Twins Want Hunter Back

[HitInAPinch]

Torii Hunter has been a warrior for the Twins.  Are we forgetting who was part of the OF rotation early this year?  Jordan Schaeffer and Shane Robinson.  I do, however, like Robinson as a 4th outfielder. 

 

Hunter, like many other Twins players, is just burning out.  Pretty typical for a team that hasn't had a sniff of the playoffs in 4 years.  Buxton and Kepler will be in the MiLB unless something drastic happens in Spring Training.  I haven't seen Buxton in the starting lineup in a few days. 

 

I would retain Hunter as 4th OF, DH and pinch hitter.  I think he'd be very successful.  As for the $10 mil they paid for him last year:  meh.  Not my money.

[Halsey Hall]

Anyone listen to TR this morning?  If so, you know this is just a bunch of hot air. 

[DaveW]

The worst thing that could happen to the twins:

 

Miss the playoffs by one game this year, Ryan decides they have "the team" to do it next year.

Resign Hunter

Resign Pelfrey

Fail to upgrade the pen or catcher in any meaningful way.

 

Because hunter is resigned, they trade Arcia or Vargas for next to nothing.

 

Hunter should not be back as a "4th" OF. He would be ok as a 5th OF I guess but I'm not sure the Twins need a 5th OF at the beginning of the year. I'd prefer if he comes back it's on a minor league deal, provides org depth etc if buxton isn't immediately ready or someone gets hurt.

 

Under no scenario should they bring him back as a regular or as a 4th OF.

[nytwinsfan]

Uggh. It is not that I think Hunter hasn't contributed this year, either on the field or in the clubhouse, but the MOST IMPORTANT thing is that he not take ABs from Rosario, Hicks, Buxton and Kepler come June, 2016. And I think this just obviously sets him up to do that. Maybe the plan is to trade Plouffe, and have Hunter play OF until June when Buxton and Kepler are up full-time and then play DH. Even that I would vote against, but that would be best case scenario. If Hunter is playing right field on June 1, 2016, however, I will cry myself to sleep.

[nytwinsfan]

Anyone listen to TR this morning?  If so, you know this is just a bunch of hot air.

Please elaborate!

[Hrbowski]

He would be nice as a Giambi type coming of the bench and maybe around 70 starts.

[Monkeypaws]

Is there still such a thing as a player-coach?

 

I'd like to keep him around, but not as a full-time player.

 

If he could be rostered as a coach, but still play on occasion, that would be ducky. He obviously will believe after this season that he has something to offer on the field, and who could blame him?

 

He has been an upgrade.

[Captain Hindsight]

I can at least understand why they would want him back another season. Out of the options we have, Hicks, Roasrio, Buxton, Kepler and Arcia, none are established and it would not be surprising to see any of them struggle next year. Also, Hunter has been a great influence on the young guys. That being said, I would prefer giving the young players a chance to succeed or fail and live with the consequences, but it is hardly an outrage that they would consider bringing Hunter back given the uncertainty with current options.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Kepler? We're not ever going to see Arcia again until he hits 30 home runs for the Tigers after we trade him for Randy Wolf.

Possibly true, but he is brutal defensively. And baseball is played on both sides of the field. I guess he would have to be permanent DH to be on any ML team. 

[mikelink45]

Let's resign Rod Carew

 

[spinowner]

2016 is when the outfield of the future should become the outfield of the present. Four or five of these players: Arcia, Buxton, Hicks, Kepler and Rosario. And maybe Robinson to placehold for the first part of the season if one or two of them needs a bit of AAA.

[DaveW]

Thats a good point, I forgot about Kepler. There just isn't any room for Hunter on this roster unless it's a minor league deal or a one year 1 mil deal with the expectation that he could be released once better options are ready.

 

His best bet might be to goto a team in need of a corner of bat for 2016. Padres, A's, etc Come to mind

 

Hopefully the twins win the World Series and he can retire on top

[jimbo92107]

Maybe as a player/coach they could sign Torii Hunter to a one year deal. I assume the Twins will promote Max Kepler as the 4th OF in a rotation, then use him to sub at 1st base. That leaves not much playing time for 40 year old Hunter. If the young guys get hot, Torii could spend a lot of time cheering from the bench.

[Physics Guy]

I could absolutely see the Twins doing this.  I suspect they feel that Buxton needs more time in AAA next year and I just don't see them bringing up Kepler until he spends at least two months in AAA.  This is really the first year where Kepler has played a full season and lived up to his potential.  Does anybody really think Ryan will allow him to start the season with the Twins?

 

That being said, I do not want them to sign Torri for another season.

[Shane Wahl]

That this is being entertained by anybody is beyond my comprehension.

[jimmer]

 

That this is being entertained by anybody is beyond my comprehension.

Reminds me of the Pelfrey situation.  Bad idea to sign him in the first place, then TR doubled down.

[Jham]

 

Reminds me of the Pelfrey situation.  Bad idea to sign him in the first place, then TR doubled down.

 

How are these even remotely close to the same thing?  Pelfrey was awful, then injured, then we resigned him (not a horrible signing as it turned out).  Hunter has at least played to expectations and added a lot to this team and to this season.  Perhaps some people would have rather watched the Twins fade from contention in June while watching Danny Ortiz and Ozzie Arcia play themselves out of the majors with not but the drama of whether Buxton can finish the season above Butera line to follow the last few weeks.  

 

Those who can't appreciate the season Hunter has put together at 39/40 just seem cynical and upset that Terry Ryan was more right than they were.  Hunter has given me no indication that resigning him should be 100% ruled out.  

 

If Hunter retires or goes to another team we get nothing.  If we traded Rosario, Hicks, Kepler, or Buxton, we could potentially get a huge return.  If we did trade one of these guys to upgrade the roster or the farm system, I'd feel more comfortable having Hunter back.  For that reason alone, the notion shouldn't be outright dismissed as many posters are doing.

[DJSim22]

It all depends on the price and the at bats.  Everyone bitches about not having a bench, his bat is still good enough to keep pitchers honest. 

[jimmer]

 

How are these even remotely close to the same thing?  Pelfrey was awful, then injured, then we resigned him (not a horrible signing as it turned out).  Hunter has at least played to expectations and added a lot to this team and to this season.  Perhaps some people would have rather watched the Twins fade from contention in June while watching Danny Ortiz and Ozzie Arcia play themselves out of the majors with not but the drama of whether Buxton can finish the season above Butera line to follow the last few weeks.  

 

Those who can't appreciate the season Hunter has put together at 39/40 just seem cynical and upset that Terry Ryan was more right than they were.  Hunter has given me no indication that resigning him should be 100% ruled out.  

 

If Hunter retires or goes to another team we get nothing.  If we traded Rosario, Hicks, Kepler, or Buxton, we could potentially get a huge return.  If we did trade one of these guys to upgrade the roster or the farm system, I'd feel more comfortable having Hunter back.  For that reason alone, the notion shouldn't be outright dismissed as many posters are doing.

Hunter has given us a 0.6 WAR for the season. Whatever he's added to the winning he also has subtracted in the losing.  0-1 WAR is in the scrub category of production.  That's horrible. Is that the expectation you had that he's lived up to? We should applaud the signing and give Ryan a pat on the back?

 

And why does his age matter one bit?  Oh, he played okay for an old guy? Is that what the expectations should be?  Or should we compare him to, you know, other starters at his position?  Terry Ryan was not right about this signing, regardless of the narrative so many cling to in the absence of actual overall production.  He was a 0.0 WAR player and 39 in 2014.  Then we sign him for 10.5M AND give him a no trade clause? At his age, we shouldn't have expected any kind of real bounce-back and by giving him the no trade clause we couldn't even take advantage of his good start and trade him.. Re-signing him SHOULD be completely ruled out. It won't be, but it should.

 

So yes, I think that the Hunter signing was horrible like the Pelfrey one was, since both performed poorly in their one year signing, and I think if we re-sign him it would be just as bad of a decision as re-signing Pelfrey.  Especially since the Pelfrey re-signing hindered the development of at least one starter (May), just like re-signing Hunter would hinder the development of young OFs (take your pick).

 

If this hadn't been an ex-very good Twin player, but rather some old declining skilled player who had never played for us before, this probably wouldn't even be an argument for many. If that was the case, the signing would have been panned almost universally for the poor decision it was when it happened and now by all but the most dedicated people who give the benefit of all doubt to the FO.

[Platoon]

I don't think it's in Hunter's DNA to sit happily on the bench as a fourth OF. There have been rumblings already about the pine time Molitor has given him. His ego is way too large for that. As for the Twins signing him as a fill in until Buxton and or Kepler get some time next spring in AAA, and then trading/releasing him? Please, that is not going to happen if TR is in charge. As a mentor? Let's see. He can take credit for Hicks and Rosario. But then he has to take credit for Vargas, Buxton, and Arcia also. Mentoring is B/S. The Twins are going to take a no brainer roster cleansing decision and screw it up. Torri is coming back, and one, if not two of Buxton, Kepler, or Arcia is not. It's the "Twins Way"

[spinowner]

 

 If Hunter retires or goes to another team we get nothing.  If we traded Rosario, Hicks, Kepler, or Buxton, we could potentially get a huge return.  If we did trade one of these guys to upgrade the roster or the farm system, I'd feel more comfortable having Hunter back.  For that reason alone, the notion shouldn't be outright dismissed as many posters are doing.

Even if we get a good return is it worth going through that just to put a 41-year-old reserve outfielder on the roster for one season? I think not.

[Major League Ready]

Please elaborate!

Kris Attaberry asked him directly if they had plans for Hunter next year.  Ryan replied that this was a topic they had not discussed internally and that the option to resign him would be taken up in the offseason.  

 

Personally, I would invest those Abs in our young players a shot but I also don’t want to completely ignore the value of leadership and measure him only by WAR.  He is 20th in the MLs for RFs.  1/10 better than Matt Kemp which was an option suggested here that would have costs us prospects.  The average number of wins predicted by TD followers was roughly 74.  How much did Hunters leadership contribute?  How much has Hunter’s presence helped with Aaron Hicks.  He looks like a different player.   He sure has shown them what a 2 strike approach looks like. 

 

 With Hick’s improved play, they may decide to give Buxton time in AAA and it would be hard to argue his bat could not use more time to develop in the minors and he is probably not the best option to start the year if the goal is to contend next year.  If Buxton is not here that changes the OF scenario substantially.  Now you have Hicks, Rosario, Kepler, Robinson, Arcia, & Ortiz.  If the Cubs did not break camp with Bryant, The Twins surely are not going to break camp with Kepler.  If 2016 goes like 2015 he will be up after the Super 2 date.  I would love for Arcia to be a good option but he has been absolutely dreadful.  I would not give up on him but I also certainly would not count on him.  So, I don’t think we are jam packed with options in the OF, at least not to start the season.

[Jham]

 

Even if we get a good return is it worth going through that just to put a 41-year-old reserve outfielder on the roster for one season? I think not.

 

What?  Keeping Hunter is not the reason to trade a young outfielder (or Plouffe for that matter) and improve the roster or farm system.  Does Hunter make the team better?  Arguable. I just don't see how losing Hunter makes us clearly better than say dealing Rosario for value and bringing up Kepler.  I know Hunter is super unpopular on these blogs, and he's probably only fueled that by having a productive season and proving his detractors wrong.  But please be open to ideas about improving the roster beyond, "Well we'll just call up player X and he'll hit 21 HR and drive in 80 for us as a rookie." 

[tobi0040]

Are the Twins aware that you can bring Hunter back AND get his amazing leadership without signing him as a player?

[Jham]

 

Hunter has given us a 0.6 WAR for the season. Whatever he's added to the winning he also has subtracted in the losing.  0-1 WAR is in the scrub category of production.  That's horrible. Is that the expectation you had that he's lived up to? We should applaud the signing and give Ryan a pat on the back?

 

And why does his age matter one bit?  Oh, he played okay for an old guy? Is that what the expectations should be?  Or should we compare him to, you know, other starters at his position?  Terry Ryan was not right about this signing, regardless of the narrative so many cling to in the absence of actual overall production.  He was a 0.0 WAR player and 39 in 2014.  Then we sign him for 10.5M AND give him a no trade clause? At his age, we shouldn't have expected any kind of real bounce-back and by giving him the no trade clause we couldn't even take advantage of his good start and trade him.. Re-signing him SHOULD be completely ruled out. It won't be, but it should.

 

So yes, I think that the Hunter signing was horrible like the Pelfrey one was, since both performed poorly in their one year signing, and I think if we re-sign him it would be just as bad of a decision as re-signing Pelfrey.  Especially since the Pelfrey re-signing hindered the development of at least one starter (May), just like re-signing Hunter would hinder the development of young OFs (take your pick).

 

If this hadn't been an ex-very good Twin player, but rather some old declining skilled player who had never played for us before, this probably wouldn't even be an argument for many. If that was the case, the signing would have been panned almost universally for the poor decision it was when it happened and now by all but the most dedicated people who give the benefit of all doubt to the FO.

 

WAR isn't a really meaningful stat in my mind.  Every team, every roster is constructed differently.  Hunter allowing some singles to drop isn't really that damaging compared with say Hicks playing outs into doubles or triples getting turned around (which is why outfield d IS important).  But in the real world, Hunter doesn't have to be better than replacement, just better than Shane Robinson, Arcia, and apparently Danny Ortiz is now in the mix.  Hunter is solid offensively, and plays in front of a huge wall in right.  He seems to be handling a reduced role and more rest fantastically.  And yes experience and leadership do matter.

 

I also find the notion that fans only defend or want to resign Hunter because he's a long-time Twin and fan favorite pretty offensive.  You can always fall back on that, so it pretty much amounts to a cheap shot.  You're a knowledgeable fan.  I'm sure you can consider a number of scenarios, some which you may not prefer, where it would make some sense to keep Hunter at least as a security blanket or depth. 

 

[Boom Boom]

.6 WAR... but leading the majors in Clubhouse Loosening Factor (CLF).

[Boom Boom]

I mean... just look at how successful four years of being led by Joe "Der Kommissar" Mauer and his Fun Police was...

[Shane Wahl]

Defenders of the notion are aware, right, that he ages a year between 2015 and 2016? He is having a nice home run hitting season. And he has value as a bench coach to be hired immediately. As a player? You have seriously got to be kidding me. All signs indicate a negative WAR next year. Sub .700 OPS.

 

[Mike Sixel]

If he added 4-6 wins by his leadership, that makes him worth approximately $35-45MM dollars on the open market......anyone think anyone would pay him that? Do people really think he's responsible for that many extra wins? That would make him one of the 5-10 most valuable players in all of the majors......And let's not derail this into another anti WAR thread, please. His leadership and mentoring might or might not have helped some players, but as pointed out above, does that mean it hurt the players that aren't as good as we thought, or does he only get the positive credit? I think that's a fair question.

 

It's about roster decisions. Does anyone think they'd cut him next year, if they signed him? Once he's here, he's very likely on the 25 man roster all year. Even if they start Buxton in the minors next year, what happens when he's ready to come up? They cut the 3/4 OF that isn't Hunter? Then what happens when Kepler is ready, and he will be ready? Will they keep both Hunter and Arcia on the roster, meaning there isn't room for a defensive substitution for whichever of them starts the game? What happens when/if he hits like he has most of the months, and they bench him, will his personality really handle that?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

.6 WAR... but leading the majors in Clubhouse Loosening Factor (CLF).

"Clubhouse Loosening Factor" sounds like some kind of prescription medication. I hope Torii is not using his Medicare benefits to distribute drugs!