Berardino: Twins place Milone and Fien on waviers

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If Mastro is only coming up for a three day lay over and in case someone gets hurt, why not go with the outfielder already on the 40 man (ABW II).  He is a better pinch hit option than Mastro.  Nobody cares if he sits for 3 or 5 days anyway.  He definitely provides more late inning punch.

 

He's been hitting well in Rochester of late too.  I wouldn't be surprised if he got a call.

[Kwak]

How long is the leash for the "pitching prospects" in the rotation compare to the position players--Buxton, Murphy, Kepler, the OFers, etc.?  Because if these guys "aren't ready" (as claimed for most of the position players)  what next?

[Mike Sixel]

You should promote people before they are ready, if your team is bad. If you wait until they are ready, you have lost some of their production.

 

This team is terrible. Every young player possible should be up and playing, unless they have already shown not to be ready. Polanco should play for 20 games or so. Pick a position, and play him. They need to see what they have.

 

This season is what you get when you can't decide what route to take, imo.

[alarp33]

From the LEN3

 

“We’re not playing too well,” Ryan said. “Consequently, we are going to have to start making some difficult decisions for our players, whether it is their near future or distant. It is not going good enough for us to wait. We are going to have to make some decisions.”

 

In a uncharacteristic move, TR is making moves before the All Star break.  This team was NEVER a playoff contender.  Not last year, not this year.  Time for a change, and TR has already started.

 

1.  The most important:  sending Buxton down.  Not even close to being a MLB hitter

2.  Bringing up guys like Tonkin, Pressly and O'Rourke to if they've got the stuff.

3.  Making room for Sano AND Arcia on the same roster.

4.  Letting loose of Milone and Fien to clear non-producers spots

 

Who I think needs the most work?  Sano and Arcia.  Issue:  Professionalism.

 

Sano:  It is what it is.  Twins needed to put him in the lineup someplace and RF isn't the greatest of ideas.  But from what I saw, his play at 3rd isn't all that great, either.  I still have visions of that belly flop a couple weeks ago.  But that not my biggest concern.  This is:

 

http://www.twincities.com/2016/05/04/twins-miguel-sano-umpires-are-crazy-this-year/

 

Criticizing umpiring publicly is an extraordinary bad thing to do.  I'm hoping Molitor had a chat with him.

 

Arcia:  kudo's for coming to camp in great shape.  What took you so long to figure it out?  My bigger concern is his grandstanding at the plate.  On balls he puts in play, he stands at the plate, admiring what he did.  I'm hoping Bruno had a chat with him.

 

What I'm getting at here is this:  Beyond Sano and Arcia, there are other players that seem to act like they are entitled to being in the MLB.  Rosario, as much as I liked what I saw last year, is one of them.  Send his butt down.  And, this ain't all on TR.

 

WHEW, this got a lot longer than I anticipated.  Sorry, had to vent a bit   :shoot:

That damn lack of professionalism from Arcia is KILLING this team right now. What good is a 2 run homer down 4??!?!

[RIP BYTO]

I hope this is a sign of things to come.  If we are going to lose, might as well lose with guys that are part of the future here.  Neither of these stiffs qualify as part the future of this team.

[DocBauer]

Sorry, I generally likeep LEN3, and he's right about these moves being uncharacteristic. As long as the moves are not window dressing, they are needed. (Should have been during the offseason along with others but we've hit that topic adnauseum) But I think he's flat out wrong to target Arcia. And arguing with an umpire and getting tossed is not the way to go about your business. (But as bad as some of the umpiring has been at times this season, I'm surprised the whole team, coaches, broadcasters and fans haven't been tossed)

 

And Sano can't play 3B? Has he even been watching Sano play in the infield? Nobody expects a Gold Glove from him there. But he's still young and developing defensively. He's been OK there last year and this year. Probably even better this season when you realize he's been forced to the OF, "for the whole season", before moving back. Was Gaetti a great 3B initially? Koskie? Plouffe? The rhetoric of Sano at 3B is getting annoying.

[King]

Fien was claimed off waivers by the Dodgers.

 

Viable reliever thrown out the window after 13 innings of poor ERA luck. Very poor roster move.

[USAFChief]

Fien was claimed off waivers by the Dodgers.

 

Viable reliever thrown out the window after 13 innings of poor ERA luck. Very poor roster move.

I'm ok with waiving Fein.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Does this change the prevailing evaluation of the Fuld trade? I mean, literally no team in the league was willing to give Milone a roster spot for ~$4 mil, even just temporarily in an effort to sneak him through waivers themselves later. Have we been overrating his value this whole time? Not saying it was a bad trade for the Twins or any such thing, but maybe it wasn't the fleecing that many have suggested, and maybe it shouldn't go into TR's record as any great accomplishment...

[nicksaviking]

Good for Casey, it was the right move by the Twins a little too late, but Fien was a nice find and a good Twin for over three years, good luck to him.

[Riverbrian]

 

I'm ok with waiving Fein.

 

Waved to add Mastro... Are you still Ok?

[Riverbrian]

 

Does this change the prevailing evaluation of the Fuld trade? I mean, literally no team in the league was willing to give Milone a roster spot for ~$4 mil, even just temporarily in an effort to sneak him through waivers themselves later. Have we been overrating his value this whole time? Not saying it was a bad trade for the Twins or any such thing, but maybe it wasn't the fleecing that many have suggested, and maybe it shouldn't go into TR's record as any great accomplishment...

 

128 Innings with an ERA under 4.00 during a year that the Twins were in contention. That alone makes him a solid return for Sam Fuld. 

 

 

 

 

[USAFChief]

Waved to add Mastro... Are you still Ok?

I'll be ok when they waive Mastro, too.

 

I don't actually view those two moves as directly connected, except as examples of Twins management's preference for familiarity or availability over all else.

 

That playing the likes of Darrin Mastroianni is a reason you lose 390 games over four years isn't as important as "I like him, and he'll say yes on the first phone call. "

 

Doing more than that takes effort and/or money. Edit again: substitute "imagination" for "effort."

 

Edit to add: and this is in no way an attack on Mastro...I'd do the same thing as him. He's squeezing out a living playing baseball. Good for him. This is a critique of management.

[ashbury]

Boshers?

I didn't see the reason to sign him in the first place, and he couldn't keep Pawtucket from scoring the tying run in the bottom of the ninth the other night, so I'd be fine with losing him on waivers. I don't see a reason to have some guy named Buddy anywhere in the system, frankly, unless Buddy Bell is interested in mounting a comeback.

[markos]

 

Does this change the prevailing evaluation of the Fuld trade? I mean, literally no team in the league was willing to give Milone a roster spot for ~$4 mil, even just temporarily in an effort to sneak him through waivers themselves later. Have we been overrating his value this whole time? Not saying it was a bad trade for the Twins or any such thing, but maybe it wasn't the fleecing that many have suggested, and maybe it shouldn't go into TR's record as any great accomplishment...

I have a few thoughts about this:

 

1) As Riverbrian already mentioned, Milone pitched pretty well last year. At the same time, Fuld was pretty lousy last year and is on the DL this year. 

2) Results aside, I have argued that the Twins have needed a Fuld-esque player on the roster - a 4th OF who is above average defensively at CF, who is old enough that there is no worries if he ends up sitting on the bench for days at a time, but who is good enough that it isn't the end of the world if he needs to play for a few days or a couple weeks. In the ideal, Sam Fuld is a better version of Shane Robinson and Jordan Schafer. So at a certain level, the team may have been better off keeping Fuld and replacing Milone with one of the internal options (Duffey, Berrios, May). (As an aside, I think that is the role that Rosario ultimately ends up at. But right now he is still young enough that he needs to play everyday.) 

3) I have to admit that I am shocked that Milone wasn't picked up. I would have been willing to bet a lot of money to the contrary. (I guess I shouldn't quit my day job...). Prior to this, I thought it was completely reasonable to offer him arbitration last off season, and I thought his results thus far were more bad luck than anything else. But it now appears that no other team agrees with me, so I'm readjusting both those priors.  

[TheLeviathan]

Well, let's draw the conclusion from this:

 

We moved one of our best young starters to the bullpen (so we didn't have to spend *gasp* money!) so that we could continue to give a rotation spot to a guy that 29 other teams said wasn't worth giving a roster spot and 4M dollars.

 

Good lord.

[Loosey]

This entire season is a mess and the team is in disarray.  If there ever was a time to adjust (ie correct) poor offseason decisions the time is now.  Here is what I would do if I were in charge: (I have used that same statement at home but my wife always reminds me I am not in charge she is, so as per usual, this is hypothetical).

 

#1) Stretch May out and move him back to rotation

#2) Move Phil Hughes to bullpen for now

#3) Begin shopping Nolasco - Accept most anything in return

#4) Promote Meyer and give him run as a starter even if he fails first few starts

#5) Keep Duffey in Rotation

#6) Test the Kyle Gibson Market - If Swihart can be had for him, do it. 

#7) If #6 doesn't happen run with a 6 man rotation for a few cycles - Odd man out goes back to bullpen of Meyer/Duffey/May - Or two of them and Hughes gets back in rotation

 

New Rotation:

Santana

Berrios

May

Duffey

Meyer

Gibson

 

Next Phase is Offense:  But I have to run to a meeting so will update upon return.

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well, let's draw the conclusion from this:

 

We moved one of our best young starters to the bullpen (so we didn't have to spend *gasp* money!) so that we could continue to give a rotation spot to a guy that 29 other teams said wasn't worth giving a roster spot and 4M dollars.

 

Good lord.

 

so much this.

 

1. Not seeming to understand the value of SP vs RP

2. Not seeming to understand the value of predictive vs non-predictive stats

3. Not seeming to be willing to spend money on the bullpen, or call up anyone from the minors

 

I don't really think 1 and 2 are things, no one in a FO in 2016 can not understand these basic concepts. So, it has to be about:

 

1. Money

2. Completely misjudging May as a SP prospect, and the youth in the minors and how ready they are, two years in a row.

 

For a team that is supposed to be all about scouting......number 2 is a major disconnect between strategy and execution......

[tobi0040]

 

Well, let's draw the conclusion from this:

 

We moved one of our best young starters to the bullpen (so we didn't have to spend *gasp* money!) so that we could continue to give a rotation spot to a guy that 29 other teams said wasn't worth giving a roster spot and 4M dollars.

 

Good lord.

 

You are missing something here Levi.  In the off-season, you need to figure out a way to get a lefty in your rotation at all costs. 

 

You absolutely need a lefty in your rotation as you break camp and keep him there for exactly one month.

 

 

[alarp33]

 

 

#2) Move Phil Hughes to bullpen for now

#3) Begin shopping Nolasco - Accept most anything in return

 

 

 

FIFY

[nicksaviking]

 

This entire season is a mess and the team is in disarray.  If there ever was a time to adjust (ie correct) poor offseason decisions the time is now.  Here is what I would do if I were in charge: (I have used that same statement at home but my wife always reminds me I am not in charge she is, so as per usual, this is hypothetical).

 

#1) Stretch May out and move him back to rotation

#2) Move Phil Hughes to bullpen for now

#3) Begin shopping Nolasco - Accept most anything in return

#4) Promote Meyer and give him run as a starter even if he fails first few starts

#5) Keep Duffey in Rotation

#6) Test the Kyle Gibson Market - If Swihart can be had for him, do it. 

#7) If #6 doesn't happen run with a 6 man rotation for a few cycles - Odd man out goes back to bullpen of Meyer/Duffey/May - Or two of them and Hughes gets back in rotation

 

New Rotation:

Santana

Berrios

May

Duffey

Meyer

Gibson

 

Next Phase is Offense:  But I have to run to a meeting so will update upon return.

 

You better get back from that meeting and post again soon.  Your number of career posts is the same as a very ominous number.

 

I like most of those ideas, I'd hate for none of them to come to fruition due your worship of the dark lord.

 

Edit: Or maybe I have it backwards, perhaps a Faustian deal with the devil can be made if you never return and remain at 666 posts.

[Loosey]

 

This entire season is a mess and the team is in disarray.  If there ever was a time to adjust (ie correct) poor offseason decisions the time is now.  Here is what I would do if I were in charge: (I have used that same statement at home but my wife always reminds me I am not in charge she is, so as per usual, this is hypothetical).

 

#1) Stretch May out and move him back to rotation

#2) Move Phil Hughes to bullpen for now

#3) Begin shopping Nolasco - Accept most anything in return

#4) Promote Meyer and give him run as a starter even if he fails first few starts

#5) Keep Duffey in Rotation

#6) Test the Kyle Gibson Market - If Swihart can be had for him, do it. 

#7) If #6 doesn't happen run with a 6 man rotation for a few cycles - Odd man out goes back to bullpen of Meyer/Duffey/May - Or two of them and Hughes gets back in rotation

 

New Rotation:

Santana

Berrios

May

Duffey

Meyer

Gibson

 

Next Phase is Offense:  But I have to run to a meeting so will update upon return.

Getting off that ominous number now.

 

Ideally on Offense they could add by trading away an area of surplus (Plouffe).  But Plouffe is good enough and one of the few guys who can be a leader that giving him away would not be a great deal in my opinion. 

 

So In my hypothetical world again, I am going to assume Plouffe cannot return fair value and he stays:

 

1) Move Sano to 3rd base

2) I am going catch a lot of flack on this one, but move Plouffe back to SS for this season.

3) Dozier gets traded

4) Polanco to 2nd base

5) Gibson and JRM traded for Swihart - (See first post)

6) Kepler Called up to Play LF

7) Arcia is everyday RF

8) Santana in CF until July 1, then Buxton back

9) Mauer and Park continue in their roles as 1B/DH

 

Basically as I write this I have determined 2 things:

1) Being a GM is hard

2) Being a GM who put himself in a terrible position with un-tradeable contracts and duplicate players is even harder

 

July 1 Lineup

 

Polanco

Mauer

Sano

Park

Arcia

Plouffe

Swihart

Kepler

Buxton

 

Bench

Escobar

Santana

Rosario

Suzuki

 

- I lost Nunez in the shuffle somehow

 

Rotation

Berrios

Duffey

Santana

May

Meyer

 

Pen

Jepsen

Hughes

+5 others

 

Post 667!

 

 

 

[Primetime82]

 

Getting off that ominous number now.

 

Ideally on Offense they could add by trading away an area of surplus (Plouffe).  But Plouffe is good enough and one of the few guys who can be a leader that giving him away would not be a great deal in my opinion. 

 

So In my hypothetical world again, I am going to assume Plouffe cannot return fair value and he stays:

 

1) Move Sano to 3rd base

2) I am going catch a lot of flack on this one, but move Plouffe back to SS for this season.

3) Dozier gets traded

4) Polanco to 2nd base

5) Gibson and JRM traded for Swihart - (See first post)

6) Kepler Called up to Play LF

7) Arcia is everyday RF

8) Santana in CF until July 1, then Buxton back

9) Mauer and Park continue in their roles as 1B/DH

 

Basically as I write this I have determined 2 things:

1) Being a GM is hard

2) Being a GM who put himself in a terrible position with un-tradeable contracts and duplicate players is even harder

 

July 1 Lineup

 

Polanco

Mauer

Sano

Park

Arcia

Plouffe

Swihart

Kepler

Buxton

 

Bench

Escobar

Santana

Rosario

Suzuki

 

- I lost Nunez in the shuffle somehow

 

Rotation

Berrios

Duffey

Santana

May

Meyer

 

Pen

Jepsen

Hughes

+5 others

 

Post 667!

 

 

 

Plouffe at SS? What have you been smoking? The guy is slower then an injured turtle.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Update: the Dodgers optioned FIen to AAA before he ever pitched a game for them.  That remaining option was probably the only reason he was claimed.

[DaveW]

 

Fien was claimed off waivers by the Dodgers.

 

Viable reliever thrown out the window after 13 innings of poor ERA luck. Very poor roster move.

I get the sentiment for sure, Fien certainly could still have some value, but at this stage, baring a miracle, the 2016 Twins are basically "rebuilding", thus a rebuilding team shouldn't be giving playing time to guys who are on one year contracts who have no future with the club. Thus Milone and Fien are more or less gone, and why a contending team like LA picked up Fien as added depth/insurance/for the hell of it.

[tobi0040]

 

I get the sentiment for sure, Fien certainly could still have some value, but at this stage, baring a miracle, the 2016 Twins are basically "rebuilding", thus a rebuilding team shouldn't be giving playing time to guys who are on one year contracts who have no future with the club. Thus Milone and Fien are more or less gone, and why a contending team like LA picked up Fien as added depth/insurance/for the hell of it.

 

Yeah, any OK guy around 30 on a 1 year deal that is cut the better.  Fewer excuses for not bringing up guys like Chargois.  BTW, I think 44 IP in AA kind of covers it for Chargois. 

 

The only beef I have is O'Rourke.  His numbers against lefties are incredible.  At a bare minimum, I would keep him up here and flip him at the deadline to a team making a run. 

[DaveW]

 

 

The only beef I have is O'Rourke.  His numbers against lefties are incredible.  At a bare minimum, I would keep him up here and flip him at the deadline to a team making a run. 

Can't agree enough, it's mind boggling that in 2016 the Twins still can't grasp the value/reasoning/etc behind a true LOOGY.

[stringer bell]

My take on the entire roster shuffle. Centeno likely stays on the 40-man all years as Hicks' (the catcher)replacement. If Murphy figures things out in Rochester, he'll be back soon. Mastro is DFAed when someone is ready to replace him (please let it be future AAA player of the month of May Byron Buxton). Boshers has been effective and might get an audition as a bullpen lefty. Milone will pitch again for the Twins sometime this year.

 

The Twins shouldn't have tendered Fien, but they believed they might contend this year and wanted a veteran to fill that role. Milone is a 4-5th starter on a good team, not someone you build around, but an alright piece. He can't be overexposed and he will have some rough patches. I don't think it was a mistake to tender him and as I said earlier, my guess is that he'll pitch again for the Twins this year.

 

I don't think this team is that far away despite their horrendous record. They need the pieces to fit together better and for a lot of guys to meet expectations.

[alarp33]

 

 Milone is a 4-5th starter on a good team, not someone you build around, but an alright piece. He can't be overexposed and he will have some rough patches. I don't think it was a mistake to tender him and as I said earlier, my guess is that he'll pitch again for the Twins this year.
 

 

I think you'll get plenty of disagreement here. If he was a 4-5 starter on a good team, how did he go unclaimed by 29 teams?  Especially with teams like LAA being decimated by injuries and ineffectiveness in the rotation

[Shaitan]

 

The only beef I have is O'Rourke.  His numbers against lefties are incredible.  At a bare minimum, I would keep him up here and flip him at the deadline to a team making a run. 

 

He cleared waivers. Generally not a sign you could flip him for anything.