue that Castro isn't objectively "good" He's probably a 1.0-1.4 WAR player.
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 1 WAR costs $8 MM a year.....that's what they paid. (and that WAR does not currently take into account any framing advantage he brings over Suzuki). But, I agree, there are reasons to be concerned about Castro. I'd rather they roll the die and try to be good, than to sit back and do nothing though. d-mac 1
jimmer Verified Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Strong start? Only compared to the previous regime perhaps. exactly. And hardly bold either. You know the Twins organization has set the bar embarrassingly low when Jason Castro signals a strong, bold start. Doomtints, FargoFanMan, h2oface and 1 other 4
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 exactly. And hardly bold either. You know the Twins organization has set the bar embarrassingly low when Jason Castro signals a strong, bold start. dude, nothing else has happened this offseason, hardly, and there aren't any FAs out there. What, exactly, do people expect at this point? They cut Plouffe, and they signed the top player at a position of need...... TheLeviathan, USAFChief and d-mac 3
ThejacKmp Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I'd argue the new boss doesn't have as much power as he would like over Molitor.Imo it's absurd ownership forced them to keep molitor around after the worst season in franchise history. Absurd is a huge overreaction. It's not unusual for a new GM to keep the prior manager for the first year. It keeps there from being a huge upheaval, provides him with someone who already knows the lay of the locker room and gives him a chance to evaluate the prior manager on the job. If things don't work out after the first year, the GM can then hire the guy he wants at a time where he doesn't have the distraction of trying to absorb all the information about the organization. I think it was a very strong move to keep Molitor around for next year and I imagine Falvey/Levine didn't give it a second thought. I also don't agree that Paul Molitor is going to be hard for the GM to control. He knows that without the GM's support, any bad start next year could cost him his job. And it's not like Paul Molitor is a veteran manager who has earned the right to do things his way - he's been on the job two years and should be pretty amenable to trying things a new way. He was amenable to shifts, has used some platoons in the past and is certainly not an old school Gardenhire acolyte. No reason to freak out about the manager this offseason. Next year maybe. kenbuddha 1
ThejacKmp Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 They cut Plouffe, and they signed the top player at a position of need...... I mean Wieters is the top player at catcher. And Ramos is likely second depending on where you sit as far as waiting for a C to be healthy. But Castro was the top of the second tier of catchers, which is where the Twins should be shopping.
markos Provisional Member Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I mean Wieters is the top player at catcher. And Ramos is likely second depending on where you sit as far as waiting for a C to be healthy. But Castro was the top of the second tier of catchers, which is where the Twins should be shopping.I think lots of people would argue that Castro is better than Wieters. I've heard a lot of reports that he hasn't been the same after TJ surgery, both at the plate and behind it.
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