Can the Twins Afford to Release Mauer?

[laloesch]

 

How is he complaining?  He was asked how he feels and he was honest.  He said, he feels awful and is ready for this season to end so he can get some rest and recover.

He's complaining.  

[GCTF]

 

Vargas is the flavor of the month for heaven's sake. I'm sure we can get a coupon for a Happy Meal and fry if we trade him after ST just like we did with Arcia.

So what's Fire Marshal Bill Grand Marshal Terry up to these days?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

While Mauer's skills may have diminished, he still leads the team in OBP, OBP w/ runners in scoring position, tied for 2nd BA w/ runners in scoring position, 3rd OPS w/ runners in scoring position,most walks on team, highest BA, triples and stolen bases among 1st base candidates (Sano, Plouffe, Vargas, Park) on team, and plays defense well.

 

You're premise that Mauer is hurting the team is false. He performs better than the alternatives.

Joe has a .363 obp, .128 ISO, and accumulated 1.0 WAR, -9.3 dWAR in 576 plate appearances.

 

Vargas has .355 obp, .260 iso, and accumulated .7 WAR, -3.1dWAR in 155 plate appearances.

 

So nope, Mauer hasn't out performed the alternatives. Getting back to old discussions, I don't know how the Twins hold on to Vargas w/Joe on the roster, but it's clear they need to try. Vargas has been the better option and is going through Arb for the first time.

[jimmer]

This would solve some roster construction problems, and make the PBO opportunity more intriguing. Freeing up $24 million a year immediately is a big deal.

maybe the twins can sign 3 mediocre starting pitchers with the freed up 23M a year when he is gone. Or just keep payroll lower

[jimmer]

Mauer and Vargas are both plus fielders at first base, so there's that.

 

For as big and heavy as Vargas is, he doesn't seem to get hurt in the act of making a routine baseball play, like 90% of the other guys on this team do.

how is Vargas considered a plus defender??

[h2oface]

Nothing makes Grossman look any better than he is.

 

The video of his double error that was connected to the MLB box on September 23 has been swapped out for the Seattle feed and doesn't show the second kicking the ball error.

[Platoon]

Sano at 3rd, makes Grossman look like a gold glover.

Or you could say, Robbie in left makes Sano look like a competent RF?

[rghrbek]

 

I'd hang on to Mauer for 1 more season. He should not be a lock for a starting role anymore. There's still value in 250-300 Mauer at bats in a season. He could be useful in a platoon/bench role.

 

I like this idea as well, except, I just can't see Joe (or the twins), letting that happen.   People and organizations have egos.   Hopefully the new guy (Falvey) doesn't buy into any of that, and simply does what's best for the team.   Which, if Mauer wants to come back, you take him, at a smaller role, and let injuries and other circumstances dictate his playing time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Joe has a .363 obp, .128 ISO, and accumulated 1.0 WAR, -9.3 dWAR in 576 plate appearances.

Vargas has .355 obp, .260 iso, and accumulated .7 WAR, -3.1dWAR in 155 plate appearances.

So nope, Mauer hasn't out performed the alternatives.

FWIW, Mauer does much better at B-Ref (2.2 WAR) than Fangraphs.  Vargas still beats him prorating his WAR to the same number of PA, but not by much (2.6 to 2.2), and that's a pretty big gulf to cover by prorating...

[Vanimal46]

I like this idea as well, except, I just can't see Joe (or the twins), letting that happen. People and organizations have egos. Hopefully the new guy (Falvey) doesn't buy into any of that, and simply does what's best for the team. Which, if Mauer wants to come back, you take him, at a smaller role, and let injuries and other circumstances dictate his playing time.

I can't see Mauer with an ego. I'm sure he'd like to play as much as he can. Like you said, it's up to Falvey and the manager setting the expectation they'd like to keep him fresh in a decreased role.

[deanlambrecht]

 

Well, maybe so.

 

http://www.startribune.com/how-s-joe-mauer-s-health-as-twins-season-winds-down-i-feel-terrible/394704281/

 

Not sure how you reach that conclusion when the article you cite quotes Mauer as follows:   “I’m going to try to clean up the nicks that you acquire over the year and get right for next year.”   (Bold emphasis added.)

[dxpavelka]

 

I don't think any of those three statements are true.

I think they are.

[Kwak]

If there is a buyout (huge IF) there won't be an extra $23MM for players. That money will be treated as if Mauer was being paid as a player--very similar to Park's posting fee was expensed.

 

It's true Joe isn't worth his salary, but there is a huge risk by "retiring" him. Some have posted Vargas's numbers. I say wait until the league starts to pitch him just like Arcia was pitched. Their swings are similar. I expect that next year Vargas will resemble a taller version of Arcia at bat, though hopefully Vargas will field better than Arcia. If Joe is replaced by another strikeout King, I fear a huge backlash at those responsible. And then there's the possibility that Joe plays elsewhere...(with a boxcar full of buyout cash). 

[Mike Sixel]

If leadership fails to act*, because they fear a fan backlash, that's bad.....

 

*on anything, not just this.

[ken]

It's going to be interesting to see how the new baseball people handle Mauer. No built in loyalty and under the mission to rebuild the team. Do they really want him getting 400+ at bats?

[Linus]

When he is healthy he is still a good hitter from an obp standpoint and his defense is now very good. The problem is he's not healthy much of the time. I would keep him at first but sit him more and sit him altogether when not healthy. I would not dh him much as Vargas should get that chance. Park can wait in rochester.

[Doomtints]

 

The leg injury that has been bothering "most of the year?"

 

Huh?

 

You apparently missed the memo.  He has been complaining about his lower leg before his great August.  Since before the all star break, to be exact.  

[TheLeviathan]

I think we should just assume from now on that full health and Mauer are never going to go together again.  And we should stop inflating our expectations on that misguided sentiment.

[Steve Lein]

Mauer still has a place on the team, but it's in a role that is swapped with how they've used Vargas or any other 1B/DH this year. 

[laloesch]

 

It's going to be interesting to see how the new baseball people handle Mauer. No built in loyalty and under the mission to rebuild the team. Do they really want him getting 400+ at bats?

 

 

It doesn't have to be as radical as people post here.  Make Joe more of a part time player and ride out the last two years if Joe wishes to continue after this season while giving Vargas a majority of the playing time at 1st base moving forward.  Joe can still DH some games over the next two years and will get a decent amount of at-bats and playing time.  

 

This doesn't have to be an either or scenario IMO.  If Vargas can't hack a full time gig at first you can try Kepler there (i believe he has limited experience at first) or Park.

 

 

[laloesch]

 

I think we should just assume from now on that full health and Mauer are never going to go together again.  And we should stop inflating our expectations on that misguided sentiment.

 

Agreed.  He's had health issues every season the last 4 or 5 years.  Time to hang it up IMO, but that's up to joe.  It doesn't matter though, the apologists and homers will always argue with you if say anything that could cast a negative light on Joe and his supreme legacy as a Twin.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Agreed.  He's had health issues every season the last 4 or 5 years.  Time to hang it up IMO, but that's up to joe.  It doesn't matter though, the apologists and homers will always argue with you if say anything that could cast a negative light on Joe and his supreme legacy as a Twin.

 

I wasn't suggesting he retire.  But when that inevitable spring training story about him "feeling great!" comes back....can we all just collectively ignore it this time?  He's always going to be banged up and his production isn't going back to waht we want it to be.  

 

Acceptance of what he is at this point, that's all I ask.

[Steve Lein]

 

This doesn't have to be an either or scenario IMO.  If Vargas can't hack a full time gig at first you can try Kepler there (i believe he has limited experience at first) or Park.

 

Defensively, Kepler is probably a better First Baseman than he is an Outfielder. It's what he played before he ever came to the Twins organization, and has played it still coming up through the system.

 

That doesn't mean his defense is worth more at 1B than in the OF, just that he's very capable there.

[Linus]

Agreed. He's had health issues every season the last 4 or 5 years. Time to hang it up IMO, but that's up to joe. It doesn't matter though, the apologists and homers will always argue with you if say anything that could cast a negative light on Joe and his supreme legacy as a Twin.

Funny I don't see anyone here protecting Joe's supreme legacy.

[h2oface]

Sure they can afford to. Best shut him down for the year now. One more game and his average stands to drop into the .250s.

[Craig Arko]

 

Not sure how you reach that conclusion when the article you cite quotes Mauer as follows:   “I’m going to try to clean up the nicks that you acquire over the year and get right for next year.”   (Bold emphasis added.)

"Maybe so" is a conjecture and not a conclusion. But hey, English.

[jud6312]

 

Nothing makes Grossman look any better than he is.

The video of his double error that was connected to the MLB box on September 23 has been swapped out for the Seattle feed and doesn't show the second kicking the ball error.

I witnessed that garbage live. It was such a Bad News Bears I couldn't even be mad. The people in the stands around me were though. I've never heard a home player get booed like that before. It was actually quite impressive.

[jud6312]

 

I wasn't suggesting he retire.  But when that inevitable spring training story about him "feeling great!" comes back....can we all just collectively ignore it this time?  He's always going to be banged up and his production isn't going back to waht we want it to be.  

 

Acceptance of what he is at this point, that's all I ask.

I'm sure LaVelle has already got half of that story penned and he's just waiting for Joe to fill in the details.

 

If he starts on it early enough, he can focus on his big "Where to Eat in Ft. Myers" stories and comb over MLB.com's Twins Top-30 prospects list to compose his prospects to watch article.

[Kwak]

 

Defensively, Kepler is probably a better First Baseman than he is an Outfielder. It's what he played before he ever came to the Twins organization, and has played it still coming up through the system.

 

That doesn't mean his defense is worth more at 1B than in the OF, just that he's very capable there.

Kepler's gaffe in RF is a priceless GIF. My favorite moment is when Kepler points the ball out to Rosario so he can "go fetch".

[laloesch]

 

I'd keep Mauer around, but he would have to earn a starting job next Spring.  I like his bat more than that of Danny Santana, Grossman, etc as a bench bat. Can definitely see a Vargas/Park/Mauer rotation at 1B/DH next season (with Plouffe non-tendered, of course.)  

 

re: Walker:  Seriously?  The guy swats at minor league breaking stuff like they are flies.  Why would anyone think that he can hit anything but mistakes in the majors at this point?  If he gets promoted, he would be more embarrassing than Buxton was last season and the beginning of this one...

 

 

I don't understand the hate for Walker.  Sure he strikes out a ton, but to say that "he'd be more embarrassing than Buxton,"  I mean come-on, tell me another one.  The guy absolutely clubs the ball and is a completely different ball player than Buxton.  Silly comparison.