Fangraphs (and other national publications) on the Twins

[Taildragger8791]

 

I agree the Twins are probably shockingly lagging behind in several of these behind the scenes type areas.
That was what Mackey said his sources were telling him was the reason why some candidates were l weary of the job.

My question is how did that happen?
Was that Ryan being old school and thinking all these new positions and departments were unnecessary?
Or was it orders from an ownership that has often been accused of cheapness?
Terry, and then Antony have always maintained that ownership has never said no to money. But on the other hand, I find it hard to believe that the Pohlads were begging Ryan to spend more money and he refused.
So, I always struggle with what that balance was- cheap ownership vs Terry falling on the sword for them.
I hope that it was just Terry falling behind the times, rather than cheap ownership. My concern would be that Falvey is expected to continue to operate on the cheap.

 

I would imagine it's the result of having an organization that's so insular and inbred. They rarely made any significant changes to personnel and when they did it was usually from within the Twins family. They stuck with people and personalities that they knew. This limited the influx of new ideas and experiences and placated the change-averse nature of the leadership and ownership.

[BK432]

 

I would imagine it's the result of having an organization that's so insular and inbred. They rarely made any significant changes to personnel and when they did it was usually from within the Twins family. They stuck with people and personalities that they knew. This limited the influx of new ideas and experiences and placated the change-averse nature of the leadership and ownership.

 

I agree that it's most likely that this was the primary reason.

[nicksaviking]

Can we get the Russians to hack the Twins emails? I would really like a behind the scenes look at what was certainly a tight ship and almost just as certainly a style of ship decommissioned by other clubs decades ago. I'm thinking they've been sailing the Pequod this whole time.

[Thrylos]

 

Can we get the Russians to hack the Twins emails? I would really like a behind the scenes look at what was certainly a tight ship and almost just as certainly a style of ship decommissioned by other clubs decades ago. I'm thinking they've been sailing the Pequod this whole time.

 

Pretty presumptuous of you methinks.  They work with memos and faxes.  Have you seen the binder the fired General Manager used to carry with him everywhere?

[Mike Sixel]

Mike Trout
12:19 People are saying that Clint Frazier could be as good as me, do you think there is a shot he could do as much damage as I have done, or are they just saying he is a 5 tool guy?

 

Dave Cameron
12:20 No one is as good as you.
Anyone comparing Clint Frazier to you should go join a Bad Comps Anonymous group with the people who thought Byron Buxton was better than you.

[BK432]

 

Mike Trout
12:19 People are saying that Clint Frazier could be as good as me, do you think there is a shot he could do as much damage as I have done, or are they just saying he is a 5 tool guy?

 

Dave Cameron
12:20 No one is as good as you.
Anyone comparing Clint Frazier to you should go join a Bad Comps Anonymous group with the people who thought Byron Buxton was better than you.

 

Yeah, making a 25 year old who basically just needs to play at replacement level for at least 4 more seasons to be a cinch for the Hall as a comp for anyone is probably a bad idea.

[bluechipper]

 

Mike Trout
12:19 People are saying that Clint Frazier could be as good as me, do you think there is a shot he could do as much damage as I have done, or are they just saying he is a 5 tool guy?

 

Dave Cameron
12:20 No one is as good as you.
Anyone comparing Clint Frazier to you should go join a Bad Comps Anonymous group with the people who thought Byron Buxton was better than you.

Clint Frazier is coming off a .263/.335/.447 (.825) season with 13 steals at AA in 119 games. Solid numbers, but how does such a ridiculous question make its way into  a chat?

 

Also, even mentioning Buxton in this answer is discrediting the sky-high potential that Buxton showed in the minors. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Mike Trout
12:19 People are saying that Clint Frazier could be as good as me, do you think there is a shot he could do as much damage as I have done, or are they just saying he is a 5 tool guy?

 

Dave Cameron
12:20 No one is as good as you.
Anyone comparing Clint Frazier to you should go join a Bad Comps Anonymous group with the people who thought Byron Buxton was better than you.

 

First off, I doubt anyone thought Buxton would be BETTER than Trout. The overly optimistic only thought he would be AS good as Trout. Huge distinction. Probably.

 

And second, come on leave Buxton out of it! He's just starting to get some steam back, lay off!

[Mike Sixel]

Cameron has never been as high on Buxton as others......I'm sure that is PART of why he was mentioned.

 

But, lots of people have said outrageous things about how great Byron will be, imo. 

[Thrylos]

 

Cameron has never been as high on Buxton as others......I'm sure that is PART of why he was mentioned.

 

But, lots of people have said outrageous things about how great Byron will be, imo. 

 

Yeah. Include me in the list of the people who was not as high as everyone else on Buxton.  Rate him second to Sano forever and even below Polanco last time they were both eligible...

[jimmer]

 

Yeah. Include me in the list of the people who was not as high as everyone else on Buxton.  Rate him second to Sano forever and even below Polanco last time they were both eligible...

Looks like the first round gem of that draft went 18th.  I know, it's not possible for that to happen, but that looks to be the case.

[Thrylos]

 

Looks like the first round gem of that draft went 18th.  I know, it's not possible for that to happen, but that looks to be the case.

 

Hard to tell now, give it 5-10 years.   Number 1 overall had better career so far, but they are a bunch of 22 year olds    Also the 85th pick looks like the real deal as well, as far as that pitching class went.

[jimmer]

 

Hard to tell now, give it 5-10 years.   Number 1 overall had better career so far, but they are a bunch of 22 year olds    Also the 85th pick looks like the real deal as well, as far as that pitching class went.

Yeah, I think Seager will be better and likely finish 2nd this year to Bryant for MVP.  I'm a big fan of Correa, but Seager might very well end up better.

[Mike Sixel]

I recall very well being ripped for saying Seager would be better, faster, than Buxton....

[jimmer]

 

I recall very well being ripped for saying Seager would be better, faster, than Buxton....

I got ripped for questioning his signing due to the extremely weak competition he played against in H School.

[Jim]

I asked Keith Law about the Twins hiring Thad Levine in Law's chat today. Response was negative -

"More of the same - another white male prep-school educated guy without experience in the baseball side or the analytics side of the business. I also was surprised that Falvey didn't find someone with a different background from his own to try to complement his resume and fill in missing skills."

[Vanimal46]

 

I asked Keith Law about the Twins hiring Thad Levine in Law's chat today. Response was negative -
"More of the same - another white male prep-school educated guy without experience in the baseball side or the analytics side of the business. I also was surprised that Falvey didn't find someone with a different background from his own to try to complement his resume and fill in missing skills."

Welcome to Twins Daily! Thanks for sharing.

[jimmer]

 

I asked Keith Law about the Twins hiring Thad Levine in Law's chat today. Response was negative -
"More of the same - another white male prep-school educated guy without experience in the baseball side or the analytics side of the business. I also was surprised that Falvey didn't find someone with a different background from his own to try to complement his resume and fill in missing skills."

Oh man, that doesn't sound good.  Now, we'll probably see Law get some kind of thrashing for those comments.

[Doomtints]

This seems to be Law's 'story of the day' -- all these pesky Ivy League guys in front offices.

 

Law's headline today:  "Every major front-office hire of the last 13 months has been male, white, and likely Ivy League. Mike Hazen is the latest. It's on MLB to fix it."

[Vanimal46]

Every sport is a copycat league. The hot trend because of Theo Epstein and his analytics bros is to hire that profile. If the Cubs were run by County Fair carnies, teams would search for the best at the great MN get together.  

[Craig Arko]

 

Every sport is a copycat league. The hot trend because of Theo Epstein and his analytics bros is to hire that profile. If the Cubs were run by County Fair carnies, teams would search for the best at the great MN get together.  

GM on a stick.

[nicksaviking]

 

I recall very well being ripped for saying Seager would be better, faster, than Buxton....

 

Buxton is waaaaaay faster.

[nicksaviking]

 

I asked Keith Law about the Twins hiring Thad Levine in Law's chat today. Response was negative -
"More of the same - another white male prep-school educated guy without experience in the baseball side or the analytics side of the business. I also was surprised that Falvey didn't find someone with a different background from his own to try to complement his resume and fill in missing skills."

 

 

This seems to be Law's 'story of the day' -- all these pesky Ivy League guys in front offices.

 

Law's headline today:  "Every major front-office hire of the last 13 months has been male, white, and likely Ivy League. Mike Hazen is the latest. It's on MLB to fix it."

 

These kind of seem like two different issues. I'd be concerned for the Twins if Levine isn't up for the job because of his lack of appropriate background and I'd be concerned if Falvey is just going to hire clones of himself. Other reports made it sound like that wasn't the plan though and there are other targets as well. We'll have to see.

 

Then there is the diversity issue. I'm all for MLB doing something to try to get more diversity into these positions. While the Twins could have/should have done more on their own to address the issue, being a white, Ivy League male doesn't mean Falvey or Levine won't be assets to the club.

 

[jimmer]

 

These kind of seem like two different issues. I'd be concerned for the Twins if Levine isn't up for the job because of his lack of appropriate background and I'd be concerned if Falvey is just going to hire clones of himself. Other reports made it sound like that wasn't the plan though and there are other targets as well. We'll have to see.

 

Then there is the diversity issue. I'm all for MLB doing something to try to get more diversity into these positions. While the Twins could have/should have done more on their own to address the issue, being a white, Ivy League male doesn't mean Falvey or Levine won't be assets to the club.

Yeah, not sure when being Ivy League was a negative, but times they are a changing.  Why can't we get someone from a real school where smart people come from, like University of Alabama.  Go 'Bama, Roll Tide! :-)

[Taildragger8791]

 

This seems to be Law's 'story of the day' -- all these pesky Ivy League guys in front offices.

 

Law's headline today:  "Every major front-office hire of the last 13 months has been male, white, and likely Ivy League. Mike Hazen is the latest. It's on MLB to fix it."

 

Alright, I'll bite. So the current hot trend is to target candidates with premier academic backgrounds? What is the demographic of those who graduate from the most prestigious universities with excellent performance, that then choose to go into baseball scouting and front offices instead of taking a high-paying job elsewhere? My out-of-thin-air guess is it's going to be almost entirely male and overwhelmingly white. Not many people, particularly ethnic minorities, have the luxury combined with the financial freedom & passion to turn down great job offers elsewhere while they go spend 10 to 30 years trying to climb the baseball front office ladder.

 

The only way you're going to turn it around is to proactively reach out and foster interest within those underrepresented groups. Go recruit women & minorities from those schools to get them into your organization early on so down the road there will be a more diverse pool to select from.

 

Maybe I'm being naïve or giving too much benefit of the doubt. I just have a hard time assuming that this is a case of overt racism and intentionally denying opportunities to equally qualified women/minority employees.

[Mike Sixel]

Plus they often come up as interns, low or unpaid, interns.....less wealthy people can't afford to that....

 

It isn't that being from an ivy league school is bad/wrong/evil (I think KLAW is from one, actually), it is that exclusively hiring from a tiny pool of candidates can be less effective (and unfair).

[Thegrin]

MLB is a mans game.  We don't need no women adding tears to the agenda.

[jimmer]

 

 (I think KLAW is from one, actually),

Double major from Harvard, graduated with honors.

[Doomtints]

 

Alright, I'll bite. So the current hot trend is to target candidates with premier academic backgrounds? What is the demographic of those who graduate from the most prestigious universities with excellent performance, that then choose to go into baseball scouting and front offices instead of taking a high-paying job elsewhere? My out-of-thin-air guess is it's going to be almost entirely male and overwhelmingly white. Not many people, particularly ethnic minorities, have the luxury combined with the financial freedom & passion to turn down great job offers elsewhere while they go spend 10 to 30 years trying to climb the baseball front office ladder.

 

The only way you're going to turn it around is to proactively reach out and foster interest within those underrepresented groups. Go recruit women & minorities from those schools to get them into your organization early on so down the road there will be a more diverse pool to select from.

 

Maybe I'm being naïve or giving too much benefit of the doubt. I just have a hard time assuming that this is a case of overt racism and intentionally denying opportunities to equally qualified women/minority employees.

 

 

:shrug:  

 

No clue.  Having an education is a good thing, and it's not like they are hiring these guys right out of college.  These are experienced people we are talking about who have proven track records.

Keith Law is Ivy League educated too, by the way.  He certainly has benefited from the same things he is griping about others having benefited from.  Frankly, this rant from him seems to be coming out of left field.  
 

[Taildragger8791]

 

:shrug:  

 

No clue.  Having an education is a good thing, and it's not like they are hiring these guys right out of college.  These are experienced people we are talking about who have proven track records.

Keith Law is Ivy League educated too, by the way.  He certainly has benefited from the same things he is griping about others having benefited from.  Frankly, this rant from him seems to be coming out of left field.  
 

 

I know they aren't hired right of college to assistant GM. My point was they go from college to low-level front office, probably getting paid well below what they could get in the general job market with their background. That weeds out anyone who doesn't have the passion for baseball and doesn't have the economic freedom to be underpaid for many years. This is where your pool of eventual GM candidates is coming from right now.

 

I assume at some point somebody will break the mold and change their hiring profile, and as soon as they prove successful everyone will copy that and maybe we'll see more diversity that way. But as long as the profile is what it is, it won't change without going out and recruiting for those low level positions and probably offering better pay in the process. The problem with that is you might wind up getting less passionate baseball people, which could wind up with less effective front offices.